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Old 07-11-2009, 10:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Davez Offroad Performace

I ordered a motor from Davez Offroad Performance and payed via paypal on March 9, 2009. Apologies in advance for this post being so long, but this has been strung out since then, so there is a lot of information to present.

Quote:
Dear Derrick,

You have sent a payment of $1,699.99 USD to toyotaparts@XXXX.net.

This transaction will appear soon in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.


Payment details
Amount: $1,699.99 USD
Transaction Date: Mar. 9, 2009

The rules for this forum say this: "If it's a vendor issue you had better given them some time to make things right. Parts get back ordered and the UPS guy loses stuff. We are here to help but we can't make parts magically appear!"


I will let you judge after reading and seeing the facts, as to whether or not I have given him time to make this right.



I had already been waiting just short of a month (PM's to Dave during this time and his excuses can be seen at the bottom of this post), so on April 1 I put up a post on Davez board with some of the details of my build. Dave responded that day and said:


Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:14 pm
Wow, you have been busy. Your engine is almost done and ready to ship any day..what happen to the orig pics?
I will post a pic or two that I took building the engine.



I got the motor on I believe Friday April 24. That is one month and 15 days since payment was sent. It was in the truck and ran for the first time April 30. The first test drive on May1 I noticed a nasty oil leak that was from a plug in the block that never got tightened down when the motor was built.


I could not get the motor to run right. It had been "running" since April 30 but it did not have much power and stumbled a lot. Here is the post I made on Davez' site regarding that:



Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat May 09, 2009 12:52 pm
I haven't really done anything with the truck except bolt the winch on.. the new motor has 7 miles on it so far.

The reason I haven't done anything with it really is I think it all needs to be torn apart?? :roll:

I just can't get the distributor timing right. The truck runs best when the timing light is reading so far advanced that it's off the little index ring on the oil pump. I'd guess like 15-20 degrees?

With the distributor in at this position, I can't adjust the timing past 5* BTDC, and even at that point it runs like crap. timing needs to be really advanced for it to run ok.

If I move the distributor a tooth, it is off too far the other way.

I think maybe the timing chain is off a tooth?

not sure really but my head hurts. The truck doesn't have much power really, maybe about the same as before the old worn out motor popped, but I don't want to drive it if it is screwed up

And here is Dave's response:




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Sat May 09, 2009 12:57 pm
Its not going to have power if its not running right. Bring the eng to tdc and see if the rotor is aiming at the #1 plug term


I was pretty frustrated and he wasn't really offering any suggestions. I spent hours checking the motor out and researching
what the issue could be.



Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat May 09, 2009 1:05 pm
yeah I've done that a million times... when it is, the timing light reads super crazy advanced on the crank, and I can't adjust it past 5* BTDC towards TDC..

If I move it a tooth, it's off the other way. Neither gives me the full adjustment that I had with the old motor (from one side of TDC to the other) that's why I was thinking the timing chain was off?

It runs best now with the rotor pointing to cyl 1 contact in the cap, but the timing is nowhere near spec.

The crank pulley bolt was super loose when I got it, to the point of it turning out when I put a wrench on the motor and turned it. I guess tonight I will go verify that the crank pulley is actually on all the way and indexed on the crank with the key, I guess that would make sense as to why it is reading so crazy advanced


I don't know man, you built it... any suggestions other than that? I've gone through the standard timing procedure 10x aside from actually pulling the valve cover and making sure the timing chain is on right



And Dave's very helpful response:


Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Sat May 09, 2009 1:20 pm
Not sure what to tell you. The crank bolts are impacted then torqued. I have to turn the eng over to adjust the. Valves. I would warm the eng and check valve adjstment first we can onlyu adjust them cold. It could have a tight valve.




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat May 09, 2009 1:41 pm


alright so it doesn't sound like timing chain is a tooth off to you? not trying to be a dick and saying you did it wrong just trying to rule everything out

the crank bolt came loose when I put a wrench on it, turned it to get it to tdc, and noticed that I had gone a little far so I turned it back (loosening instead of tightening now) when you adjusted the valves I'd assume you were turning it clockwise? again, either way, I'm not here to nitpick on this just want to figure out wtf is going on.

I'll check the crank pulley monday (working 12on/12off for the weekend) and if that's cool I guess I will pull the valve cover and check the valve adjustment and timing chain. not sure where to go from there really.





I never actually did check the valve adjustment, as I refused to open this engine any further than it had been when I received it. At this point
I viewed that as a good way to have my warranty considered void, and this thing hasn't run right since I got it. I did
however find some great information on Pirate4x4 regarding this exact same issue while I was at work http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...vacuum+advance

I put up a post about this in the thread on Dave's forum:

Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat May 09, 2009 2:05 pm
This thread details my problems exactly, but it looks like those guys just left it like that... I would rather find the answer to the problem


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... um+advance


Dave's only response was this:

Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Sat May 09, 2009 2:21 pm
I guess its possible that the balancer could be slipped I have only seen this a couple times. Since I use the colored links to set the cam and crank with the timing chain I may have not seen it. But usually when I install the crank pulley I check everything and make a silver mark on the timing groove of the crank pulley so I know I have checked it.


Here is the following three posts that I made about the situation:





Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat May 09, 2009 2:30 pm
I had to mark the pulley with soapstone to check the timing.


I'll keep you updated.. really want to be driving this thing.

At least it moves out of the garage now so I don't have to hear bitching about that :roll:





Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sun May 10, 2009 10:36 am
At work so still can't look at the truck, but had some time to do a little thinking and check some pictures for the number of teeth on the sprockets.

cam sprocket = 36 teeth
crank sprocket = 18 teeth

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 1 tooth on cam sprocket = 360/36 = 10 degrees 1 tooth on crank sprocket = 360/18 = 20 degrees

Given that the motor only runs when the distributor is set with the timing advanced to >20* BTDC, it is looking like this is a mathematical confirmation that the timing chain is off a tooth

Will pull valve cover tomorrow morning



Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Mon May 11, 2009 10:10 am
well this morning I swapped my old crank pulley onto the new motor, as the new one didn't have the power steering pump pulley and I didn't realize it, so the belts weren't lined up right.

Also switched some vacuum lines I noticed were messed up

Started the truck and let it start to warm up, and there is lots of what appears to be coolant coming out of the exhaust?

I don't even know wtf to do now except go buy a bottle of whiskey and get so drunk this whole thing disappears from my consciousness for a few hours




The motor was pouring coolant out the exhaust. Enough to make a rather large puddle in a very short period of time.

This is what Dave said:





Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Mon May 11, 2009 10:21 am
Sorry your having so much trouble, btw the outer pully (power steering pulley) un bolts and bolts to the new balancer with 4 bolts. Are you sure its coolant? condensation is normal.







Quote:

Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Mon May 11, 2009 10:29 am
I'm not sure the amount that is coming out could be considered normal, I don't remember having puddles on the garage floor after it running for less than 5 minutes :cry:

I will run it again for a bit and watch the coolant level to see if it goes down I guess, but it hardly seems good to run the motor like this if all that coolant is actually getting in the cylinders.

I'll go pull a spark plug before I leave and see if it's wet. Not sure what that will tell me really but at this point I'm putting all my tools away for the day and going to shoot stuff with the shotgun. Changed my mind on the whiskey as I'll probably end up getting in trouble



And here is my next very frustrated update as Dave had been pretty much no help:




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Mon May 11, 2009 6:16 pm
Went and shot stuff with the .22 earlier to clear my head, should have brought the shotgun after all as I ended up beheading quite a few snakes with the shovel I had with me.


After that I came back to where the truck is, and pulled the intake off.

There were no signs of leakage between coolant passages and the intake runners on the gasket, and the intake runners were dry in the head. Plugs from cylinders 1&2 were fairly clean and totally dry. Plugs from 3&4 were black and also dry. There is no water in the oil

I put on a new gasket, and put it all back together. Started it up, and the truck didn't even have to warm up really before it started spitting water (didn't fill with coolant this time) out the exhaust fairly rapidly.

The engine has 7 miles on it, and hasn't overheated or anything crazy like that, but now it is acting like the headgasket is blown in my and several other opinions.

I did not take the engine apart past where it was when I got it.

So far, with the timing chain appearing to be off a tooth, and the headgasket appearing to be blown or whatever is going on, it looks like I will be calling Davez in the morning to check on a refund. Not really what I wanted to do, after spending all this time and energy on this, but I don't really see any other option at this point.

Despite the fact that I will have to pull the motor, take all my stuff off it, and pay to ship it back, not to mention all the down time, I still refuse to pull the head as this motor should have been fine when it got here , and I have done nothing to cause these issues.

I was really hoping that resealing the intake would fix it, it wasn't doing this when I broke in the cam. I spent a long time with a scraper and brake cleaner/scotch pad cleaning the surfaces, and checked it with a machinist's rule, as well as had a mechanic with 40+ years experience watching over my shoulder as I removed/reinstalled it. At this point all options we can see point to the head gasket.

Going to start looking for a SBC to swap in I guess. Since I've gone to all this trouble already I might as well do a little more and get a significant power increase




Dave seems to realize the motor he sent me is seriously fucked up, and replies a little over an hour later with this:



Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Mon May 11, 2009 7:37 pm
I have no problem with a refund. I am sorry you have had such a bad time with this. I would also be willing to put an intake and exhaust manifold break in a new engine pressure test it then send it to you. Again sorry for you being the first with this kind of trouble with one of my engines. Let me know when its back on the pallet, I will send a truck for it.


Keep in mind that at this point I am into this engine 2 months since Dave took a month and a half to get it to me, and I have been fucking around
for a week trying to get it to run right and figure out what is wrong with it. I really just wanted my money back. But at the same time,
I knew that I would have to wait for him to get my money back to me, and then take the time to rebuild my old motor. Here
is my public response to Dave about the replacement motor:




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Tue May 12, 2009 11:17 am



I agree that it is unfortunate that I am the first to have these issues with one of your motors. That is the reason I bought one from you, the great track record you have on pirate and the overwhelming praise from everyone that buys stuff from you.

There are a few concerns I have though before going for a replacement motor, which sounds great if you are willing to put it together and break it in to make sure it runs ok first.

The first being that I can't really wait a month and a half or two more months for this to be done. The truck has been occupying space in someone else's shop since March, and they are, to say the least, not really happy with me since they were under the impression that I would just be doing a motor swap, but are willing to let me occupy the space for a while longer until I get this all straightened out.

Do you have a motor there that is built, or one in the works, or can you give me an approximate time on how long it would take to have one together and ready to go? I don't want to rush you obviously as that never leads to good things, but as stated, if it will be a long lead time on this, I will have to pass and go for the refund, if only for the fact that this needs to be done ASAP.

Second, I would ask that you pay shipping at least one way on this replacement deal. I am in college and this is the most money I've ever spent on anything vehicle related other than an actual vehicle, and I'd rather not drive the price up another few hundred dollars as I really don't think I did anything wrong here and just got a bum motor or whatever the hell.

I appreciate you working with me on this, and either way I will start pulling the motor once I am done with my final exams this week


Dave responds within the hour:



Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Tue May 12, 2009 12:08 pm
pm sent. :mrgreen:



Here is the message he sent me:


Quote:
eng

Sent at: Tue May 12, 2009 2:11 pm
From: Dave
To: operose
I have one that is almost done..I was trying to get some kind of inventory so people didnt have to wait so long when we are slammed. I will get it finished and fire it up and test it before shipping. Should have it done by next week. Let me know when that eng is ready to come back and I will pay to have it brought back. Thank you, Dave
ps, make sure it is empty and wont leak.


and my response:


Quote:
Re: eng

Sent at: Wed May 13, 2009 3:52 pm
by operose


I will pull the motor on thursday night or friday, so should be no problems having it ready to go out monday morning.

My one free pass at a business w/ forklift for shipping has been used up though, so this will have to be done from my parent's garage I guess.

Thanks,
Derrick


Then Dave bitches about it costing him money (like it didn't cost me any money to have the broken engine shipped to me in the first place?)


Quote:
Re: eng

Sent at: Thu May 14, 2009 10:41 am
by Dave
We have sent the order to pick up the engine. It must be drained and no sign of possible leaking or they will not pick it up and charge us anyway also must be securely strapped down and wrapped. This is costing us $300 to pick this up at a residence.




I never heard whether or not the motor showed up to his shop, and didn't hear anything about him shipping a new one out, so I posted this:




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:29 pm
Did that motor show up yet Dave?


And of course he never responded.



So I posted this:




Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:26 pm
Dave,

My last post here was made on Wednesday, and I didn't think it was that demanding of a question. I really hate to post this, but I really feel your communication has been lacking if not non-existant, and I just want to make sure we are still on a path to resolution with this deal.

I see that you have been active on here and on pirate several times since I made that post, so I just want to ask why you couldn't take the 30seconds to respond to me?

There have been no PM's, emails, phone calls, or anything since you made a post in this thread on May 27th saying that you were working on the replacement motor. That replacement motor that you said should be done by the end of the week of May 12th per this PM:

"eng","Dave",""Tue May 12"," 2009 2:11 pm"",,""

I have one that is almost done..I was trying to get some kind of inventory so people didnt have to wait so long when we are slammed. I will get it finished and fire it up and test it before shipping. Should have it done by next week. Let me know when that eng is ready to come back and I will pay to have it brought back. Thank you"," Dave",,




If I haven't heard from you by monday morning that the motor showed up I will contact the shipping company to see if they lost the motor or something. All I am looking for is communication. I am not saying anything shady is going on, I just don't know one way or the other and would like to know WTF is going on.


And he responds:


Quote:
Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby Dave on Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:05 pm
YES! the engine showed up.. Fri I worked with only one other emplyee so time was short. I have looked at the engine briefly even on Saturday. When you see that we have been on web sites a lot of time it is an employee trying to help or answer questions not always ME, I sometimes use my phone which is very hard to type long sentences and lengthy answers.



So I ask him if the other motor is ready to ship and he just ignores it:


Quote:

Re: Getting the 83 ready for the summer (lots of pics)

Postby operose on Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:57 pm
So is the other motor ready to ship?

I am getting shit from all sides on this thing not being ready to go yet (gf, parents, buddies, random people on the internet :shock: )


Let me know what's up









So here is an exchange of PM's regarding the transaction:







Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:28 pm
From: Dave
To: operose
I am glad you sent that pm to me, for the reasons that I am doing every thing in my power to inspect (to find the failed part) and get you an engine that is trouble free or at least to have found the problems.I am sorry I dont remember the caliper issue if you will let me know what I screwed up there I would be more than happy to fix the issue. Your posts just seem to be very abrupt and very angry I dont know how to go any faster than to pressure test the cooling systm and check cyl head thickness and cam timing. Parts are having to be made to pressure test the system with the engine out. Wouldnt it be bad to send you a diff engine and have the same problems? I will call you Monday night. Thank you

Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:27 pm
by operose


No reason for me to get mad.

So you've pulled the valve cover and checked the cam timing, and put a pressure tester on it and were waiting to see if it leaked down?

I don't know what went wrong with it but I described what it was doing and gave you links to threads on pirate where other people were having the exact same timing issue. they fixed it with adjustable cam gear.

If you get a chance, throw it in a truck and see what it does, I'd be interested to hear the results.


Let me know when the other one ships out please. I will let you know as soon as it arrives.

Work has been a little slow lately so there should be no problem putting it in the day it gets here or the day after.

Thanks,
Derrick


Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:11 pm
by Dave
Shipping co. called to confirm the pick up, which usually means the next truck through town will pick it up. Problem I am having is finding anything wrong with the engine you sent back. Dont get mad I am just trying to find what went wrong, The exhaust ports look really really black with soot your carb is running way too rich. the cam timing couldnt be any more perfect to 12:oo straght up so the head has not been surfaced too much. with the exhaust ports being so black and not showing sighns of water I left the pressure tester on the engine tonight to see if it bleeds off by tomorrow morning. I will let you know what i find.


Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:01 pm
by operose

Dave wrote:I am glad you sent that pm to me, for the reasons that I am doing every thing in my power to inspect (to find the failed part) and get you an engine that is trouble free or at least to have found the problems.I am sorry I dont remember the caliper issue if you will let me know what I screwed up there I would be more than happy to fix the issue. Your posts just seem to be very abrupt and very angry I dont know how to go any faster than to pressure test the cooling systm and check cyl head thickness and cam timing. Parts are having to be made to pressure test the system with the engine out. Wouldnt it be bad to send you a diff engine and have the same problems? I will call you Monday night. Thank you



I apologize if any of my posts seemed very abrupt and very angry, I have been trying my best to keep my composure over this whole thing and not lose my head. Reading back through some of the PM's and posts, I can see that my emotions showed through a bit, but I wouldn't call it angry or abrupt.

Of course it would be bad to send me a different engine with the same problems. I am not saying you should rush this, in fact I have said numerous times "I am not trying to rush you" etc etc etc. I do find it odd that you say you can't go any faster yet in the post that you seem to have deleted from that thread that was locked and now is unlocked you said "Yes the other engine is ready."

Mostly my "abrupt and very angry" posts would have been circumvented had you bothered to take the time to communicate with me a bit about this. Your communication has been atrocious from the beginning. Your shop seems very cool, and you guys seem to know a lot, but I think you need to hire a secretary or something.

My post yesterday would never have happened if I had received a quick PM, email, or phone call on friday saying that you got the motor and would be checking it out. I understand that you only had one other person in the shop with you, but does that really prevent you from taking 30 seconds to send me a message? Rarely a day goes by that you don't post on pirate or here, would it be much different from that?

In fact, the majority of my posts and PM's and phone calls would have never happened had you or one of your employees taken the 30 seconds to log into the forums you are always logged into and send me a message.

I don't like to bother people. AT ALL. I just want you to know that I didn't want to have to send you any of these PM's or making these posts asking what was going on, I just had no clue what was going on as you hadn't told me, and you are in possession of a considerable amount of my money. $1700 might not be squat to you, but that is a month's pay for me.

Don't worry about the brake stuff. I bought a vented roter/IFS caliper setup from you and it didn't come with any of the springs or clips for the calipers. I hadn't thought of this when I bought it, and didn't have any of the old stuff left as I traded it off. I will get these parts locally and it is not a big deal. I actually apologize for even throwing that dig in the last message, it just boils down to the larger picture of unorganized and lacking communication.

For posterity and so you don't think I'm BS'ing you, here is the PM from me to you and the PM from you back to me. I guess you didn't tell me you would send them for free you just never said anything except "don't worry about it"

"I do need the anti-rattle springs and stuff for the front calipers though if you guys have them. It was a vented rotor/IFS caliper kit I got from you guys a while back. It didn't come with the springs and stuff and I didn't have the old ones anymore.",,,,,,
,,,,,,
"Let me know what you need for those and I'll paypal it over.",,,,,,
,,,,,,
,,,,,,
"Thanks",,,,,,
"Derrick"",,,,,,




"Re: 22r","Dave",""Thu Mar 26"," 2009 3:08 pm"",,"No prob on the caliper stuff..sorry on the 5 speed..sent the pm to the wrong address.",,,




Rest assured, I do not want to trash talk you on the internet, I do not want to hold a grudge against you or have you hold a grudge against me. I just want to drive my truck.

Look forward to hearing from you,
Derrick



Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:28 pm
by Dave
I am glad you sent that pm to me, for the reasons that I am doing every thing in my power to inspect (to find the failed part) and get you an engine that is trouble free or at least to have found the problems.I am sorry I dont remember the caliper issue if you will let me know what I screwed up there I would be more than happy to fix the issue. Your posts just seem to be very abrupt and very angry I dont know how to go any faster than to pressure test the cooling systm and check cyl head thickness and cam timing. Parts are having to be made to pressure test the system with the engine out. Wouldnt it be bad to send you a diff engine and have the same problems? I will call you Monday night. Thank you

Quote:
22r

Sent at: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:22 pm
by operose
Postby Dave on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:17 pm

Well there does not seem to be a likely way to make you happy so I am going in to the shop today and finish the inspection of the engine we sent you (to make sure there is a problem with the engine so that you dont have any issues) We dont wish to send out another engine only to find out there are issues not related to the engine. Future contact with you will be phone calls. Yes the other engine is ready. Thank you
FOR ALL YOUR TOYOTA NEW AND USED PARTS. 530-622-2148
YOU will NEVER roll if you don't wheel on the edge!





I am not a difficult guy to make happy. I also don't think that I am really asking that much of you or being that difficult of a customer, after the amount of time that this has been going on. I did not think there was anything special about this order that would make it take three months. I understand that there are circumstances that are outside both of our control. I would say though on one hand that you should be glad I am not one of the people on pirate that throws up a thread in the bad sellers forum after a month.

Apologies if my communications have been getting more blunt and to the point over time, but I really just want to get this whole thing over with so it can be in the past and so that I can drive my truck again.

I understand that you need to look at the whole situation and make sure you don't screw yourself over, but it makes me uncomfortable that you felt the need to say this part: "We dont wish to send out another engine only to find out there are issues not related to the engine."

Do you really think I would wait 2 months for a motor to arrive and then send it back when there is nothing wrong with it, just so that I would have to wait another month or more for a different engine? I posted the thread on your board detailing what I was doing with the truck, and when issues arose with the engine after it arrived, I posted those freely with all information I could provide. Nothing was held back, and nothing further than what I stated was done to/with the motor. I DID NOT WANT TO HAVE TO SHIP THIS MOTOR BACK TO YOU.

I was hoping that you would offer some advice on things to check but really all you told me was to make sure I was timing it properly, and then after that it seemed like you just gave up on it being anything but the motor, per your posts or lack thereof in the thread. Between myself and a couple of other local guys, we checked what we could without tearing into the motor that you built. I did not want to take the motor apart as I understood that this would probably void the warranty in your eyes, and so I did not take the motor apart any further than it was when it arrived.

The only thing that needs to be done to make me happy is to have a running and working motor in my truck or get my money back. Yes, I know that you said you would give me a refund or send me another motor. The reason I agreed to another motor was that I felt this would be the quickest way to get this all resolved and over with, and you made statements to basically assure me of this.

I am sorry that this whole experience has not gone well for either of us, and don't worry, I will leave the Davez sticker on my truck that has been there since I bought the brake stuff, even though you never sent me the caliper parts you said you would send for free after I offered to pay for them.

My phone number is XXXXX if you don't have it anymore, and I look forward to hearing from you so that we can get this over and done with.






Dave sends me this message later:

Quote:
engine

Sent at: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:44 am
From: Dave
To: operose
It past the leak test. my guys are installing it now. the shipping truck should be here today or tomorrow to pick up the engine.

So at that point I was still taking Dave's word on this. I even asked if there was anything that my parts could have been doing to cause it. Here is my response


Quote:
Re: engine

Sent at: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:06 pm
by operose

Dave wrote:It past the leak test. my guys are installing it now. the shipping truck should be here today or tomorrow to pick up the engine.




Well I don't know wtf is up if it passed the leak test. What does that mean exactly with regards to what could have been going on for me? I didn't really think it would be possible to screw up the intake manifold gasket 3 times but I guess maybe I did? Are you doing anything special when you put the intake gasket on? If this was my fault I feel like a jackass but we couldn't find anything that I was doing wrong and it doesn't make sense to me so I don't really understand I guess.

Thanks for keeping me in the loop. Is there anything I can check on my intake to make sure that isn't screwed up? We checked to make sure it wasn't warped with a machinist' rule and I don't know what else to check really.

The coolant level in the truck was going down as it was leaking out the exhaust, but not drastically, and when I smelled it, it was sweet, but now I'm wondering since you said the carb seemed to be running rich if the carb has a stuck float or something and is dumping fuel into the motor which mixed with the coolant that was leaking from somewhere and that's why there was so much fluid coming out the exhaust. It really didn't smell like fuel at all though...

If this is something that is wrong with my carb/intake I definitely don't want to put them on another motor until I figure it out, but I don't know what to check at this point as nothing was wrong with it when the crank sprocket broke, and it was running great up until then. The old motor never leaked a drop of coolant and got great gas mileage even with 4.10's in the axles and 34" tires.. so if you have any ideas let me know.


Thanks,
Derrick



He just never responded to me. I got really pissed when I got this message though, as I had already told him the business address was a one time deal:


Quote:
Re: engine

Sent at: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:18 am
by Dave
Dave is at an event and the trucking co. says they have two different addresses do have an address for a business with a fork lift to keep the cost of delivery down. Thanks Forrest


My (rather pissed) response to that:


Quote:
Re: engine

Sent at: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:24 pm
by operose



Not sure if you got the message, but I called yesterday and gave the guy I talked to the 706 Hatch Rd. address to use.

I told Dave before that this was the address that you would need to use.

Am I misunderstanding this message or has the motor not shipped yet? I was under the impression it was shipping two weeks ago, per this message that I received:

engine

Sent at: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:44 am
by Dave
It past the leak test. my guys are installing it now. the shipping truck should be here today or tomorrow to pick up the engine.




And of course nobody ever responded. What it took to get a response was putting a post in Dave's motors for sale thread in the pirate vendor's section, where I had initially seen the advertisement, threatening to make this very post in the bad seller's forum. This post aired some of the details of our transaction, and simply asked for a response as to where the hell the motor I paid for on March 9 was. I told Dave I would edit this when I got a
response from him, and kept my word on this even though it was dumb and I should have just left it all up there.

Dave said he would call me but never did, so I posted again in the motors for sale thread and that caused him to delete the thread entirely. I will PM
a mod to get this post reopened and locked per the Bad Sellers forum rules.



Here is what he finally PM'd me


Quote:
Re: engine

Sent at: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:31 am
by Dave
The shipping co. was closed yesterday. I called first thing this morning. They explained that the change of address required the truck (one with out lift gate) to return the eng and be put on a truck with a lift gate (and a smaller truck) she said I would receive an email today on the delivery date. Whether you believe me or not. Now I am into the shipping $600.


And my response:

Quote:
Re: engine

Sent at: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:46 am
by operose
So what was the issue with it being shipped out before that? The only reason I went with this option (waiting forever for another motor) instead of my money back is because you said you would have an engine ready to ship in a week.

And just to clarify on this since you keep telling me how much the shipping is costing you - I informed you that the business address was a one time deal. That was a favor done for me by a friend through the place that he works. I told you that I would not be able to use that address again.

Please forward me the email with the delivery date when you get it. XXXXXX


Thanks,
Derrick



But of course I never got any emails from Dave. I called on Friday July 10th at 2pm EST and left a voicemail at his shop
but nobody ever called me back. This morning I get the following email:


Quote:

bol

Sent at: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:41 am
From: Dave
To: operose
XXXXXXX
still trying to get a word on how to track this.













Have a look at some of the excuses I have been getting from the beginning, and see if this is someone you want to buy a $1500 engine from.




Quote:

Re: 22r

Sent at: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:53 pm
by operose

Dave wrote:Every thing is good I am supposed to see the head today or tomorrow. Is your truck a long bed or short. I found a good 5 speed.




Forest said you would be able to get the estimated arrival date from the bill of lading in a day or two, when I talked to him on monday. Have you gotten this?

I know that things have come up on your end, but I didn't really expect it to take this long, and the guy who's shop it is going to (to cut down on the shipping costs) is going to be headed to british columbia soon, so I need to know when it is going to arrive so that I can make arrangements for someone to be there.


Thanks,
Derrick


Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:40 pm
by operose
How's this going?

I don't want to rush you as I'd like this motor to be reliable and built well, but I'm starting to get hassled about having my truck in a borrowed shop for so long (I don't have a garage :roll: ) so was just wondering where you were on it.

You said it was almost done and ready to ship any day now about a week ago, so maybe you already shipped it and I'm jumping the gun?

Sorry if it seems like I'm being pushy, really not trying to be...






Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:18 pm
by operose
alright haha 8)

no worries here, but just to be sure you guys are building me an '83 22R right? :mrgreen:

made me nervous with that 5speed stuff

* Quote Dave

Quote:

Re: 22r

Sent at: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:08 pm
by Dave
No prob on the caliper stuff..sorry on the 5 speed..sent the pm to the wrong address.



Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:03 pm
by operose
The truck is a short bed.. not sure what you mean about the 5speed, I have a good one in the truck already?? The motor swap is going to drain my funds anyway once I get the clutch and some other stuff for it


I do need the anti-rattle springs and stuff for the front calipers though if you guys have them. It was a vented rotor/IFS caliper kit I got from you guys a while back. It didn't come with the springs and stuff and I didn't have the old ones anymore.

Let me know what you need for those and I'll paypal it over.


Thanks,
Derrick


Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:30 am
by Dave
Every thing is good I am supposed to see the head today or tomorrow. Is your truck a long bed or short. I found a good 5 speed.


Quote:
Re: 22r

Sent at: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:35 pm
by operose
How's everything going over there?

Did the head guy get his machine fixed?

Can you tell I'm getting antsy to go wheeling? 8)

* Quote Dave

Re: 22r

Sent at: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:23 pm
by Dave
Going great just waiting on the head. Our head guys equipment took a dump and its supposed to be working this week.


Quote:

22r

Sent at: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:05 pm
by operose
Hey Dave

Just wondering how things are going with the motor :mrgreen:


Thanks,
Derrick




As of right now this issue is still unresolved. We will see whether or not this bill of lading number he just sent me ever turns into a toyota engine.

Last edited by operose; 07-11-2009 at 10:18 AM. Reason: took out mine and dave'z email addresses
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Here are some of the PM's from my inbox on pirate



Quote:
Re: 22R
Quote:
Originally Posted by operose
Copying this over here since you didn't get the last one I sent you on your board


Sent at: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:53 pm
From: operose
To: Dave

Dave wrote:Every thing is good I am supposed to see the head today or tomorrow. Is your truck a long bed or short. I found a good 5 speed.




Forest said you would be able to get the estimated arrival date from the bill of lading in a day or two, when I talked to him on monday. Have you gotten this?

I know that things have come up on your end, but I didn't really expect it to take this long, and the guy who's shop it is going to (to cut down on the shipping costs) is going to be headed to british columbia soon, so I need to know when it is going to arrive so that I can make arrangements for someone to be there.


Thanks,
Derrick
I am sooo sory I blew out my knee and have had DR appts and have missed some work. they said fri or Monday..so hopefully tomorrow.





Quote:
Re: Hey
Quote:
Originally Posted by operose
alright thanks man

I don't have to work tomorrow but might go up in the woods or something so leave me a vm if I don't answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TOYOTAPARTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by operose
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOYOTAPARTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by operose
Hey man did you get my pm on your forum from the other day?
I checked and didnt see one.

Was basically just wondering what was up with that motor I order from you?

Re: 22r

Sent at: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:40 pm
From: operose
To: Dave
How's this going?

I don't want to rush you as I'd like this motor to be reliable and built well, but I'm starting to get hassled about having my truck in a borrowed shop for so long (I don't have a garage :roll: ) so was just wondering where you were on it.

You said it was almost done and ready to ship any day now about a week ago, so maybe you already shipped it and I'm jumping the gun?


oh Im sorry I didnt follow up with you. I got it done and the truck is here picking it up they said it going straight to ya. When I got it done our shipping broker was having trouble finding a route going your way. I paid an extra $50 and they got a company to take it. I will get an exact day of arrival tomorrow. I promise to call.
thank you, I even slipped a few goodies your way.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Ah man I spelled his name wrong in the title.. can a mod change that?
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Engine pics when it arrived back with the thought that there was something wrong with the engine.
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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After inspection of the obvious too rich running carb and the inspection of cam timing and coolant system with no problems found, the engine was installed in another truck here. It ran perfectly and passed CA smog with the timing set at 0 deg. I am sorry it took us too long to ship you two good engines and to install one of them to ensure the problem is on your end. Please have the engine sent to you installed by a shop. Please! I also like how only the pms that suit your needs were posted. I am sorry that I complained about the $600 round trip shipping fee's paid out of my pocket for good engines.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hahahaha


Sounds like Davez did the right thing.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I can post all the PM's if you would like.



Also strange that it took you a month to get that motor running after it got back to you?


You offered no suggestions as to what would be wrong with the motor, and didn't seem to care about figuring it out

If you didn't want to pay the $600 shipping for "good engines" wouldn't it have made sense to try to work out the issue?



Also why don't you address all the LIES that you told me and I caught you in, Dave? I see you managed to gloss over that quite nicely.

Last edited by operose; 07-11-2009 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operose View Post
I can post all the PM's if you would like.



Also strange that it took you a month to get that motor running after it got back to you?


You offered no suggestions as to what would be wrong with the motor, and didn't seem to care about figuring it out

If you didn't want to pay the $600 shipping for "good engines" wouldn't it have made sense to try to work out the issue?



Also why don't you address all the LIES that you told me and I caught you in, Dave? I see you managed to gloss over that quite nicely.

So you couldnt figure out how to tune yer carb and its his fault?
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Last edited by ky scrambled; 07-11-2009 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ky scrambled View Post
So you couldnt figure out how to tune yer carb and its his fault?


There wasn't anything wrong with the carb when it came off the motor, and nothing was changed on it.


What does the carb have to do with coolant dumping out the exhaust, anyway?



Eagerly awaiting my new Davez motor. I will let you all know immediately if I am a dumbass and this one does the same thing.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This post was also more intended to be regarding the initial month and a half wait and then the second month and a half wait, after being told that the second motor would be done "by the end of the week"

I am less concerned about the engines and more concerned about the way this whole thing was handled customer service wise. By the "end" of this whole deal, I can't even begin to believe something that Dave tells me because I have been ignored, put off, lied to, and screwed over since the beginning.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I like dave would rather give my money to him than anybody else for yota parts.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I like dave would rather give my money to him than anybody else for yota parts.
I know, he did me a solid on a locker once and that is what I have heard on the board but then what should I think after all this
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So let me make sure I understand all of this correctly, as it is seriously long. You got a motor from Dave'z, and it had some issues with it running correctly, so he sent a truck to pick up that motor and sent you another brand new rebuild that hasn't arrived yet. The first motor you got was installed in another truck that passed a Califonia emissions test, and hasn't had any other problems yet. Did I forget anything?
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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IF YOU HAVE MET DAVE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND HE SAYS WHAT HE NEEDS TO TO MAKE A SALE . DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME IN A DAY TO GET DONE WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO . TOOK MY BUDDY TWO 1/2 MONTHS TO GET A CAB FROM HIM AFTER HE PAID . DAVE JUST KEEP SAYING TOMORROW, TOMORROW I WILL HAVE SOME ONE WORK ON IT TOMORROW GOOD GUY JUST NEEDS A HELP ON DOING WHAT HE SAYS WHEN HE SAYS IT
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have had a few transactions with Dave always did what he said always in a timley manner. Everything I got from him was also exactly as he stated. I would have to say he is a great vendor and a stand-up guy....

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Old 07-11-2009, 07:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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well obviously not. operose had a big problem with the engine. that is terrible work I must say. Already messing up first 7miles and puking green stuff, why? Then when they get it, its fine whatever!
Talk about scam.

If I were operose I would gotten my money back and not a 2nd engine unless it works Dave did nothin to help you out like you posted. And shipping is not that hard either so I dont get what the issue was with that.

I say get your money back and re-build the old one yourself and take your time.
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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if I'm a vendor and I sell someone a motor and that person admittedly installs said motor themselves and has "problems" with motor, you had better believe I'm going to test the motor when returned to figure out what was wrong. In this case, returned motor was just not set up properly.

You're lucky Dave is a stand up guy and is replacing the motor. Most places would have told you to pound sand because you didn't get it installed by a pro, and rightly so.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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if I'm a vendor and I sell someone a motor and that person admittedly installs said motor themselves and has "problems" with motor, you had better believe I'm going to test the motor when returned to figure out what was wrong. In this case, returned motor was just not set up properly.

You're lucky Dave is a stand up guy and is replacing the motor. Most places would have told you to pound sand because you didn't get it installed by a pro, and rightly so.
Ya i agree, if Dave got the motor back, and it worked fine, then its obviously something wrong with your stuff or how you installed it. And ya, i would be mad about $600 in ship too if it was not my fault, you need to man up and understand that shit happens and deal with it, not get all pissy about delays. If you want a motor here tomorrow call summit and spend $4k
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sherman_thetank View Post
Ya i agree, if Dave got the motor back, and it worked fine, then its obviously something wrong with your stuff or how you installed it. And ya, i would be mad about $600 in ship too if it was not my fault, you need to man up and understand that shit happens and deal with it, not get all pissy about delays. If you want a motor here tomorrow call summit and spend $4k
Well spending $1700 on a motor that dosent work out of the box I would be mad too. For that much there should be nothing wrong with it whatsoever. And spending 4k is too much for 22r unless its built crazy.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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well obviously not. operose had a big problem with the engine. that is terrible work I must say. Already messing up first 7miles and puking green stuff, why? Then when they get it, its fine whatever!
Talk about scam.

If I were operose I would gotten my money back and not a 2nd engine unless it works Dave did nothin to help you out like you posted. And shipping is not that hard either so I dont get what the issue was with that.

I say get your money back and re-build the old one yourself and take your time.
SUPRISE YOUR A RETARD!!! For those of you paying attention the motor worked fine. When it was returned to Dave, he checked it over and installed it into another truck that passes the most anal retentive emissions test in the country. That seems to me to be a install error. And thats a great idea on rebuilding the one you have, that way that truck will never leave your garage. Operose, it seems to me that your one and only complaint is the time that it has taken you to get it, and that being said, you need to disregard the time for the second motor since it was your fault it had to come back in the first place, and in that case, kick rocks.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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To Operose:
It sound like you did not verify the water from the exhaust was coolant. Was it green? Did the exhaust have a bunch of steam? If not, the water was from the carb being too rich and the cat turning it to water. It sounds to me like your carb, and possible other parts have problems that you didn't diagnose.
I will agree that Dave should have communicated a little better. But it sounds like the rest was on you. If it was my business you would be eating shipping for sending back a good engine.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ALL of you would feel differently if it was YOU in his situation. Dave's fucked up IMHO. I WON'T be buying from them EVER. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operose View Post
There wasn't anything wrong with the carb when it came off the motor, and nothing was changed on it.


What does the carb have to do with coolant dumping out the exhaust, anyway?

There were no signs of leakage between coolant passages and the intake runners on the gasket, and the intake runners were dry in the head. Plugs from cylinders 1&2 were fairly clean and totally dry. Plugs from 3&4 were black and also dry. There is no water in the oil

Eagerly awaiting my new Davez motor. I will let you all know immediately if I am a dumbass and this one does the same thing.
The exhaust ports show no sign of water or coolant. Nor was there any signs of moisture in the engine. There was nothing wrong with the engine. I am sorry you had trouble with the install. And if you still dont want one of our engines my offer still stands " send it back and I will give you a refund".
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I fail to see how exactly he fucked up? Unless the original poster has definitive evidence to show that it was dave's fault then I fail to see how it was. I have dealt with dave in the past on some used parts, and when everything that I ordered didn't show up I gave him a quick call, and the parts were at my door by the end of the week. To me that is good customer service. I have come to understand that everyone makes mistakes some times, and their ability to admit to them and make things right is what makes for good customer service. I would have no problems ordering from him again, and in fact am making up a list right now of parts I need for my 2 projects that I will be calling him for sometime this week.

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Old 07-12-2009, 10:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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What does the carb have to do with coolant dumping out the exhaust, anyway?


To address this directly, the cat will turn hydrocarbons into water then it exits the exhaust. Laymans terms, carb dumps gas, cat dumps water.
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