SAS'ing my 02 Duramax - Garage Build

[hybrid-theory]

Originally Posted by BigChevy644

ballistic fab has just about everything you need to make your tie rod, they have the ends and DOM tubing, and the threaded ends that you weld in for the rod ends. thats the route im going, considering to just buy the X-over steering kit ranges from $400-$600 these days, plus what you've already paid for high steer. i can get everything i need, plus extra tubing for panhard, for less than $300. just another option. but dang grizz, truck is looking sweet as hell!!!!

Spend lots of money with Ballistic!! They got your hook up fo-sho!! lmfao!!

[grizzlyoffroad]

Today: Put zero rate blocks in with the 1.5" shift forward of the axle...much better, got u-bolts made, buttoned up steering with new x-over steering kit (fit perfect), made up brake lines and blead brakes, oil in rear diff, and had to install sloppy old tie-rod until I get one ordered or made. I found out a guy around here makes them out of heavy wall tubing...has the taps and such to make some heavy duty ones that are fully serviceable on each end!

Yeah baby....first test drive! Steering is squirrely with no hydro assist or even any steering stabilizers, but other than that...rides way better than I expected! Can't wait to get the track bar in and I will probably do the sway bar...we will see when the steering and track bar is done, but it sways a bit more than I like around corners right now.

Back at work now for a week, but when I get back...Still to Do:

Front gears and locker install, Warn Premium hub install, track bar, hydro assist, steering output shaft support (still need to get from Toby XXX), lift rear a bit more...probably use the shackle flip kit, 273 transfer case swap, custom drive lines, custom cross member.....DAMN, it still seems like so much when I write it out!! Oh well, I keep reminding myself how nice it will be when it's all done!

Still waiting to get shock back from my tint guy!....ya, that's right, my buddy that does window tinting and invisa-bras. I was laying in bed the other night trying to think of a way to "coat" the fox shocks and keep them from getting thrashed by the Alaskan road salt. I know clear coat won't' last, but the invisasheild stuff should stay tuff! I will let you know how it works out...oh, and BTW, I'm patenting that idea

All new brake components...$416!!



ORD zero rate with 1.5" forward setting



Adding a few more pics of the zero rate install...since I could find no instructions online...besides the description on ORD website. Pretty straight forward, but want to help guys out if I can.

Clamping the spring pack together, cut out old center bolt and put in new bolt after picking which fits your application.



Installed...all that's left is drilling a new hole in the top U-bolt plate for the new alignment of the "center bolt"



Not as far as I would have liked, but much better...



Here she is as of now!....

[wahlstrom1]

It's a nice build, and on a truck that actually gets used.... not just a mall crawler, but I'd rather see the front end come down to level with the back not lift the rear? Just sayin...

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by wahlstrom1

It's a nice build, and on a truck that actually gets used.... not just a mall crawler, but I'd rather see the front end come down to level with the back not lift the rear? Just sayin...

Thanks man. Yes, it's taller than I wanted...but with the axle placement as it is, I can't really go much lower. I'm going to drill new holes the spring perches, 1" back to try and move the axle a bit more forward...but it will still be a back a bit too far. Plus, got reduce the lift in the front it would take a whole nother set of expensive custom springs...where as the rear is cheap and easy to level out. I even have a shackle flip kit setting on the shelf ready to put on and fix the issue.

[swampers1226]

hey just curious but whats the mesurement from the centering pin to the bolt hole for the springs. im sure you probably looked at that already but the pics on the last page look like maybe center pin isnt center on the spring. so is you spin the springs 180* would it push the front axle forward? i dont know the pics are a lil missleading
let me know

[Killroy1942]

Overall, how did you like the kit form ORD? Would you buy the kit again or would you just make your own brackets? Some people say the kit is kinda half assed so that's why i am asking. Truck looks awesome BTW.

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by swampers1226

hey just curious but whats the mesurement from the centering pin to the bolt hole for the springs. im sure you probably looked at that already but the pics on the last page look like maybe center pin isnt center on the spring. so is you spin the springs 180* would it push the front axle forward? i dont know the pics are a lil missleading
let me know

No, the center pin is not centered in the spring pack....I've got it configured so the military double wrap eyes are in the front and this is also the short side of the springs. It's approx 26" from the front wrap to the pin and 28" from the pin to the rear wrap. The problem is...when the weight of the truck sits on the springs, they flatten out considerably and thus shift back towards the rear hanger, as they are designed. Too bad it wasn't another 2" offset towards the front!

I think you guys are being deceived a little by my mud flaps...it's really pretty far from the bottom/rear of the inner fender well. I estimate that I would need about 8" of upward suspension travel before the tire hit the actual fender.....with tires straight on!, while turned is a different story, I admit.

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by Killroy1942

Overall, how did you like the kit form ORD? Would you buy the kit again or would you just make your own brackets? Some people say the kit is kinda half assed so that's why i am asking. Truck looks awesome BTW.

Overall, I like the ORD kit. It's simple, tough and straight forward....I KNOW I could have built similar brackets to do the same job, but they wouldn't have been nearly as "clean" looking as this kit. Plus, they have made adjustments over the years to beef up the places that needed it. The only real adjustment I made was the brace/support between the front hangers...just seems like it needed it. Another nice item is the shock hoops....I've made them before, and it's NOT an easy one-off project (unless you have templates made up) I really think this kit is well worth the money, considering all things including, water jet clean lines/holes and even the powder coating.

[Burn Down]

Dave,
Wow that SOB is big! Looks great! I'm sorry you had as many issues as you did, i guess if it was easy everyone would do it.

Alcan said the springs would settle some after a bit, an inch or two I think? That is why I didn't pull the trigger on rear springs, I was waiting to see what the fronts would settle to. Anyway it turned out great.

We need to put some power into that bad boy now.

Albert

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by Burn Down

Dave,
Wow that SOB is big! Looks great! I'm sorry you had as many issues as you did, i guess if it was easy everyone would do it.

Alcan said the springs would settle some after a bit, an inch or two I think? That is why I didn't pull the trigger on rear springs, I was waiting to see what the fronts would settle to. Anyway it turned out great.

We need to put some power into that bad boy now.

Albert

Thanks Albert! Did you get your parts yet? When I was packing it up, I noticed those Tie Rods ends were a bit loose...wouldn't hurt to get new rod ends from Blitzkrieg!

I'm going to level the truck out and try to leave a zero rate (or small block in the rear set up), then when the front settles, It will be a bit raked like I like...and if it settles more, I can take out the block! We will see.

You need to find me a Monster built tranny before we pour any more fire to coals. It will kick the tranny into limp mode right now if I turn my chips up....usually when it kicks down while passing or mashing on it to rip up a incline. Once I get the tranny upgraded, I definitely want to go EFI live and maybe a bit more turbo.

[Custom Splice]

Just finished Skimming your build looks good man!

[pheany]

I am thinking about doing a solid axle swap into my 2500HD after I get the trans rebuilt. When I do it, I think I am going to go with the Coil Springs over the Leaf Springs for ride quality.

http://bloodyknucklegarage.com/

That guy seems to put together a decent little kit and it is not terribly priced. What your guys think?

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by pheany

I am thinking about doing a solid axle swap into my 2500HD after I get the trans rebuilt. When I do it, I think I am going to go with the Coil Springs over the Leaf Springs for ride quality.

http://bloodyknucklegarage.com/

That guy seems to put together a decent little kit and it is not terribly priced. What your guys think?

If I was to start from scratch, I would try a Coil Over kit like the one from Toby XXX - Lavender Brothers makes. There's nothing wrong with leaf springs, but they just can't compete with the technology and adjustability of Coil over and 4 link. Can't really see what that Bloody Knuckle kit looks like...wish they have more pics.

[grizzlyoffroad]

This post is mostly to answer the questions from other forums, but I thought I would keep you guys updated too..

Sorry guys, I was out of town for a bit....at the annual snowmachine Hill Climbs. No trophies this year, but had a great time.

OK, back to the spring/hanger mystery, and why my axle placement is not further forward...First, I didn't buy this kit from ORD, I got it for a great price from a guy in Fairbanks that collated all the parts, then just never started the project (thanks Albert). SO, I wasn't involved in the original spring and kit choice. After talking with Albert and ORD, it sounds like I have an older kit that was made for "Chevy" springs. ORD used to use Chevy (2.5" wide) springs, but then they were getting quite a bit of sag under the heavy Dmax, so they switched to Ford (3" wide) springs. AND, Albert custom ordered "chevy" springs from Alcan...and they measure 28" from eye to center in the front and 30" from eye to center in the rear....as close as I can tell under load, for a total of 58...hmmm??? Also, I was informed these were supposed to be only about a 6" lift....wow, that's a healthy 6" combined with those hangers!!

Also, as you can see from the follow pic, YES, my front hangers have the bolt hole centered and not shifted forward like the newer kits. I'm thinking since I have plenty of height anyway, I'll move the bolt hole up and forward at least an inch on the front hanger. I seem to have plenty of rearward angle on my back hanger, so I don't think I have to worry about it flipping forward or anything like that. Whatch you guys think?

Here's a perpendicular pic of the front hanger...if anything, the bolt is BACK a little bit, if not centered. I'm thinking of making some adjustments and moving it forward at least an inch.



Here's the front of the hanger...so yes, I'll have to do some cutting and grinding to get the spring mounted up and forward correctly.



And a pic of the rear hanger, seems to have plenty of backward angle...if I was to move the spring 1 inch forward, I don't think I'll have to move the rear hangers forward on the frame.

[2001ChevyZ71]

what size tires are those?

[Killroy1942]

Originally Posted by 2001ChevyZ71

what size tires are those?

40's

[wahlstrom1]

You can move it up and ahead to get the axle forward, but any drop you get in the front is gonna be made up by standing the shackle up straighter out back.

[drew454u]

Originally Posted by pheany

I am thinking about doing a solid axle swap into my 2500HD after I get the trans rebuilt. When I do it, I think I am going to go with the Coil Springs over the Leaf Springs for ride quality.

http://bloodyknucklegarage.com/

That guy seems to put together a decent little kit and it is not terribly priced. What your guys think?

there kit seems to be good. main problem is they have basically 0 internet presence, which in these times is pretty important. There is a build up on here
that i cant seem to find right now.... Im thinking i will be using there kit, or at least there radius arms.

[swampers1226]

Bloody knuckle used to be cage offroad guys. They downsized to bloody knuckle.Peterson 4x4 did a write up on there kit when they were still cage offroad. They did a 2002 silverado 2500 the same one that's on there bloody knuckle web page. It's a nice kit. If you wanna see it look it up as cage sas kit. Anyways they did have a big Internet presence just not in there new name.

[ridered3]

My buddy is running the Cage Offroad sas kit on his 01' 1500 Silverado. Since the kit is made for 2500's he had to adjust almost every bracket, but the guys were very helpful to him during the swap. I would recommend their product if that is what you are wanting to do.

[flatblack83]

Not to jam up this guys build, sorry for that... The only thing thats cage at bloody knuckle garage is some of the designs and fixtures. Alot was changed and jim cole that worked for then now runs his own shop making the parts. I have a build on here that i used the coil spring / radius arm kit from them and it fit decently but not perfect. Took some cutting and extra work to get it all to fit, alot had to be modded. It is a nice well built beefy kit, rides good too. He does answer any questions you have and is pretty quick with email.


Although the leaf spring kits are much easier to do and most do ride rather well, grizzlys prob rides real good since he chose alcans.



Again sorry grizzly for butting in your build...

[grizzlyoffroad]

Originally Posted by flatblack83

Again sorry grizzly for butting in your build...

No problem guys, I like to hear about the other kits too....already trying to decide which I would go with next, when I do a newer Chevy some day.

[grizzlyoffroad]

More progress on the rear suspension, while waiting on new gears and hydro assist to get here:

As usual, the prep of taking off all the shocks, straps, air bags, factory hangers, etc..took most of the time!

Shackle flip kit....as I remember, an absolute mother to get the factory riveted on hangers off!! Finally, I just torched off the head of the rivets and then knocked them out with an air hammer. I tried just grinding them off with a cutting wheel, but with out the heat from the torch, they were still a bugger to knock out. After getting that all off, it was supper simple to bolt on the ORD kit...nice work on these brackets guys, thanks!

I then popped the tires back on and measured to see what I was going to have to do with blocks to level it out....it was REAL close with just adding the kit and leaving my 2.5" block in there (with 8" springs)....it was just about 1" low. The only real problem was that dropping the rear of my springs tipped my pinion angle up too much, with the angled shim built into the spring pack....and shifted the axle forward a bit. SO, I had to tear the springs apart to get the shim out....While I was doing that, I thought I would go ahead and use the ORD zero rate kit to add an inch and kick the axle back an inch.

After drooping the suspension, it was apparent that the air bags were the main limiting factor to my flex. Now, I know this isn't a rock crawler and I will probably never USE any more than 6-8" of suspension travel, but while I'm building this, I might as well play around and make it as good as I can (within reason). I came up with a little slide extension system for the air bags. I simply put a larger tube in the existing bag extension and then a matching "pin" where the bag used to be bolted to. Now, when the suspension unloads, the air bag can slide up the pin and not restrict the rear flex! The ladder bars are the next limiting factor, but I will get to them another day. For now, this thing is working pretty darn well.

The ORD shackle flip kit installed...



Horrible pic, sorry.



I know it's hard to tell from this garage pic, but the truck is much closer to level...about where I want it.



The pinion angle after the flip...needed to take the angled shim out of the spring pack. After taking out the shim, it pointed right where I wanted.



My air bag slide mechanism....welded inside the existing bag spacers.



Now, when the suspension flexes, the bag slides up the pin instead of limiting droop. Just need to adjust my limiting straps so it can't come all the way out.



Here is the zero rates installed in the rear, lifting and inch and pushing axle back an inch...and no, the u-bolt plates aren't in there, waiting on my new longer u-bolts.

[grizzlyoffroad]

Another day of slow progress....

Got the shocks back from a buddy that put Invisasheild on them, to keep the road salt from ruining them instantly! If this ideas works, I'm going to have to patent it! Every nice shock you put on a rig in Alaska is ruined the first winter. Put the shocks on the front and gave him the rear to do.

Finally got the rear suspension wrapped up with getting the limiting straps adjusted correctly, adjusting the ladder bars for the new length and moving the passenger side shock mount to the rear of the axle. Then make new upper shock mounts in the factory crossmember. Not a huge amount of throw, but enough for this truck

Got my new gears, so turned attention back to the front. Spent most of the day tearing the hubs apart (again!) installing the gears, then reinstalling the axles and hubs. Since I was starting with a blank diff, it took about 6 times to get the gears set up right...pisses me off, but they are looking pretty good in there with the new E-locker.

Of course, ran into another snag. I welded on my blocks to the hub, that hold the ABS sensor, holding it barely from touching the tone ring....and it hits inside the brake rotor!! The only thing I can think of is to get the inside of the rotor machined....there's just not enough clearance between the tone ring and the rotor. I am going to try shaving one of the old sensors down first and see how much "extra" material there is in the plastic/rubber button that the wire is molded into.

Got the brackets moved so that both shock with be mounted on the rear of the axle.



I love how much droop you get out of a SFA compared to the old IFS



Front E-locker is finally in after messing with gears half the day!



New Warn Premium hubs in place, with ALL new bears, seals, etc. All worked out great besides the darn ABS sensor.



After climbing up a little hill, all looks good on the downhill side..



But as we suspected, that axle HAS to be moved forward quite a bit...the uphill side hits.



The truck leveled out nicely though. I'm parked on a slight uphill angle here, so it looks higher in the front, but the body line measures exactly and the inner finder well is about 1" lower in the rear. After the front springs sagging a bit, it should be about perfect!

[grizzlyoffroad]

Ya baby!...getting this beast dialed in!

Finished up the front axles, hubs, etc....then moved the front hanger mount bolt home forward 2". This made a big difference as you can see by the pics below! Installed the track bar, but didn't like the way it sat...so I fabricated new hangers and spring pack mounts so that is would sit level with my steering drag link and not hit my oil pan at full flex. Installed the new rear shocks and went for a test ride....SWEET.

I know it sounds crazy, but it rides and handles better than stock and flexes better than I ever could have imagined! I love it....can't wait to get my transfer case swapped out and my new drivelines built. This thing is turning better than I hoped. I can now even fully stuff the front tire and get massive (for a tow rig flex on all four corners.

New hanger bolt location..



Dropped upper track bar mount.



Track bar location



New rear shocks in place...not that I need remote res, but they came with the kit!



Some flexing and stuffing...