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Old 05-19-2003, 10:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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TOTW #9 - Solid axle swap in S-10/S-15

Have you got questions about swapping out your IFS for a solid axle in your S-series pickup, baby Blazer or baby Jimmy?

Have you done this swap? Do you have any tips or tricks for people interested in doing this?

Lets get all the info here in one place!
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Old 05-19-2003, 11:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Info for doing this swap is getting put back into one place. After the "webmaster issues" at s10-4x4.com, most moved to www.s10extremist.org

Still working on getting the server up and running, and that should be done in June or July, God willing. The direct link to the BBS is www.s10-4x4.org That will route you to an EZBoard we have set up for now.

Honestly, an SAS on an S-series is alot more involved than what can be laid out into one thread, but to lay it out in it's simplest form, it's no different than what any other SAS is. Cut out the old, and weld in the new.

Big hurdles involved are crossmember issues, shackle placement, and getting the chosen axles to fit and work.

The most common axle to swap in are the Dana 30's getting ripped out by the Heep guys, but axles out of a first gen Bronco fit and work best. A Dana 44, 9" combo are only 3/4" narrower than stock, and have great aftermarket support. The best set-up for axle and suspension combos are to cut everything out from under the first gen Bronco, and weld everything back under the S10. From there, suspension mods and tech issues can be solved in the Ford section, the same way the Toy and Heep guys come here for engine tech.

PDaddy's thread on his swap is also a great source for info.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=130486
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Old 05-19-2003, 11:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the links Scott but I want to get some of that info here rather than sending people other places to find it.
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Old 05-19-2003, 11:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If the info is there, it's there. I can understand wanting to get the stuff here, but we have worked hard to get that kind of S-Series info in one spot and wanted to show off what we have a little.

I sent PDaddy a PM about this TOTW. He should be in here tomorrow to go through his swap.
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Old 05-20-2003, 06:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Ill start at the meat of the swap front axle choice..

D30 out of a YJ PROS= cheap, plentiful, width is near enough to stock width of an S10. Its leaf sprung so no links to fuss with mounting even with a spring under (no mod to axle housing) you can expect to gain 4-5 inches of lift over stock
CONS= weak axle for heavy wheeling restricted tire size. Vacuum disco thingy really sux unless you pony up for a cable actuater (to much money in my opinion) not any real easy cheap way to do a x over hy steer. You can get a cherokee long shaft and eliminate the vaccum thing, but then you have it locked in permanently (remember there arent lockouts on this axle and its expensive to convert)

D44 out of an EB someone else should get on this one, I understand the strength gains and such, but havent done one this way.....

For the FULLSIZE CROWD HP D44 out of fullsize p/u (look for late 70's 78-79) Here is the scoop I first did mine with a D30 out of a YJ for 2 reasons. I knew the spring perch width was the same as this axle leaving me a bolt in swap when I could afford to upgrade and go full width. The HPD44 I got came out of a 78 F250, it had the dual piston Dayton calipers (same as a D60) and 8 lug outters. This is a strong axle for moderate wheeling and is nearly indestructable under a light S10 with a 4.3L. You have many options for lockers/gears, and you have lockouts so you can lock it up, unlock the hubs and still street drive it, were with the 30 it becomes a hassle with a front locker on the street.
HPD60 ahhhhh I came across one after I spent the money on new gears and all for my HP44 this is a sweety, I had to sell mine to fund other projects so I never put it under the blazer. The thing is also a same width spring perch center to center as the D30, D44 so again nice bolt in (ish) upgrade for leaf spring setups that started at a D30's width.

NOW if you go with the D30 front you will most likely have to regear your factory 10bolt, (which still leaves you with mismatched wheel bolt patterns)....or For simplicities sake, get the stupid D35 out of the same YJ then you have same gears, same wheel bolt pattern. Discussing the issue of strength between a 10 bolt and a D35 is a dead issue in my eyes obviously using this combination either way you slice it you are going to have to realize the limitations of your straight axle swap.

with a 9 rear you have a good setup with lots of options, also one could round up a 8.8 and have some nice options and possibly disc brake in the rear with the right choice. I havent experienced either so again if someone else has more on these 2 rear axle options step in...

FULLSIZE REAR...... if you have the width in front you need it out back and what cheaper way to do it than with a D60 rear... Here is the story most are 30spline which up until just recently there were no spools for them, now that there are they are too damn expensive IMO. You are limited with lockers on a 30 spline, the ones you can get are $$$$ so I opted to weld mine.... Im sitting a full floating 30 spline axle behind a 4.3 with only 36's though so I dont see me breaking a 60 real soon....knock on wood. This can be converted to disc really cheap, I think I have about 130 bucks into my conversion and everything is brand new.

14FF This would probably be a smarter choice than a 60 more locker options at a better price *I think* I havent messed with a 14 so Ill leave that to someone with hands on..

Ill come back later and get into the suspension stuff give me a minute to actually do some work at work
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Old 05-20-2003, 06:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Things that are obvious to remember when choosing axles (for the newbs... )

Gear ratios...can you set them up yourself? You wanna pay for that regear on a say 10bolt or D30 or whatever...dont dump a bunch of money into these you will regret it *IF YOU WHEEL HEAVILY* very quickly...I started out with a D30/D35 combo. I built mine to wheel and realized very quickly the limitations this combonation gave me. Im not saying it didnt work and I didnt like it, but I sure would have waited for my fullwidths and done it the first time because that made a huge diffrence for what I wanted to do with my truck. Im not pointing fingers and to each his own, Ive seen alot of straight axled S10 that never get wheeled or dont get wheeled hard so decide up front what direction you want your truck to take and save yourself time and money from the start.

Wheel bolt patterns........ how many spares do you want to carry?

Take into account your local laws on lifted trucks and tires and such. That is if it will still be streeted in any manner.
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Old 05-20-2003, 07:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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FRONT SUSPENSION... If you want to build a linked frontend, do the reasearch and do it correct. IF you are going to be cheap and easy like me then leaf springs are your friend! I have heard of a bunch of diffrent combinations for leafs.
YJ leaf springs
2 sets of rear S10 springs combined (obviously some leafs pitched and what not)
Waggys...on and on
Here is what it boils down to, when you do a straight axle on an S10 unlike the Toyota guys who all seem to do it in the exact same matter, noone has really said THIS is the way to do it. So what I would suggest again research and ask people what they have done and decide how you want to do it. Your leaf springs and front spring hanger and shackles all need to work together so fit and test all this before you weld it up and call it good (again this should be obvious) *side note I spent a full day tryin diffrent combinations of springs and spring rates, and still wasnt happy.... My front has had at a minumum of 8 diffrent spring packs under it, I dont have money for custom springs and this is what I did to save a penny or two I wouldnt advise it because after it was all said and done I still bought a set of highdollar springs which I again altered.....I am happy now though

With leaf springs up front you will have issues with rear shackles clearing frame rails and what not because the frame rails arent bent the same as they taper inward around the area you will put your shackle. Plan to fab or modify mounts back here for your shackles... I didnt want to have my shackles hangin down under the frame rails as many do so I used an exsisting hole for the mounting point and modified around hangin my shackles from that point. I still need to correct a few small things with this but it has worked really well for me. I used Ford shock towers P/N E5Tz18183A from a dealership they were 13.25ea and weld on rather nice. You will have to clear off all the brackets on the frame rails (I actually left the forward upper A-arm mount it wasnt in the way and was an easy mount for limiting straps) you will also have to cut the crossmember that is under the steering box back and clearance it for a droppped pitman arm, unless you change steering box's all together. I run a Dropped YJ pitman arm, also known as a stock Cherokee arm and cross over steering right now. Brake lines up front are simple and adapt without issue I used SS lines for a lifted YJ from Rubicon Express. They worked on the dual piston calipers on my HP44 as well. Youll want to pull the hardline down abit and remount it and check that your lines are long enough for the travel you get.
*STEERING ON A D30 SETUP* its going to suck no matter how you cut it, hysteer on these is expensive , research Jeep forum if interested in it. I made a bent draglink with thick wall tubing , it worked at the time but was really sloppy for my liking.

FRONT D SHAFT. Call Jess seriously though for the JY guys that want a CV get a older cherokee front shaft from a fulltime one. Its CV and you can make it work easily. Your tranny/tcase cross member will have to be modified or build a new one, I welded in a summit racing Dshaft hoop and I like it because its above the frame rail and looks nice. Pretty straight forward. U joint kits can be bought rather easily if needed as well.
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Old 05-20-2003, 08:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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First off, I haven't done a SAS on an S-10, but am very interested in doing it. A search didn't do much for my question, or maybe I'm a dumbass and didn't even read it right, what are the axles in the pick-ups and Cherokees?? A friend of mine owns a junk yard and has alot of these in there. I'm not a big fan of full width axles, or tires that stick out a foot from the wheel well. I like the stock look, with bigger tires. I know that the early Broncos have the right width to them, but what about some others?? Speaking of width, does anybody have the widths of stock S-10s, and some of the axles that people use for the SAS?? Rear axle is no prob, he has a bunch of 9" in his yard, and that will be the only axle I would use this case. They can be narrowed, re-drilled for stock bolt pattern very easily. How hard is it to narrow a HP44?? He just got one in out of 79, and I can get stuff next to nothing from his yard. It pays to have a friend in the junk bussiness!! When I do this, it's not gonna be anything hardcore, I already have a truck for that, it's just too big to take on some trails. I want a "small" truck to take just about anywhere, but not have to worry about breaking stuff. It will only have 33s on it, and will definantly have a 350 in it, don't know bout the trans, maybe a 350/205 combo. Sorry for being long-winded.
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Old 05-20-2003, 08:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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P/U and cherokees have a D30 as well some may have a D44 on the newer cherokees I think the grands maybe.
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Old 05-20-2003, 09:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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On the rear its real straight forward, Spring over and set pinion angle. The Dshaft you can buy a u-joint kit for or have Jess build ya one probably will need to lengthen or shorten depending on the rear ya put in I can say I would set my front up how I want it first then do the rear to the same height, rear is easier to raise or lower, my rear is spring over with an AAL for example. much higher than mine is though and I would have u joint binding issues during full on axle droop. I still have the slip yoke in and it hasnt been an issue.


I know lots of people have done this with a 350 tranny and t case swap, obviously if your going at it from this perspective things change and you probably know enough to get through it. It really isnt that bad I did all mine (both times ) pretty much in my gravel driveway. I have been very happy with this truck, its a whole lot of fun and has been real inexpensive all things considered!! Ive ran a 85 toyota and had a 62 IH scout too and for some reason this lil blazer has really got me going.
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Old 05-20-2003, 03:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i got my SFA kit from fabritech. it graphs the 4 link/coil sprung frontend from a TJ/ cherokee onto the s10 frame. its got dual shocks but costs an ass load of $$$. it took them 3 or 4 months to get it to me too which was a pain in the ass and then stuff didnt line up right at first and they had to send me a different trac bar. they dont tell you on their site that you have to hook up a steering stabilizer or else youll get a death wobble. www.setstr8.com if youre interested
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Old 05-21-2003, 07:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I just got done with a SAS for a customer on a '94 XCab S-10. Took out the 4.3, 4L60,231pushbutton and installed a 350, 700R4, 231 manual shift. Used f/r dana 44's from an '86 Grand Wagoneer and they were 3/4" wider than the S-10 axles. Used new *stock* wrangler springs in the front, springover, spaced to waggy spring width. Hung shackles with bushings on the inside of the frame rails on the "bend". Finished product looks really nice on 32's, with springover in the rear. From here it would be really easy to use some 4" Wrangler springs and clear 35's (with trimming of course). Used stock Waggy pitman arm and removed the factory front crossmember and replaced with a 4" round tube crossmember in front of the steering box. With bumper on, only the tip of the leaf spring is visible from the front of the truck.

Good mod for any S-10, the OEM components are very small and prone to excessive wear with larger tires.
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueJeep
I just got done with a SAS for a customer on a '94 XCab S-10. Took out the 4.3, 4L60,231pushbutton and installed a 350, 700R4, 231 manual shift. Used f/r dana 44's from an '86 Grand Wagoneer and they were 3/4" wider than the S-10 axles. Used new *stock* wrangler springs in the front, springover, spaced to waggy spring width. Hung shackles with bushings on the inside of the frame rails on the "bend". Finished product looks really nice on 32's, with springover in the rear. From here it would be really easy to use some 4" Wrangler springs and clear 35's (with trimming of course). Used stock Waggy pitman arm and removed the factory front crossmember and replaced with a 4" round tube crossmember in front of the steering box. With bumper on, only the tip of the leaf spring is visible from the front of the truck.

Good mod for any S-10, the OEM components are very small and prone to excessive wear with larger tires.
sounds like a nice truck, you have any pics?
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Old 05-21-2003, 11:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'll e-mail some to you. Haven't taken any of it finished, it's getting the transmission kickdown adjusted now.
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Old 05-21-2003, 02:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Post those pics up when you get them please.
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Old 05-21-2003, 06:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I used full widths and it doesn't look as wide as you might think, it will vary depending on what wheels you use. It really isn't as difficult as it sounds, just make sure you do plenty of planning and pre fabbing and the actually swap will only take several days
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Old 05-21-2003, 10:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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yeah hes right it dont look too wide. sorry man, i got EB axles but not cuz they were narrow, i got em cuz they were cheap and already locked, geared with 31 spline dutchmans
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Old 05-22-2003, 05:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I used the eb d44 front and scout d44 rear on my conversion using coil springs and radius arms. I have duff 3.5 lift springs a 3 inch body lift and trimmed fenders with 35 BFG m/t's on 8 inch wheels and while turning and flexing it up the tire rub the inner fenders. I used chevy flat top knucles and did cross over steering using a 2wd fullsize chevy truck steering box mounted on the outside of the frame. My truck started out as a 2wd but it is basically the same as starting with a 4wd. It was cheaper to stat with a 2wd and change the trans and t-case rather than throw away the front axle. My tranny crossmember is 3" chanel with a piece of 6" pipe welded in for front d-shaft clearance. A 12" square piece of 1/4 inch plate was welded to the frame for the trans crossmember to bolt to and for a place to mount the radius arms to.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by overkill48
My truck started out as a 2wd but it is basically the same as starting with a 4wd. It was cheaper to stat with a 2wd and change the trans and t-case rather than throw away the front axle.

And when you go with a two wheel drive, the upper coil buckets are already in place.
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Old 05-23-2003, 06:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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All this width talk, I figured why not some comparison. I have a good pic of mine from the front with a fullwidth D44 and factory wheels with 3.5in of BS. I really like it for looks at this width, I have a few other pics of it from the front with big tires on it as well.....
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Old 05-24-2003, 07:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The coil buckets on a 2wd are in the wrong place to use on the factory spring location on the E.B. axle. The 2wd s-10 coil buckets are too close together. I had to torch most of the coil bulge on the frame off and weld in a big plate to cover the big whole in the frame and then I welded the E.B spring buckets to the outside if the newly plated frame.
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Old 02-17-2004, 06:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I know this might be an iddiot questions, but for us that really don't know. Could someone post about what sides the diff's are on for each of the axles.

Thanks Guys,
David
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Old 02-17-2004, 08:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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who cares about width
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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bansheeman1- got any more pics? That looks good!
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Early Bronco axles- D44 front 9" rear
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