Questioable Buyer Concern? Need help!

[Duffster]

This is a long post I'm sorry but Let me start by explaining the sale. I sold a set of New never used high pinion Dana 60's from Dynatrac that had been sitting for 2+ years to a gentleman back east. He fell on hard times and ask that I help him resell them. I had not shipped these axles to him and agreed to store them for him here in Az untill he sold them. He sold these axles about a month later to another individual here on the west coast. This is where it gets funny! The individual calls me and tells me to ship them to him. I had not yet heard from the first owner telling me he had sold them. The new owner asks about the shipping and says that he was told i had agreed to drop them off at the shipping yard. This is true as when I sold them I was off work for the week and said I had time would do it. He seemed a little agitated that my work schedule would not accomadate his rush to get the axles shiped. I suggested that he call another shipping company and have them picked up at my place. He called back and I was told that it was going to cost approx $50 more for them to do that and that he was willing to wait till I could find a day to get off work to save him the $50 dollars. I explained to him my wife was having a baby on the monday of the following week and that I wouldn't be able to do it till the Thursday or friday of the next week. He said okay but acted very aggresive in his behavior that I wouldn't be able to do it sooner. On monday the following week he calls me 5 minutes after we had just had the baby and leaves a message that he had found a company to pick it up and deliver it to Forward Air for shipping and said he needed someone to put it on the truck. I told him I would be at the hospital all week with my wife as we had a rough delivery and my wife and son were very sick! He said he needed a day to tell the shipping company and I told him wed. I told him that I would leave the hospital to load it if I had to. I never recieved a call back from him to confirm the pickup. I recieved a call from a driver on wed afternoon that he was there to pick up a palet of axles. At this time my son was in surgery. I left the hospital borrowed a fork lift loaded the pallet called him let him know the axles were picked up. Not so much as a thank you! When the shipping driver picked them up he asked me if the palet weighed 350 pounds? I assurred him it weighed that and more. How someone thinks that two HP dana 60's only weigh 350 pounds I don't know. The first buyer had called Dynatrac and got the shipping weight from them. I didn't hear anything until yesterday morning.I recieved a phone message from the the new owner yesterday morning where he was very pissed and upset because he had picked up the axles and had to pay double the shipping price because the shipping weight was understated and wanted to know who was going to riemburse him the extra amount? Me or the first buyer? I then recieved a call
from the first buyer that he had called and stated the the front ring gear and ARB was not installed in the front axle. Here is where i question things. I have purchased some 10+ sets of axles from Dynatrac. I know for a fact those axles had never been opened since the day I picked them up at Dynatrac and unless Dynatrac forgot to put them in there? NOT! Something is not right here! I called the new owner last nigh and left him a message and sent him an email requesting pics. He called me this morning and left a message saying that the axles were missing. I saved the message. I recieved pics this morning. In the pictures I agree the ARB and ring gear are missing but the axles are there. Question is what do I do about it. I'm the original buyer and seller of these axles. I think I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for these axles. Am I being taken advantage of to recoup the shipping cost? What does the board think about this? suggestions? No names please! I want to get an honest opinion!

[rokcrwlrtj]

If the gears and arb were in there i would say you are done wit your end of the deal.


Now if somehow you can comfirm the arb and gears were missing then I would think dynatrac would be the responsible party. If the gears werent there though i would think you would have noticed a yoke missing since there would be nothing for it to be bolted too.

[higgy182]

personally i think this guy or these guys are trying to wenzel you... his line of thinking is probably i've got way too much time on my hands and this guy sounds way busy with his whole situation right now so why not try to wenzel him...

If i were you i would see if he has a pirate name hopefully he does cuz then we can flame him until he confesses like wenzel did.

As long as you stay close to pirate everything will come out in your favor in teh end...

Lock and Roll...

[pmurf1]

Originally Posted by rokcrwlrtj

If the gears and arb were in there i would say you are done wit your end of the deal.


Now if somehow you can comfirm the arb and gears were missing then I would think dynatrac would be the responsible party. If the gears werent there though i would think you would have noticed a yoke missing since there would be nothing for it to be bolted too.

Did you ever lock in the hubs and spin the yoke on the one supposedly missing it's guts? What does your receipt say, were they installed and paid for? Something seems hokey. Either someone is trying to get a free set of gears and ARB or Dynatrac really screwed the pooch. Either way, I think you're SOL.

[Duffster]

I know Dynatrac wouldn't ship an incomplete order! I have purchased numerous axle sets off them over the years. If I had taken the gears out I would have taken the Pinion gear also!!! The pics show the whole carrier and ring gear gone but the pinion gear is still there!

[rockbuggy84]

Ask him to see a pic of the top of the third member. This should say it all, because the hole for the air line will be there! If no hole, send these pic's to dynatrac and ask them if they will pay. If there is a hole tell them fawk off. Dynatrac don't drill hole's for look's. As for the shipping, I see no reason to pay the difference. You didn't have them shiped.

[440-fide Ramcharger]

Sounds to me like you should tell him to pound sand.

Unless you never spun the pinion. You would know for sure if there was no ring gear and carrier.

Once it left your place with HIS shipper, his problem.

IMHO of course, Mark

[Duffster]

After looking at the picks and seeing the silicone on the housing where Dynatrac closed up the cover. They would never seal up an empty housing, a big glob of grease on the end of the shaft from when you pull the axles out. When you push the axle in the Blue grease goes to the inside of the splined end the shaft. And the pinion gear is still there and the ARB fitting is there on the housing. I know the cover was never removed while it was at my place! Thanks everyone for the help and opinions!

Duffster

[Duffster]

Here is a copy of the email he sent to me this morning.

Duffy,
You need to address the problems with the ft axle, I spoke with ***** (The first buyer) last night and this looks very bad on your part. I do not believe that you were not aware of the problems with the axles. You and I both know what is involved to remove the ring gear, carrier and locker assy. Someone (if not you) disassembled the ft axle to remove these items then reassembled it.

You have already cost me a lot of money for shipping which I will attempt to collect. I believe you have been untruthful in our conversations and where we are at now only reaffirms my suspicions, if need be I will escalate this to a legal matter (my family has an attorney on retainer) and advise people how Duffy does business.

You have until tomorrow to respond or I will begin to spread the word about our transaction. The End



On a side note The Buyer I have had not a conversations since I was made aware of the situation! He did not answer my call, but did call the first buyer and try to get him to pay for the shipping difference.

[Myanarchy]

So he says you stole it?


I'd tell him to go ahead with legal matters if he wants. Get a lawyer now

[Duffster]

After todays email I retained counsel

Duffy

[rednck21]

so was there a hole for the arb fitting??

[Duffster]

There is a hole for the fitting in the picture he sent. But I have a picture of the axles on the pallet before they were shipped with the ARB fitting in it with a black plastic cap on it.

[krawlfreak]

its a scam

[Duffster]

here is the lastest email from the new buyer.

"Duffy,
I have absolutely nothing to gain by removing the ring gear, carrier and locker. the ring gear is useless without the pinion and why would I sabotage axles I just paid $6000.00 for? Duffy knock it off, I wanted and paid for complete axles~when I got them home and off my flatbed trailer in the garage I removed the diff cover because the shafts would not turn when I turned the pinion yoke. It took me an hour to get home from the shipping terminal then approx another hour to remove the axles from the pallet into the garage then I had to put the trailer away. I then called ***** (the first buyer) around 4:00 p.m. MST to advise him the parts were missing and at 5:00 p.m. MST I uploaded the photos to Mike after taking off the rear diff cover to make sure nothing was missing on that one.

Duffy we are not talking about a $20.00 item. You owe money for your untruths. I will get this fixed weather you pay for it or ****( The first buyer) does. But it is not fair that **** (The first buyer) pays for it since he bought them from you. I do find it interesting that you have refused to address the other issues that have come up. Trust me when I say that I will spend my own money to ruin any chance you have of ever doing business anywhere. Take care of your problem..
THE END


I sent an email asking him to clarify what other issues? I am unaware of any other issues!

[rockbuggy84]

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

[rockbuggy84]

This is kinda a long shot? Do you remember the shipping weight of the axle's? If so call Dynatrac and ask shiping weight on these axle's when they leave there shop. The arb, ring gear, and bearing's are gonna weigh enough to notice between the two time's they were shipped. Might work??

[chromewontgetyouhome]

What shipping company was used? Maybee someone working there stole it?

[Duffster]

Thanks Rockbuggy. I already consulted an attorney today after he threatened to ruin me. Just being cautious. I really appreciate everyone input!


Duffster

[patchzx7r]

EXTREMELY LONG RESPONSE!!!



I am happy that this is out now because I am the one that purchased these axles from the first buyer .

I am happy to provide any information neccessary to prove that the front diff was missing the Ring Gear, and the ARB along with the bearings when I recieved it.

1) I sent a check to the first buyer for the advertised price of 5750.00. I then instructed him to wait until the check cleared then notify Duffy it is ok to ship the axles. See below

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Dynatrac 60s


Matt,

The check cleared.
I'll email Duffy and let him know and to work with you
on any arrangements.

Much appreciated,
Michael


2)I did not get a call from Duffy so I called him that evening, bare in mind people I just gave a check to an individual for almost 6000.00 and he has never touched or seen the axles in person. But I researched Duffy on Pirate and it seemed as if he had been around a while so I was cautious. I then waited another day and still no return call to prepare shipping arrangements. So I called him again and after returning my call he advised the soonest he could drop off the axles would be January 18-19. So I was out of town until the evening the of 19th with NO PHONE CALL that he was not able to drop off the axles . I then called him because for over a week the understanding was that the axles were being dropped off either day and I would pay for the shipping from forward air terminal in Phoenix to Denver.

3) Duffy was paid $50.00 dollars according to the first seller to drop off the axles at the terminal. After talking to Duffy I was beginning to feel suspicious because he stated he was trying to do me a favor by dropping them off and that is was something he was not being paid for. Having children myself I understood that he would not be able to take the time and drop the axles off so I told him I found a transporter that would pick up the pallet for $36.47 as long as someone loaded it with forklift on the truck and they would take it to forward air. He then advised me that he had someone (i think a grandfather or father I don't remember exactly) there all the time that could work a forklift and that all I had to do was call him and let him know. I later got a call from Air Cargo Transit the new cost was 94.00 because of weight that was underestimated.


4)Duffy, this is where I get pissed in reading your thread on this whole f**kin deal . You then state that no one called you until the day of to pick up the axles. THAT IS A LIE, Air Cargo called you on Tuesday after they recieved my overnight check to set up the pick up and verify you had a forklift to move the pallet on the truck.

5)I then got a call from Duffy stating that the axles were picked up at around 12:00 MST and I told you Thanks and i will call you if there is anything wrong. After the axles were picked up I called the first buyer to tell him the axles are finally being shipped and he was quite upset becuase he had paid Duffy extra to pallet and drop off the axles when he paid Duffy. He then contacted Duffy and got no response. So then when they get to forward air I get a call that it will cost exactly 201.68 to ship instead of the 104.00 I was quoted (given the dimensions in the thread) becuase the pallet weighs over 800#. The first buyer was also very upset about this because he was given a bid from Forward Air to ship to the east coast on the shipping wait from Duffy. Forward Air gave me one day to send them a cashiers check for the 200+ dollars otherwise it would be 50.00 a day for storage. I then overnighted the check to them and the axles leave Phoenix on Friday and arrive in Denver. On Tuesday morning I get a call that the axles are in the terminal and I can get them.




4) See thread below for complete information on axles INCLUDING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT GIVEN TO FIRST SELLER BY DUFFY.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...light=dynatrac


Here is the pallet info:

Hey everyone this is Duffy. I sold him the axles so lets get it all straight. These are new axles. The only difference between the ones I have for sale and these axles is the outer shafts on these are 31 spline I believe. These have the high steer arms on them and mine don't. The guy is in a bind and needs to sell them. He has paid for them but they will ship from my shop in Phx, Arizona. This is a GREAT DEAL! About half the price they were new!!!

Duffy



Member #6579
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North East
Posts: 73 To all interested: If a Forward Air terminal, <www.forwardair.com> is close the savings for shipping is tremendous. The zip location of the axles are 85383 in Peoria, AZ. The pallet is 6'6"L X 37"W X 18"H. Weight 450-500lbs.
__________________4 Play always starts with a Toy!

’76 FJ40 - 383 Chevy, FI, SM465, lockers, SOA, Boggers

5) I get there about 2:00 p.m. and the first thing I notice is the lokar E-brake that Duffy was suppose to put on the pallet was not there. It takes me an hour to get home in the traffic and I back the flatbed trailer into the garage to unload the axles. I remove them from the pallet and have a neighbor help me unload the 800# axles onto the ground. I put the trailer back and start to look over the axles and notice the outer shafts are not turning when I turn the pinion yoke ?? I check the hubs and they work fine, so then I remove the diff cover and see that there is no internals only the pinion and the bearing caps ?? http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos (click on "pictures" link) I call the first buyer and I am fawkin pisst at this point becuase of everything that has happened thus far it is about 4:00 p.m. I then send photos after checking the rear axle and pulling the cover off (which is fine BTW) a little after 5:00 p.m. to the first owner then to duffy later that night after he emailed that he wanted them as well.

5)Quote from Duffy: (Sorry I don't know how to copy multiple quotes into this)

He called me this morning and left a message saying that the axles were missing. I saved the message. I recieved pics this morning. In the pictures I agree the ARB and ring gear are missing but the axles are there. Question is what do I do about it. I'm the original buyer and seller of these axles. I think I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for these axles.

Duffy, I never said the axles are missing?? Why would I send you photos of a missing axle?? I just want the axles I paid $5750.00 for in the condition I was quoted on the phone and in the thread

Then it gets ugly because the first owner is stuck becuase he bought the axles from Duffy and advertised them as complete . I have done everything possible to be upfront and honest about this whole deal.

I want what I paid for 2 complete axles ready to be used. I can in no way benefit from removing the internals that are missing because I would have to buy another master instal set, a ring and pinion set and a ARB Locker.

The axle had a locker in it and it was removed the photos prove that, it was in no ones possession but Duffy.. So here is the details thus far minus voicemails demanding that Duffy do the right thing here..


Alright Duffy the ball is in your court, and I packed a lunch to hang out and argue as long as you want, but we both know I could not have removed the parts and reassembled the axle in one hour then snapped photos just to try to fuck you out of some $, no way man, no way..

[patchzx7r]

Originally Posted by rockbuggy84

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

Perhaps you should rethink callin me a dipshit?? I am trying to help the first buyer from getting fucked out of money..

[patchzx7r]

Originally Posted by rockbuggy84

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

No Duffy, I want you to consult an attorney because what is going on here is not over a small amount of money and i have everything well documented.

[patchzx7r]

My response to Duffy via email:

It seems you beat me to posting on Pirate.. Good. Get with Mike and make this deal right.. It is not fair.

The other issues were the repainting of the housings, I called Dynatrac and they are researching the build sheets as every axle that leaves there is coded on the tubes, of which some of the codes have been grinded after paint and repainted again. Which Dynatrac can think of no reason this would be done. Plus the diff gasket has overspray on it which they paint the housing before parts are installed.

We can become pen pals or get all 3 on the phone and hammer this out.. It is your call.
----- Original Message -----
From: duffster@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Axles


Matt,
Clarify please. What other issues?

[chevota01]

As the original buyer and seller to Matt, I'm caught between a rock and a hardspot. I've heard both sides from Matt and Duffy and both are sticking to their guns. I received a check from Matt on Monday, 1/9/2006 and emailed Duffy on 1/12/06 that Matt purchased the axles and provided his phone number and contact info. That's the last I heard for close to 3 weeks. Matt called me about the shipping issues and how they were not shipped and had to spend additional money for the shipping. I asked why I was not contacted to get involved and help with any issues. I have heard from both parties about this situation.

On Tuesday, 2/1/2006, I received a phone call from Matt stating the ring gear, ARB and brake cable were missing and pictures were sent upon my request. I contacted Duffy and he said the axles have not been touched and has bought numerous pairs from Dynatrac and why would I take out the locker and leave the pinion gear. Also he taped the brake cable securely to the axles.

I would like to have this resolved myself, ASAP. Whether one party is fu#king over another or it is a legitmate error, I cannot take sides on something I have not seen or know the resolve of the individuals involved. I also understand that the shipping weight was wrong-I'll take all the heat for that to move forward. To me the weight is the weight and the buyer needs to pay it regardless. I have yet to see a deal on Pirate or anywhere the seller pays for any of it.

As the seller and an honest person, I want to see this made right. I sold the axles at a loss of $2500.00 from my original price paid to Duffy to pay for bills that continue to mount. My financial situation in the present is difficult at best.

The bottom line is, as the seller to Matt, I would like to see this resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Matt has asked me to talk to Duffy about getting money back for the additional shipping - which I do not believe he is entitled to. As of this email, both parties are sticking to their guns.

If the axles arrived without the taped brake cable, maybe the airlocker was stolen in transit?

Michael

[TRNDRVR]

Originally Posted by chevota01

If the axles arrived without the taped brake cable, maybe the airlocker was stolen in transit?

Wow!!! Now there's a thought.