I whipped this up in photoshop really quick and wanted to get your guys's ideas of this. I know their are some suspension know-it-alls here (Pig, etc.). This is for the front axle. Now think radius arms, but the lower link will have bushings on the upper control arm and axle mount (obviously). The mounts on the axle are parallel vertically on the axle, like Ford radius arm mounts. (does that make sense?). My friend brought this idea up and I'm not sure if it would work to well. I think the it would be better if the upper arm was the lower arm with the smaller arm brancing off it. But I like this idea because it gives you more clearance and better control arm angles. Obviously you need a track bar for this setup.

So, tell me what you think, and if youve seen this before?

That has been my plan for a little while now.

You get max clearance with it that way but you will be compromising strength and reliabilty on a stock TJ/XJ housing as they have a little dinky UCA axle bushing. Alot depends on where the arm mounts to the chassis as to how it will effect evrything else.

I also plan on only running 1 upper on the passenger's side if that helps.

Youve just drawn a rubicon express long arm, but its mounted upside down.

Ken

Originally posted by kwrangln
Youve just drawn a rubicon express long arm, but its mounted upside down.

Ken

By god I think your right!!! :eek:

Or maybe just maybe he flipped an existing image of an RE longarm front and mearly added the axle mounts.



The world may never know...

looks a bit like this?
http://www.vintagebronco.com/coby/twisterarm/MVC-008S.JPG

Yup, just looks like a fabricated (rather than cast/forged) radius arm to me.
Also looks a whole lot like a certain brand of wristed radius arms.
Also looks a whole lot like *my* radius arms (but inverted).
Also looks like an RE long arm kit.
Also looks like a Duff EB long arm kit.

Bottom line, it does work.

The way you've drawn it gives better ground clearance.
Flipping it over gives a smooth sliding surface down the whole arm so there's nothing hanging down to stop you cruisin' along a rock with it. Also gives better frame clearance (might be more of an issue with some setups).

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
Yup, just looks like a fabricated (rather than cast/forged) radius arm to me.
Also looks a whole lot like a certain brand of wristed radius arms.
Also looks a whole lot like *my* radius arms (but inverted).
Also looks like an RE long arm kit.
Also looks like a Duff EB long arm kit.

Bottom line, it does work.

The way you've drawn it gives better ground clearance.
Flipping it over gives a smooth sliding surface down the whole arm so there's nothing hanging down to stop you cruisin' along a rock with it. Also gives better frame clearance (might be more of an issue with some setups).

Kind of what I was thinking.

Thanks guys. :D

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
Flipping it over gives a smooth sliding surface down the whole arm so there's nothing hanging down to stop you cruisin' along a rock with it.This is the reason I'd run them opposite of the top picture. Bottom line is that you WILL find something to smack your control arms on eventually. I'd rather have them as nice smooth sliders, personally.

Originally posted by TNToy
This is the reason I'd run them opposite of the top picture. Bottom line is that you WILL find something to smack your control arms on eventually. I'd rather have them as nice smooth sliders, personally.

If that becomes a problem I could always make new ones. :D

Check out Mike Shaffers front set up. Or Belly draggers. :D

Originally posted by Jason R
If that becomes a problem I could always make new ones. :D

Just beware... it'll never become a problem, until you're already hosed. I bent one of my rear arms to 90 degrees (first generation) on Indy... close to the end of the trail, but still about four winch-line lengths away, and in the middle, no winch anchors. Doh!

At least, that's how I justify night 'wheeling non-parts-pimping fun-run costs to the IRS. It's all R&D time, so that customers don't get parts that I bent. :)

What about running radius arms in the rear too? Anyone doing that? How would that handle?

Originally posted by Bushwhacker
What about running radius arms in the rear too? Anyone doing that? How would that handle?

Go over to Maryville Il. and see Gary at GDS 4x4, he has a bronco set up with radius arms front and rear. Good guy to do buisness with.

Ken

Originally posted by Bushwhacker
What about running radius arms in the rear too? Anyone doing that? How would that handle?

Doing it. Doesn't flex worth a half a rat-turd, tho. :(

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/trails/indy/080502/MVC-001S.JPG

Handles OK, drives kinda like a burnt marshmallow. I suppose if I put air in the tires, it'd help. (they're 44's, BTW) :)

Originally posted by Bushwhacker
What about running radius arms in the rear too? Anyone doing that? How would that handle?

I run front and rear custom radius arms and they flex great. Looking from behind the buggy my radius arms can rotate a full 360deg if the axel wasnt attached. the long arm rotates inside of its self. As know you will have to run a pannard bar on each axel to keep it under ya, as far as driving down the road it drives great. My next buggy will have the same set up.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper


Doing it. Doesn't flex worth a half a rat-turd, tho. :(

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/trails/indy/080502/MVC-001S.JPG

Handles OK, drives kinda like a burnt marshmallow. I suppose if I put air in the tires, it'd help. (they're 44's, BTW) :)

Got any pics???:flipoff2:

so has anyone tried this design yet?? Thought of it and of course searched and found it here.

Originally posted by snowchucker
so has anyone tried this design yet?? Thought of it and of course searched and found it here.

Ask Toby Lavender he has been Running it for years
seems to be holding up fine for him TTC and alot of trail wheeling
search Mr Twister or Lucky Peirre

you might find him then

LOL

Adam,

Jason,

If i was going to build a radius arm I'd build it like your picture. I've definately seen it before, sorry.

CJ

Originally posted by Bushwhacker
What about running radius arms in the rear too? Anyone doing that? How would that handle?

Massive anti-squat (if you´re lifted at all) and quirky handling under accel and braking (if you´re wristed). Other than that, a simple, compact and reliable design.

FWIW, mine´s being ripped out now, being replaced by F/R 4-links.......

HTH,

just curious what type of ends are you guys running on your radius arms.

Originally posted by billj


Massive anti-squat (if you´re lifted at all) and quirky handling under accel and braking (if you´re wristed). Other than that, a simple, compact and reliable design.

FWIW, mine´s being ripped out now, being replaced by F/R 4-links.......

HTH,

beat me too it, flex was great but the AS was so bad the axle drove right under the rig on a steep climb and ripped everything apart...

How bout ditchin' the trackbar and triangulating the radius arm?

No offense people, but is this a REALLY old thread? I can't beleieve that we are having this discussion. I mean, this suspension design is like 400 years old! :) It works good in the front because it causes a massive amount of squat to bring the front end down on hill climbs. In the rear it sucks because it causes a massive amount of anti-squat. (I found this out the hard way using a similar design.)

Here is Campbell Enterprises version of it that eliminates track bars:

http://www.campbellent.com/full%20size%20pics/shop%20pics0005.jpg

It was on a buggy of their like, 4 years ago. Ford had it figured out in the 60's, I think it was.

As far as your 2-piece design is concerned, you could make it all one piece welded together and it would work the same only with less bushings.

J. J.

yes that eliminates the trackbar, but it still has links with the sole purpose of locating the axle laterally. in a triagulated 3 or 4 link the same links that control lateral movement also control axle rotation. seems like it would be way easier to just use a trackbar.

the way to triangulate radius arms would be to make a "Y" stlye like the RE arms but have the uppers connect from the middle of the lowers to the center of the axle. this would in theory locate the axle laterally, but it would have to be an incredibly stout and rigid system to actually be effective, I doubt it could be made to work well with the stuff we do, and if possible would definitely require full-hydro steering.

Originally posted by BrettM
the way to triangulate radius arms would be to make a "Y" stlye like the RE arms but have the uppers connect from the middle of the lowers to the center of the axle.

BTDT, didn't work so well. It wants to keep the axle square to the radius arms all the time, which doesn't work so well with a system that has a lot of flex (flex will translate into roll steer to some degree) so it tends to bind up. Works great in straight up-n-down movement.

I've got a couple different issues with the locating arm the way you've pictured it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1047873

First off is clearance. The way the bracket is shown, it hangs below the axle tube, something to be avoided. Raising it up changes how force will be distributed. With the full length bar on the bottom, force on the axle is transferred in a strait line to the frame mount, strong. The way it is shown, the solid top bar where it meets the housing will become the fulcrum, with the axle trying to pivot at this point. The only thing keeping the axle housing from rotating is the half length link which will transfer all rotating force from impact to the center of the top link trying to bend it.


Did I explain that right?

I know this is an old post, and know I replied to it in the first place, just a different take on things.

Another thing to consider is that if you are not using a high pinion front diff, your driveshaft may become the slider or lowpoint with that design.