OK, I know there is a fairly new topic already, on LS motor's, but it is a little off topic for my question. This comes up after reading an article in fourwheeler mag, stating some unforseen expense, on swapping in LS style motors.
I recently found a 5.3 with 190,000 on it. but I can get the whole motor, all accessories, wiring harness and computer for 350 bucks. I haven't committed to buying it yet. But after reading the article in fourwheeler, it leaves me wondering what else I don't know about the swap that everyone else says is so easy and cheap. The motor comes from a 02 model truck, and if I purchased it, it would be going into my 1980 chevrolet. The biggest thing that I did not know prior to reading the article was that the bell housing bolt pattern was different, and would not work with my TH400. I have the option to swap in my SM465, which has the removable bell housing, but is there one out there to fit the motor?
What other little tid bits are good to read up on, or sometimes over looked in order to perform the motor swap? Thanks.
And for the flame seekers. I did search, but found nothing that had my answer's, without reading through someones jeep build.
Is a 400 (3L80) pattern the same as a 700r4 (4L60)?
I believe you just don't put the upper passenger side bolt in. The lsx motors had a hole in the center at the very top. But omitted the upper passenger side bolt (4l60e). The older transmissions didnt have a top hole(700r4 / 4L60).
Yes the bell pattern is the same, except for the missing bolt hole as not2hye posted.
And do NOT drill and tap the missing hole, you will go into the coolant passage.
Link to useful info... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705829
I swapped a 5.3 into a 1976 GMC Jimmy it was a piece of cake. As stated the patterns are not different you just have to leave out one bolt big deal. My 5.3 is backed by a TH400/Np205 and I have had no problems at all after driving it for a year. The only thing I can say is get the motor plates that move the motor back one inch and notch out or replace the x member under the front of the motor. Pacific Fab makes a really nice bolt in front x member I went with it and could not be happier.
Thanks for the info guys. Will the stock flexplate from the 5.3 bolt up to the TH400 Torque converter? Or better yet, what fly wheel would be used behind the motor for a later SM465 swap?
rather than post a new thread, i recently swapped a 6.0 into my cucv keeping the th400 but i am getting code p1336, pretty much saying i need to do a crank relearn. what are you guys doing about that? i've read that some are just turning the code off in the tune because the crank relearn won't work.
as long as your PCM is ok and you kept the OBD2 connector, you should be able to connect a Tech2 and do a crank relearn. find someone with a Tech2 or stop at your local GM dealer.
Wahynehartwig on here. $150 PCM tune for life he does hareness rework as well. Search in the vendor section under engines.
The 5.3L will bolt up to the TH400. For the flexplate use either a flat 6.0L it holes will be closer or use a spacer with the flat flexplate and redrill it for the th400 converter. How to do all this is in my SIG
I've done a few, and it's not that cheap or easy. I have to do one more, but only one. It's now to the point where a Chinese turbo can get an old 350 to rival a { cam, headers, and tune } LQ9 for less final cost.
ls all the way, just need flexplate spacer and proper flexplate and it will bolt to any 90degree gm auto, will also bolt to all 90degree manual engines also, they just have a specific crankshaft spacing for flywheels and flexplates. thses new gen enginbes are the best. howellefi has all the comptuer su[pport you'll ever need including running the 4l60/80e off stock ecu. not too difficult just needs a little bit of research much of which is easily found
o sorry figured it was passive anti theft like fords.. im a ford tech and fords are pats
but thanx for the info im gonna build my own harness was just woundering about the security
The stock 4.8/5.3L in stock trucks eat 4l60e's in as little as 30k miles when brand new. I agree the TH400 is far stronger. Stick with it. I would run it if one doesn't need an OD, that said if you need an OD and are running larger tires, and more power then run a 4l80e. Strength of those compare to the TH400.
As far as the th400 being easy to set up, well the 4l60/80e is plug and play. You can change shift points, lock up, line pressure among other things in the tune.
You can also remove the toque management. Which can be removed via the tune GM did this so the 4l60e will live behind the higher output Gen III motors.
I ran mine because that's what I had, then later swapped to the little stronger 4l65. If you keep alittle TQmang. and not keep you foot in it alot the 4l60/65 will work.
I strongly disagree with you. You need to go look under some drag cars with more power than any rock crawler I have ever seen. An LS3 makes ~430HP. A TH400 built correctly with factory GM parts from 30 years ago wont even blink at that much power.
Everything can be made stronger. A stock turbo 400 is not stronger than a stock 4l80e or 6l80e. The 6l80e was designed to go behidn the 7L Vette, which is over 500 horse. What's a 454, 290 horse, tops?
The 4l80 are pretty strong. I seen stock ones take alot of abuse 800HP on a turbo motor. TH400=to 4l80. The TH400 are strong enough period.
Now the 6l80/90 is a different animal its a clutch to clutch trans. I have heard of the 5thGen Camaro guys burning clutches with just a tune on the L99. I am not sure if the fault was due to HP or just shity trans tuners.
Thats one reason GM runs the L99 with the 6l80s its only rated for 400HP, simlar to the truck L92's. Now the CTSV's have the 6l90 it takes 500hp through it.
Correct, it's a clutch on clutch (no more one way clutches or bands that do fail) trans with one forward roller that can be locked if in a manual gear. In otherwords, the guys that are busting them are probably in D and not using the tap up/tap down and manually shifting them. But they are easy to upgrade to make last over 800 ftlbs of torque - basically just replace some steels, so they can handle the additional heat requirements.
The 6l90e is an even higher rated trans, like you say, and they put it in their heavy trucks and the new zl1 Camero, with 580 hp in front of it.
But you guys can keep your old 350/700r4/400/475's and stay in the past. I'll continue forward and run/tune the electronic 'crap' any day of the week.
ladies ladies ladies both are great transmissions. Old school strong and new technology
Personally I like new no adapters plug and play I think most people don't know how to change a drum or want to drill a VB.
FYI I did a 5.3 in my tj..... 400 bucks and has been flawless.
The 4l80 are pretty strong. I seen stock ones take alot of abuse 800HP on a turbo motor. TH400=to 4l80. The TH400 are strong enough period.
Now the 6l80/90 is a different animal its a clutch to clutch trans. I have heard of the 5thGen Camaro guys burning clutches with just a tune on the L99. I am not sure if the fault was due to HP or just shity trans tuners.
Thats one reason GM runs the L99 with the 6l80s its only rated for 400HP, simlar to the truck L92's. Now the CTSV's have the 6l90 it takes 500hp through it.
...Me and my harness guy keep freebies like this to fix customers stuff. If we don't have any $'s in it, we give it away to help keep guys costs low.
The nice part about the 98-00 Vortec PCM's is they will work in 96-97 rigs with a few wire fixes at the PCM connectors. I can't tune the 97 down, but I can do the 98 up....
Drop me a PM with your info if your serious and I'll get you a label :smokin:
All a typical TH400 needs is a sprag upgrade and maybe different clutches (depends on what you're doing with it), along with the direct clutch dual feed mod and a couple other common tweaks and they will handle any stock or tuned LS motor all day long. Biggest drawbacks are no lockup converter and no OD, but neither of those are a big deal for a trail rig.
4L80E is a TH400 with a OD added to the front (between the forward drum and the pump) and electronic controls. They already have a 34 element sprag, so that doesnt need to be messed with. The standard Trans-Go kit does pretty much all the mods needed for the trans. High milers usually have worn out bores in the VB, so a VB rebuild is usually in order. I prefer some of Sonnax's fixes over Trans-Go's (i.e. their valve to fix pressure runaway on the low-reverse servo). Later (99-up IIRC) 4L80e's have a revised OD sprag assembly that is more resistant to roller-cocking-sideways failure, but the updated sprag is smaller and weaker than the older unit. If you have an older one with the older sprag it's not worth "upgrading" to the new sprag unless the inner and/or outer race are trashed.
Don't know much about the 6L80/90, other than the TCM is internal, they are fairly reliable behind stock engines, and the stamped splined clutch hubs spin apart if you try to run them behind a stout engine. Also, despite being clutch-to-clutch it still relies on a roller clutch, whereas the Allison clutch-to-clutch transmissions are completely free of roller clutches, sprags, and bands.
Straight from the Novak website:
5.3L engines are usually only factory available with the flexplate that mates to the 4L60E transmission and these motors were not available with a flywheel. However, 4.8L and 6.0L flywheels do interchange onto the 5.3L as the cranks are of a unified design and all Gen. III motors are internally balanced.
I was thinking that..Ive seen stock 400s run low tens and high nines at 3400 lbs.Car usually traps at 128-130ish at 33ft above sea level..My forman has that tranny behing a 472 in a 80s coupe deville running 11.20s..Drives it daily and beats on it..Its a stock rebuild with no high zoot parts other than a converter from Freddy brown.
My sisters GN ran 9.50s with a 4L80E.Always went through the traps in 3rd gear though, so i cant say how strong 4th is..But both are underrated in stock form id say.IIRC that was a fresh GM reman tranny that Dan Smith scored for her when the car was built.
i wonder how GM rates the capacity of the tranny's?
How are you running your 5.3L
I'm fixing to do a 5.3 swap in a 91 s10 and i want to run a rachet shifter in the floor with a THM400 but idk if it will work with a electronic fuel injected motor since they came with a 4L60E and they dont make a rachet style floor shifter for the 4L60E
opinions and advice is HIGHLY appreciated
To use the Th400. Use a crank spacer, redrill flexplare bolt to motor. (link in my sig how to do it. Rework harness to standalone. Tune PCM to remove electronic trans items. Enjoy.
It is really as easy($$$) or hard($) as you want. It's also as cheap or expensive as you want it to be.
You can buy pre-made harnesses and kits to help the thinking or you can junkyard fab it from donor trucks and only pay for the PCM tunes.
We put a '99 5.3 in my dads '66 burban and was pretty easy considering. We used the 4L60 as well for the OD. Most of the parts were off the shelf for the '99 engine or the '66 truck with the throttle pedal cable being one of the only one-off's.
There are allot of nickle/dime details that will wear you down but if the goal is just a driver then I think you could save allot of money buy using the stock truck parts, very cheaply too.
If you want more of a hot rod feel then you might have to throw some dollars at it.
In our case the truck had a 283/powerglide in the truck and required a 350 long block/carb/intake/headers etc. along with a th350/th400 or 700R4 trans. If you take the best prices you think you can spend on those items you will be hard pressed to do it cheaper than the 5.3/4L60 combo from a junkyard for $700-$1000.
If you do go old tech you will still have old tech, no fuel injection, no overdrive. Don't get me wrong those systems still work like they did new but the benefits to FI/OD and the new gens of engines are huge in comparison.
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