Show me a cracked 14 Bolt center section

[TrailTamer XJ]

I save those pic from other thread in here. Don't remember who

[offroadmatt]

Originally Posted by BRORSAM

Okay, a housing break on a trussed axle---you have our attention. Quick backstory available on the incident? Judging from the pinion yoke, I'm guessing a fair degree of violence was involved.

Turns out when you fall off this wall backwards at full throttle. Something has to give. I'm just glad it wasn't my brand new Atlas. It was one of those times when you know you should let you, but you don't. Totally my fault but 14B took the brunt of it.

[AllGoNoShow]

Nothing to add other than you might get more responses in Gen4x4.

[bark beetle]

Everything can be broken under the right (wrong) circumstances, so there is no point in trying to make an "unbreakable" axle.

The harder you abuse your truck, the heavier it gets, the more power you need, the more strength you need, the heavier it gets

As previously stated, but not in one place, a truss serves four purposes:

1. Reduce the chance of the tubes bending but only if the truss is full width (i.e. Desert Trucks, or anything you are going to jump or run through the whoops or otherwise get stupid with)

2. Reduce the chance of the tubes spinning out the plug welds which can crack the housing.

3. Serve as a mounting point for links because we cannot easily weld strong link mounts to a cast housing.

4. Make your truck too heavy to move................

I bought the GenRight 14B truss from a friend because he didn't really like it and I like the general box design for lighter weight with good strength (It's all 1/4"). I am not a fan of the 3/8-1/2 plate trusses, those are only good for a link mount platform and reducing the tube spin problem. If you are going to truss, might as well go full width and keep it as light as possible to get benefits from the 1st three points above but don't make it with heavy plate.

An I-beam is the lightest strongest shape for a beam when the load path is known (vertical mostly) not good for torque, Box is next, round is last. Round is first for torque which is why axle tubes are round until the box ones are so thick and massive, that the vertical load problem exceeds the torque problem (Rockwells).

With the GenRight truss, I have a box, good for horizontal and vertical loads, ok but not great for torque (spinning the plug welds) and I am going to extend it to the shock mounts with the bump stops incorporated to make it truly full width. I would never use anything thicker than 1/4" in a truss, weight goes up to fast and strength doesn't with thicker stuff.

On a side note:
I had an interesting conversation with ORD, they have had problems with tubes spinning (leaf sprung, no truss) so they added additional plug welds because the stock ones are crap as observed by many including me. Problem solved for their application. I considered doing this but decided the truss was going to take care of this problem.

Hopefully this will help you get Sam to buy or make something quickly that isn't as heavy as the war wagon!

[LOGANSTANFORTH]

I used to have a a pic of one that had been cut in half by the center pin. It was in an 1100 horse sled puller...

[BRORSAM]

Originally Posted by bark beetle

Everything can be broken under the right (wrong) circumstances, so there is no point in trying to make an "unbreakable" axle.

The harder you abuse your truck, the heavier it gets, the more power you need, the more strength you need, the heavier it gets

As previously stated, but not in one place, a truss serves four purposes:

1. Reduce the chance of the tubes bending but only if the truss is full width (i.e. Desert Trucks, or anything you are going to jump or run through the whoops or otherwise get stupid with)

2. Reduce the chance of the tubes spinning out the plug welds which can crack the housing.

3. Serve as a mounting point for links because we cannot easily weld strong link mounts to a cast housing.

4. Make your truck too heavy to move................

Hopefully this will help you get Sam to buy or make something quickly that isn't as heavy as the war wagon!

There may be no point in trying to make an "unbreakable" axle, but I think this thread has appropriately exposed a potential weak link worth addressing for my application. From what I've seen here, Im less concerned about tube bending, and more concerned about the tubes spinning in the casting, or the casting itself breaking from the leverage of the tubes. Not concerned about mounting points for links. I've been running basically the same setup since 1993---no issues there.

As for the weight...I spent my fair share of time underneath the War Wagon while it was at my shop. Not taking anything away from Soni's fabrication efforts at all, but it didn't necessarily represent the best value proposition of added strength versus added weight.

[bark beetle]

I wasn't trying to knock the war wagon, it is a very cool looking truck. After re-reading my comment it could be viewed as me knocking his fabrication. Wasn't trying to do that.

[BRORSAM]

Originally Posted by bark beetle

I wasn't trying to knock the war wagon, it is a very cool looking truck. After re-reading my comment it could be viewed as me knocking his fabrication. Wasn't trying to do that.

I guess my post could be construed the same way, but same here---not knocking the War Wagon. I'm just saying that a different application of the same amount of added material could have resulted in an even stronger stucture. I've got no doubt that the thing really did weigh every bit of the claimed 8500 pounds, but I know similar strength could have been achieved with less metal added. All a matter of geometry, just as your analysis of different truss geometry suggests.

You are also 100% correct in your observation that without somebody else keeping me on my toes, I might easily go astray and build something heavier than it really needs top be.

[FordX4-offroad]

Originally Posted by BRORSAM

I guess my post could be construed the same way, but same here---not knocking the War Wagon. I'm just saying that a different application of the same amount of added material could have resulted in an even stronger stucture. I've got no doubt that the thing really did weigh every bit of the claimed 8500 pounds, but I know similar strength could have been achieved with less metal added. All a matter of geometry, just as your analysis of different truss geometry suggests.

You are also 100% correct in your observation that without somebody else keeping me on my toes, I might easily go astray and build something heavier than it really needs top be.

i would honestly like to see something out of .125 cold rolled plate, and a 14ga. internal honeycombed structure...
but i realize the immense amount of work required for something like that to happen. and in the end it wouldnt really be any lighter than a truss made from 3/16" plate...

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

I made my front truss out of 1/8" plate with another 1/8" topper, I used 1/4" inside for the upper link mount though. And 3/8" for the bump pads with more 1/4" to reinforce them with. It was the lightest and strongest thing I can do.

I will soon be doing the same to the rear. I think that Sam should do it also. I agree with go full width, no (good) reason not to. I do think that axle tube bending should be a worry.

[94toytruck]

I saw this as I was scrolling down. I dont have pic's but mine is has a crack at the center section between the diff cover and plug weld. Its got a BTF truss with pinion support tie in on it and its in a toyota with a 4cyl. When you tie it down on the trailer it will leak gear oil from the crack. Both spindle's are bent on it as well.

New axle has a Artec truss with RS chromo spindle's, hopefully that holds up better.

[BRORSAM]

Originally Posted by FordX4-offroad

i would honestly like to see something out of .125 cold rolled plate, and a 14ga. internal honeycombed structure...
but i realize the immense amount of work required for something like that to happen. and in the end it wouldnt really be any lighter than a truss made from 3/16" plate...

Originally Posted by K5runner@hotmail.com

I made my front truss out of 1/8" plate with another 1/8" topper, I used 1/4" inside for the upper link mount though. And 3/8" for the bump pads with more 1/4" to reinforce them with. It was the lightest and strongest thing I can do.

Good thoughts guys, but I'm afraid that 1/8" / 14 gauge / honeycombs / dimple dies, and the like just aren't quite my style. I'm a heavy plate / rectangular tube kind of guy, even if it means the result ends up heavier than the average truss. I'll probably just end up ripping a length of square tubing lengthwise as a starting point.

Started playing with some truss ideas, and I think this is about as far as I'll be able to get the ends to the new spindles: