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putting a 6.0 motor in my 67 chevy

3K views 27 replies 10 participants last post by  sdautofab 
#1 ·
I'm looking into putting a 6.0 in my pickup and looking for info on the swap.I can buy a complete motor with everything for around 1400 or should I buy a motor and the Painless kit.
 
#2 ·
I wouldn't waste money on the painless shit. I have heard lots of things wrong with their engine harnesses and they have NO good tech support!!!

Buy a take out engine complete have the stock harness reworked and the PCM tuned. Be $500 bucks max for both!
 
#3 ·
BD Turnkey was selling Vortecs with a harness and remapped ECM depending on what programming you want starting at $2k. Wish I had a truck that it would fit in:(
 
#6 ·
That's even more money going with a carb!:rolleyes: By the time you add up the standalone ignition controller, intake, fuel pump, and carb.

Its more money vs just reworking the stock EFI harness, adding an EFI fuel pump/lines, and tuning the PCM.

And in some states against the law to put a carb on an emission motor.
 
#9 ·
I don't think it stupid either. The carb intakes flow well. No matter what fuel system you have these motors will make power. But I think its stupid to spend more money then what you have to.

Now one thing to think about. In some states its against emission laws to run a carb on a EFI motor even when the motor has been swapped into an older vehical if it's used on the steet. So I would check state and fedeal laws.
 
#10 ·
and as for the lack of info by the OP- he might be able to by a long block or a short block and build from there and save a few dollars. i got a 6.0 long block for 225-with 30 k on it. so since it didnt have any wiring or and intake-might not be a bad time to weigh out options as far as price and performance-plus the cost of having it tuned PROFESSIONALLy to get the most powe and then you throw some more parts at it and have to have tunes made and installed. 2012 called and your a dumbass. going carb on a ls is popular and makes great power. so dont be a dipshit-do some research and figure out what is best for YOU, then when you get that far-report back and hopefully someone on the pbb can give you some help or tips.
 
#11 ·
So how is he saving a few dollars going carb?

Carb intake $260
Decent Carb $300
Ignition controller MSD $320
Harness for MSD $86
Fuel pump $30-40
coil packs $100

So that's a grand to save money running a carb!

EFI
New harness $500-$600
PCM $50
Tune $150 for life (waynehartwig on here)
Used truck intake complete $100-$150
Fuel pump and lines $100-150

So its the same $1000 price going EFI if you have noting.

If you got a intake, harness, and PCM already its even CHEAPER!

As far as it being "popular" I wouldn't say that. The majority of Gen III/IV swaps are EFI.

Now like you said "it's what best for you". So enjoy your carb.
 
#12 ·
i am not running a carb, nor would i for a wheeling application on a ls. if he is running a street truck-he could go carb-he could go efi. its the op's choice. i fully understand that both are expensive. the money "savings" i am refering to is the need to get a tune done every time you do any mod. buy new headers-time to get a tune. new exhaust or cam-tune time! that adds up-thats all im sayin. its important again to know what the op wants to do with the vehicle
 
#14 ·
Why yes they do.

But its expensive and use a ford distributor IIR. But has provisions for a mech fuel pump as well.

Its more expensive at $420 bucks just for the cover and drive. Add a distributor, wires, and a coil. It adds up as well.

I believe GM makes it for circle track and racing apps that require a distributor.
 
#16 ·
why is the carb idea so dumb?...they tend to make more power than efi and run awesome. i put one of the gm performance parts ls515 engines in a customers 64 gto, gm rated the engine with 515 horse with the carb and 495 with efi. you almost cant tell its got a carb on it. these motor s are really effiencent and work well with either. if the truck is on the street all the time, carb might not be that bad.
 
#17 ·
The carb is not whats making the power per-say its the intake. The LS carb intake flows really well. These motors make power because the heads flow so well. This is seen in the fact there is a aftermarket SBC block designed to take LS heads and intakes. The good thing about it is it bolts right inplace of a SBC! :D http://www.worldcastings.com/products/motown-ls-iron-block.html



But I have seen a carb intake setup with MPFI and a TB and make nice power as well.

I would rather run a MPFI carb intake with a TB vs running a carb even on the street.
 
#22 ·
found this article about the lq9 6.0 engine. they used the single plane carb'ed intake with both a carb and a 4-barrel throttle body to find some interesting results.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0712_blown_alky_ls/viewall.html

you read the whole article or jump down to efi/carb comparrison


and fyi i have an efi motor in my crawler, i just dont believe it is supieor in all circumstances.
 
#23 ·
Doesn't sound like the OP is looking for a "efi-carb" debate! He wants to know whats the best and cheapest way how to do it. And Bo185 explained it perfectly well as he always does.

Being an "efi" motor why the hell would you swap it over?? Who the fuck cares if the carb makes good power! Does it make sense on a trail rig? No it doesn't!

If you don't like the response, then go back and re-read the thread and ask yourself who derailed the initial question.
 
#24 ·
doesnt say anything about trail rig, says pick-up. the carb intake conversion with msd box is 600 and change. a 600 carb is another 300-350, if the motor has coils nothing else you need to make it run. sounds like it cheaper than making the efi stuff work. doesnt sound like it was derailed to me, some people hating on carbs, all a matter of choice in the end. if it was on the street and i already had carb fuel lines in my 67 pick-up a carb sounds like an easy choice.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Did you even read my post comparing the prices for the two options? Listed prices for everything. I even over figured the EFI stuff.

If you buy a motor complete like the OP stated he was doing then DIY rework the harness with relays $100 bucks, add a fuel pump/lines for $100-150 and then you just need a $150 tune. So for $400 bucks you have running EFI!! To lazy to rework the harness Most place will do this for $250-$300 bucks. So for $600 bucks you have EFI same as a carb.

Its not cheaper to run EITHER one! They are pretty much the same price and more expensive for a carb conversion if you have the EFI parts alreaady when you buy the motor which is most times. Now there is a recoup value of reselling the EFI parts which would off set some of the costs but most times.


Now on the Hot Rod article link I suspect they were on the right track with nozzle angle but they only used 30lb hr injectors. That would have left alot on the table with the L92 heads, it they were duty cycled out or close ,which they probable were at that hp. It might have peaked up with 40lb'ers and more tuning. But it was a magazine article and those are setup for max power not everyday use.

Depends on what you plan to do with a vehicle. In my opinion, carbs work in ideal weather conditions. Obiously, there are rarely 'ideal' conditions present. This leaves you to change jets and tune your carburetor to the changing weather conditions as the day goes on if looking for max power like at the track. On the other hand, EFI systems automatically compensate for changing conditions and even elevations.

As for the argument that carbs make more power over port injection because the fuel helps "cool" the intake manifold. If this were true, what about Throttle Body Injection? EDIT: And if OAT's are 100* or even 80* there is no way a Venturi inside the carb is going to drop temps IAT 80 or 100*!!! It's thermodynamically impossible. Especially with a carb mounted on a steel or AL intake on a internal combustion heat engine.

Its not the runners that drops temps! And it's not a "chemical intercooler" it's the venturi (inside the Carb) that does this. Google venturi effect!!! As air moves through the carb venturi it compressed and expands and there is a temperature drop. Now it will drop some but not enough to effect performance in car engine!

The Venturi effect does happen to effect performance negatively though. One example pistons aircraft engine carb's have this problem. The carb will ice if conditions are right it could even be a 60* day if its little humid. The TB will ice at the blades as the venturi lowers temps as the humid air expanses through it and the water condenses on the blades and freezes even at 60* OAT. They have a setting for carb heat to stop this. They are not mounted on the engine, to use engine radiant heat to help lessen this so its is a problem on those motors. :End EDIT

A carburetor can not do what most EFI system's can do compared by cost. Of which I have shown the cost of both.

I take little stock in magazine articles all they are good for is selling magazines!

The thread was derailed on the 5th post. :D
 
#26 · (Edited)
i mis-labeled the cooling effect of the carb. i wouldnt have even given some iat numbers if i hadn't scene it before. i know some guys in fromn psca that use to run a blow thru carb set-up with a 400 sbc with f2 procharger. they can data log the temps before and after the carb and saw temp drops of 80-100 degrees through the carb( although thses numbers could be skewed becasue i think they were non-intercooled at that time, but shows the cooling advantage). i would assume the cooling effect is greater as airflow is increased but you cant argue with race pack data. on the engine dyno towards the end of the carb days they made 1610 at the crank. they switched to efi with simens 212s and couldnt top the carb'ed numbers(75%duty cycle). the interesting part of their dyno test was the fact that when they switched from the carb to efi, in n/a form the motor lost almost 15 horse. thats with identical fuel consumption numbers, cams heads, everything. just switched to 8 injectors and a 105 throttle body on a super victor. i doubt 212s where out of fuel at 750 horse. i think the thread is fully derailed now but i do like the debate
 
#27 · (Edited)
Ah that's why the numbers were high it's on a boosted motor. There would be a greater drop in IAT across the venturi as the higher pressure (boost) causes great expansion and cooling due to the higher IAT temp the compressor makes! Doesn't count! It a different animal.

I thought the discussion would stay with in reality! the OP doesn't say anything about all out drag race motor. You have just stated information about race motors or dyno queens no real world motors. The burden of proof is on you for your "easy choice".

Can a carb tune for knock? No, if it pings you could damage your motor. So you have to physically pull timing, now the motor will not make horse power. EFI does this instantaneously retaining HP output by advancing or retarding timing. Or can a carb run different fuel 87,93,e85 on the same motor, with out taking something apart? No EFI can switch from any of them by just filling the tank and still run fine.

Guess not.

On an actual street motor they both make similar to the same power. I am sticking with EFI. I never said carb was as stupid choice just that EFI was cheaper on a Gen III/IV motor of which I have pretty much shown.

But I love a good discussion as well of which this is well played sir!

I have three vehicles with a carb. still. One is getting TBI when I get home in April. The other is staying stock and one is an airplane in which I can't change it!
 
#28 · (Edited)
im in complete agreement that efi has well surpassed the capabilites of a carb, i was kinda surprised to see people calling them dumb, and saying things like "your stupid to use one". i had an old 1960 ford f-1 that i transplanted 2001 camaro everything into it. it was really fun truck. had the torque arm in it, the big 12 inch brakes all the way around. i also used the ls1 in the truck. my harness was unsalavageable and a howell efi harness was nearly 700 bones, so i tossed the carb conversion on it from edelbrock with a holley 600dp. i was flat ass impressed with how well the motor ran. the mild cam and wide lsa made it a dream for drivability but screamed all the way to 6500. so i guess i should have formatted my agurment better. just seemed like a carb bash feast. i like efi, and i like carbs. i think them both have their place.
 
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