sh996 wanted me to post these for comment....

sh996 hope these are the ones you wanted:)

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Looks plenty strong copla questions though

1)damn look at the angle on that panhard!!! .. I mean .. damn!!!

2) are you using JJ on both ends ? or just Jonnie on one and bushing on the other.. seems like there would be too much misalignment with Double JJ but what do I know?

Bill,
Thanks a bunch for the post, and the pics are the ones I wanted.

Sarcastro,
I used a JJ at the front of the center link and a normal rubber mount at the rear. I was wondering if that was a wise choice, glad you think so. The lower links have rubber mounts at both ends, was wondering if JJ at the frame would have been better? All three links have a "wristed joint" in them allowing a twisting motion and room to lengthen/shorten them a bit if necessary. I do need to lengthen the center link about 1/4" to improve the pinion angle and the castor angle, and get the lower coil mounts level.

As for the angle on the Panhard, the axle is hanging free from the coils (its not actually sitting on the jackstands), so once the weight of the truck is on the front coils it will settle down a couple inches and lessen the angle. Also, I do know I need to lengthen it about 1/2" to get the coils to sit directly under the upper mounts which should also lessen the angle a tiny bit more. If the angle is still too severe I'll just redo the mount on the axle to raise it up more. I guestimated the draglink angle compared to the panhard angle with the weight of the truck on the coils and it was pretty close to being equal. Of course, that was with everything tack-welded in place, so who knows what I may have messed up when I welded it all together :D

Thanks for the input, it helps a bunch!!

Can't wait to get the shocks mounted and the axle put back together so I can test it out!!

Looks like you're using all j joints. I think it should work just fine the way that you have it. Have you used a floor jack to run it through a full range of motion yet? I'm anxious to see if it binds. Looks like you are staying busy.

I tried once with the floor jack, but couldn't get it to work very well. I'm gonna try to get the axle back together then take it to a loading dock close by to test it out before I mount the shocks so that I can get them mounted at the right height and to check for any binding in the links, and most important to see if the center link will clear the oil pan :eek:

Questions:
Why did you put the upper link in the center, and not on the driver's side directly above the lower mount? Gets it out of the way of the oil pan, and works pretty much the same.

What is the vertical seperation between the upp and lower link mounts? I'm guessing about 5 inches? The further apart (vertically) the upper and lower mounts are, the less stress the links see from torque.

I don't think there would have been any problem with JJs at both ends, but it's also probably not nessecary. Certainly not with the pivoting links. Personally I plan on a radius arm on the drivers side, a single link on the other with a panhard - and JJs at the frame end of the links with bushings at the axle end.

JJs are expensive, bushings are cheaper. Keeping the JJs out of the mud will help them live longer, so I'm goona mount them up high.

TNTToy:
My old rig has Schaffer's kit (which works GREAT), but I wanted to try a different set-up for the new sammy....somewhat for curiousity and somewhat to see if it would work better. I thought something set-up similar to the rear 3 link would be neat and a little different. I've only seen a couple other rigs with similiar 3 link set-ups, and they seemed to work well (Brent's Crustacean is one). So, those are the reasons for the center link :)

My old sammy has about 4.5 inches separation in upper and lower links. The new one is closer to 6 inches (I'm at work and can't get definate figures). I would have liked to have had a little more distance to lessen the effects of torque like you said, but it didn't quite work out that way :D

The set-up your planning sounds pretty cool, and I've seen several rigs run that way very succesfully. My old sammy has JJ's at the frame end and rubber bushings at the axle. Good luck with it!

Originally posted by TNToy
Questions:
I plan on a radius arm on the drivers side, a single link on the other with a panhard - and JJs at the frame end of the links with bushings at the axle end.



on the long arm type suspensions we have built, we have always put the upper links on the pumpkin side, which is the pass side on your toy, to keep the pinion ujoint angle in check during articulation. FYI----brad

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TNToy
[B]Questions:
Why did you put the upper link in the center, and not on the driver's side directly above the lower mount? Gets it out of the way of the oil pan, and works pretty much the same.




isn't the space you're referring to occupied by the header pipe and cat? (on a stock 1.3 or 1.6 transplant)

UZI 9mm:

I think TNToy is refering to a ladder style like Schaffer's kit where the upper link sits directly ontop the lower link which in turn runs under the frame, so the header/pipe wouldn't really interfere.

TNToy:
All the radius arm/long arm styles I've seen have been on the passenger side vice the driver side as well, like BRBx4 said.

You should fix that panhard angle before you do anything, otherwise as I am sure you know you're gonna have a butt load of lateral axle movement. Quick question about the link separation with your old setup. Was it shaffer's kit that only had 4.5" of separation? That's just crazy!!

Originally posted by sh996
All the radius arm/long arm styles I've seen have been on the passenger side vice the driver side as well, like BRBx4 said. Yeah. Sorry, I meant PASSENGER side.

Originally posted by sh996
Isn't the space you're referring to occupied by the header pipe and cat? (on a stock 1.3 or 1.6 transplant)Umm... ok. Now your link location makes sense. Such are the hazards of questioning the setup on a vehicle you don't own. I knew there was probably a reason you put the top link under the oilpan, but I didn't know what it was... ;)

Nuttzack:

I just went out and measured the vertical difference between the upper and lower links on Schaffers kit (my old sammy) and it is actually about 3.75". On the new sammy my vertical difference between the center link and the lower links was actually about 7.25", so the torque effect shouldn't be too bad.

Also, if you read my earlier post concerning the angle on the panhard bar you would have caught that in the picture the springs are hanging from the frame, so once the weight of the truck is on the springs it will compress about 3" or so. So, the angle won't be nearly that bad. But again, if it is I will redo the mount on the axle housing to lessen the angle.

Thanks for the input, it reinforces that I do need to double check the angle when its all together and sitting on the wheels again.

if you read my earlier post concerning the angle on the panhard bar you would have caught that in the picture the springs are hanging from the frame, so once the weight of the truck is on the springs it will compress about 3" or so

Ooops, guess I missed that, but that's good to hear for your sake at least. Got any more pics of your rig. HOw bout some specs. Please tell me you lengthend it.

Nuttsack,

This is my 6th samurai, my first one was bought in '97. I seem to buy one, modify it, change my mind about the set-up, buy a new one to try something different, and sell the old one :D

This one has toy axles, 4:38 gears, lock-rights F/R, 6:1 T-case (with a Forrest Off-road bucket), 35x13.5 M/T Claws, warn xd8000i multi-mount set-up, and the rest is still in the planning stages. I still run a stock motor with K&N filter, header, and 2" exhaust. I've never really had too much trouble with keeping the engine stock. It does have EFI.

Front coils are about done, it'll have Pro-Comp MX6 shocks, roll-cage, probably end up with 1" wheel spacers or new rims, the rear will be 1/4 elliptical, power steering, front end will have some type of tube front end/trimmed fenders. As of now the wheelbase has only been lengthened about 3", and I plan on shortening the rear axle 3" to help offset the diff.

Originally posted by sh996
Pro-Comp MX6 shocks

just for my reference, I got part # mx6055 for my mx6's.. what did you get?

Originally posted by sh996
toy axles, 4:38 gearsYou sure about that?

Are you questioning the 4.38s?

tdavis:

My shocks are the 6018's. They are for a F250. I was told that they were the longest shock they had (32" extended and 21" compressed) and came either light or medium weight (whatever that really means??). I'm assuming since these are for a F250 that they are the medium weight one's.

TNToy:
I got them from DSI and he said they were 4:38 (maybe 4:39?). I know standard is 4:11. Either way it's better than sami 3:73's, which is all I ran before with the 6:1 t-case.

I'm hoping to get it back together today so I can test the flex out completely and see if it binds and find out if I need to fix my panhard bar angle...

The 4.38 ratios DID COME FACTORY in the early 80's Yotas. That's why I was asking if he was questioning the ratio.

I was. I didn't know that. I know early ones came with 3.90s and 4.10s ... later on they got 4.56s and 4.88s in autos. I've never seen a factory gear in that ratio in a toy before, and I know that don't offer them aftermarket. (4.10, 4.56, 4.88, 5.29, 5.71)

So I assumed he meant 4.56.

You learn something new every day. :D

TNToy:
I got them from DSI and he said they were 4:38 (maybe 4:39?). I know standard is 4:11. Either way it's better than sami 3:73's, which is all I ran before with the 6:1 t-case.





just wondering did you get them form DSI or from me :flipoff2:



:massey:

Hey Moto! Sorry about the mix-up, I did get them from you. Haven't heard from you in awhile, how's your rig coming along? I've about got the front axle back together on mine. That extra housing worked out very well.

I'm thinking of doing an EFI power steering set-up, can you help me out with that sometime after the new year?

hay

yea you can have the one off my zuk just give me a call ill hook you up




:massey:

My cousin only had one 4.38 ratio 3rd member, and he got gears to match them. I think he got them from Marlin. Sounds like the perfect ratio to me-as strong as the 4.11s, and not too low to street drive?