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1993 3500 ?'s

4K views 38 replies 13 participants last post by  MaxPF 
#1 ·
My beloved 1980 Jimmy wholm I have slaved and bled on is in danger of a trade. Long story short while at a friends house working on a cabinet I was asked if I would trade straight across my Jimmy (10 front 14 rear sm465/205 4" BDS all springs 35" procomp near new and a sweet ass grenade shift knob!!) for his 1993 4x4 3500 6.5 turbo diesel single rear wheel crew cab long bed. I know nothing about diesels, nothing :( I have been told that the transmission doesn't shift up to overdrive and the engine may have some sort of "knock". Asking the fleet mechanics at work (all ford ambulances) they said that the 6.5 were/are really loud engines and that a knock could just be a faulty injector. I freely admit my failings as a diesel guy, only ever worked on gassers, what if any info can the sage minds of the Pirate can give me as to advice? I know if there is oil leaking out the front of the turbo is bad but thats really about the limit of my hands on knowledge. Looking at wiki and other sites there were 2 injections mechanical and electronic. Folks considered the engines weak but dependable with only negative marks towards the IFS front and transmissions. I dont know if its the 700r4 or 4L80E? Search button was used, found a bunch of SAS info and FS postings. Is this a good trade or what would be the smoking guns to look for in a busted POS? Thanks guys, Mark
 
#2 ·
All I am going to say (and its only because I hate to let someone be suckered that hard) is that, it is not worth your time to even think about dealing with a 6.5 if you know nothing about diesels. They can be a good motor once built, but are shittastic in stock form. They are pretty notorious for shitting the bed. But, then again, Ive heard of some going "200,000 miles". Havent seen it in person though.
 
#7 ·
This...



And this...

A 3500 will have a 4L80E , what do you want out of your vehicle ? A crew cab longbed is very far from a K5. The 3500 has the weaker ifs but everything else in it is decently stout. (Trans/T case, rear axle, frame..). Again what do you want from it. The 6.5 is better then a Ford 6.0 reliability wise but not dead nuts reliable like a 12v.
The Ford 6.0 is by far the biggest piece of shit I have ever laid my hands upon. That said, you need to stick with what you have. The k3500 will cost you a lot of $$$ by the time you yank the 6.5 out ,and throw a bbc in, along with a SAS job in the front... By that time, you'll be needing tires, lockers, and the whole nine yards...
 
#3 ·
Shittastic does not sound good at all! To be honest I giggled at the word itself, we made up a disease at work to represent a patient that was a total train wreck. We would say they had "diarrhea pneumonia". I don't want to have a truck with diarrhea pneumonia.
 
#4 ·
A 3500 will have a 4L80E , what do you want out of your vehicle ? A crew cab longbed is very far from a K5. The 3500 has the weaker ifs but everything else in it is decently stout. (Trans/T case, rear axle, frame..). Again what do you want from it. The 6.5 is better then a Ford 6.0 reliability wise but not dead nuts reliable like a 12v.
 
#5 ·
Well to give you an idea of what their worth in that condition. We picked up a 93, 2500 ext cab, 4wd with a 6" lift and welds with weathered tires for $600. The engine was fresh with under 15k on it and owner had proof. The trans was smoked and it had a fuel leak, oil leak and exhaust leak. They dont really have much value if you ask me and I wouldnt even think about it with a "knock".
 
#8 ·
lol, only on pirate "price of scrap". The wheeling is giving way to practicality for me. I've needed a truck more times than i could count. The prospect of AC and heat after 15 years of not having it is very tempting. Trail running in a crew/long is rediculous but fire trails to out of sight camping is the most I would expect. I've thought about maybe chopping down the back end to a short bed or even shorter to reduce over wheel base. Not researched it though. The milage appeals to me i'm getting 5-8 mpg as it is and can't get worse with a diesel. Prospect of being able to tow, family in the back vs hauling a car seat into the back of Jimmy and crawling back there at every start n stop. The offroad oppertunities have been few and far between. The worry for me is i'm trading my problems for bigger problems. While i'm not retarded, completely, about turning a wrench I truly don't know how much more difficult or expensive diesels are to work on. Automatic trans is same thing, given time(lots of it) i'm sure I could muddle through but I see myself doing it more than once for the learning curve. The uses as I see it are mild towing of cars or a lighter trailer, family hauling, and upgrade in comfort/miliage. The down side is I can't tell a healthy diesel from an abnormal noise making diesel. I do apprecieate all the comments. Is the 6.5 turbo that big of a waste? Have you all had bad experiances with it? What were they? Where are the faults? My Jimmy has no ac/heat, no lockers, no winch. I've tried to tow but anything bigger than a fishing boat is losing battle. Starting to blow a little start up smoke. It wouldn't be a dd for me but I don't know how much retooling i'm going to need. I'm frustrated at the unknown of a new to me truck and while i do know that money will fix all, the upsides of being able to haul and fit family so much easier is a very hard draw to resist. If I do this will I find ways of bolstering the limitations and build it out to be a reliable truck? Its a lot of questions for the situation I know :shaking: id find it hard to believe that you yourself haven't been in similar situations. The intardnet has nothing but sucess stories of reliable running diesels like this one but here its completely not worth it. I'm shading towards doing it with the warning of probably alot of work. The crux is the killer high dollar part or parts that kill projects like this.
 
#10 ·
Well these trucks are by no means power houses. You will notice that towing with a small block is pretty damn close in power. Fuel wise they are great and noise wise they sound like a rattle box pos. They are very reliable if left in stock form with no real abuse in my opinion and the only thing they are good for is towing on flat ground. If it has a knock, you better hope its a bad injector. Repairs and keeping them on the road can far outweigh what they save in fuel and you better have alot of patience. Just my 2cents.:grinpimp:
 
#11 ·
It's true, those trucks have some of the shittiest interiors GM ever turned out. Nothing but hard, squeaky, brittle plastic with flimsy switches.

Have you looked into how much you could sell your blazer for, and then shopped for other trucks in the same price range? I'd do that before trading for a truck with a dubious engine and a smoked transmission.
 
#12 ·
Trim cant be worse that the blazer it's held together with mostly mud lol. I couldn't outright sell my beloved as is as all the smog gear seems to have changed location :eyeroll: his headache is smog mine will be new problems to solve! 4l80e has a gremlin in the no OD dept many sights and info about that. I think the absolute deal breaker is going to be that knock. If my buddy whose coming on sat and wrks on these all the time says rod I'll just scrap the idea and start getting ready to smog my old girl.
 
#13 ·
well i'm back to a fifty fifty decision, guy just awnsered my odometer question (it has an electronic dash and I couldn't eyeball miles through the window) "over 300,00" :eek: he said a new motor went in 50k ago. Are there any giveaways if the motor was truly replaced or is it a tear it down to find out? My buddy who works on the 6.2 6.5's is coming saturday to help me id the knock sound. I'll scrap the idea all together if I figure out the motor is original and save him the 2 hr drive here. sigh hope is now a distant match in the tunnel of shame.:homer:
 
#15 ·
lol G.O.F. I know my heads up my ass on this one but I cant shake the dream. I've been looking for a diesel suburban/crewcab at a price I can afford in my area for a while now. This long bed crew seemed to be the best deal yet for a family rider/hauler. If my buddy is not truly impressed and drooling over the condition of the engine and trans i'm just going to let this die and continue the search.
 
#19 ·
WTF! You are a smart man...You are looking @ more than just the tranny & engine knock. You are looking at vehicle that has 300000 MILES! EVERYTHING is going to be worn. Think about ball joints, steering box, Seat suspension, cab & box mounts, radiator, precious A/C! ALL OF IT HAS 300000 MILES ON IT!

burban for $1500 http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/2787866801.html

nother one with a big block $1800 http://modesto.craigslist.org/pts/2821814541.html

hell here is a 98 for 2500 http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/2818381122.html

and here is what K5's are going for:

$2700 in shape like yours http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2820354669.html

turd of a balzer for $2K http://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/2817802592.html

Nother one $2K http://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/2813457429.html


Do I make my point yet! Don't get some pos IFS knocking tranny gremlined pain in the ass when you can get what you really want & not deal with a worn out truck ready for the scrap heap...you gonna trust that 300000mile truck to take you out in the middle of the woods with your family? Listen to reason man!
 
#21 ·
you wait til now to drop that on me? you suck its too late shes gone (not proud but I did cry, that truck had more of my blood on it than oil in it (has a pretty good leak so really not that much)) besides a 91 i'd be back under the thumb of the man. I don't know why you laid into me like that, ouch.

G.O.F. Sincerely thank you for your stern warnings and head shakes I go into this eyes wide open. I will be learning about diesel repair and maintenence from those here at PBB as well as my friends in the business. I sincerely hope you will put the screws to me about this decision while enlightening me to the world of the oil burner's. To the others who did in fact read and contribute thank you thank you thank you.
I got a tip that it may be a harmonic balencer issue, its more of a clacking noise, irregular at idle, gets regular with rpms going up, goes away with rpms going down. I have a clip I can email to sombody if they would like to listen. I'm 90 percent sure its not rod or main bearing knock. I look forward to my labor with joy. I love to work on trucks. I'm sure now I will get plenty of practice :) Thank you PBB! See ya all real soon.
 
#23 ·
Shamed with a new certificate from the school of hard knocks and a special idiot endorsement I watched it roll out on the back of a tow truck. Die you miserable pos truck die. You all were so so so right. Thee end.

Never did find the knock.........
 
#25 ·
Probably because you didn't pull the trans and inspect the flexplate. Common failure on 6.5's. Makes a nice knocking sound. $130 for a new flexplate and you would've been on the road. Oops...

Hey, it was a learning experience, right? :laughing:
 
#24 ·
we had a 95 i think it was that came into the shop a few months back, has every problem with with the 6.5 you can think of. injector pump going out, glow plug problems, leaking out of everything. very nice clean dual rear wheel truck he picked up for like 1500. i told the boss to tell him to just scrap the engine and put a 454 or even a 350 in it and you will have a great truck but he wouldnt do it, rather him spend all the money to fix the crappy engine
 
#32 ·
Nope, not 100%. But, since the obvious harmonic balancer wasn't the problem and the crank isn't in pieces, it's a damn good bet.

I never said the 6.5 is better than a Cummins. I said Cummins swaps are overrated. I have one, so I sure as fuck know what I'm talking about.
 
#33 ·
I have read some stuff on the 6.2 and 6.5. Seems they live the longest when built to marine specs with the lower compression ratio (18.1 I think), studs, a block girdle, aftermarket harmonic balancer, just to name the major stuff. I think the crank breakage is attributed to the damaged balancer left unrepaired. Given the weight of the Cummins, if I could start with a good 6.5 block and crank I would not be hesitant to build one of these engines. Just do the research and do all the fixes. I have no idea of the cost of the 6.5 modifications compared to a Cummins swap, but I do know there are some marine spec 6.2 and 6.5 GM diesels out there with over 300,000 miles on them.
 
#34 ·
I wouldn't spend money modding or rebuilding a GM 6.5. The blocks are just too weak and fragile. You'd be better off buying a brand new P400 and dropping in the truck. Or a gas engine.

Cummins swaps are popular, but they have a lot of drawbacks, beginning with the fact that a newer engine is expensive and older engines are old. There are other downsides that don't become apparent until the swap is done. By then, swappers will ALWAYS rationalize their decision and try to convince others that it is a good idea in order to convince themselves it wasn't a bad idea.

If I knew now what I knew then, I'd have a gas 6.0 or 5.3 in my truck rather than a Cummins. I still might. If you really want a Cummins, go buy a Dodge. That way, when you realize it costs a LOT more to own than you thought it would and doesn't get near as good fuel mileage as everyone lies about, it will be easier to sell and recoup most of your money. At the very least it will be easier to rationalize your bad purchase decision.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Dodge didn't make a crew cab in the early 90's so I will still just put a cummins in my Ford.

Also just4cuz good luck getting an 18:1 ratio idi to start in the cold.

6.2's are about the cheapest to rebuild, but if you are going to mostly tow with it you may want something better, if you just want mileage then not a bad way to go.
6.5's are boat anchors.:flipoff2:
 
#36 ·
I'd like to mention that the flex plate was not inspected as it was slated for when the motor was pulled. However the missing glow plug lead to a head pull and turbo inspection which neither passed muster. Learning experience yes. Bad experience........ Meh I'd say it was fair. I learned a lot and met a lot of people and expanded my tool declaration so not all bad. I wouldn't call cummins swaps bad ideas if all the planets line up I think their economical problem solving and fun to do. But it's a big if, mine never lined up. What ya gonna do?! I'm happy I finally gave up the dream. Oh and I never drove it other than around the block, once. Lol
 
#37 ·
Sorry to hear you only drove it once. If it was early enough to avoid California smog I would have dumped a gas engine in it.
I had a buddy with a square body crew cab single wheel. His 6.2 kept going through starters and was nickel and diming him to death. He got tired of the diesel and we swapped in a 350. It worked out well except for the torque converter. We thought we could get away with the diesel one but the stall was to low to work right with the 350. Once we changed that it was fine. It was no tow monster, but you could load 4 folks and all your gear for a fishing or camping trip and it worked just fine for a 2wd with a G80 14 bolt FF.

Also bftrain the first write up I saw was a 6.2 with a banks kit on it out of Montana. He said with a properly functioning glow plug system and a block heater he had no troubles starting at 18.1 compression.
 
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