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Old 02-21-2006, 09:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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camelback heads

I have a set of camelback heads that came off a late 60s 327. Can I run these on a early 70s 350 that I am building?
Thanks for any input.
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Old 02-21-2006, 10:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Might have problems with the valve seats because you're using unleaded gas though.
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Get some late model vortec 350 heads they flow better than those heads!
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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yeah they will work, but if they need to be rebuilt its just better the go with aftermarket heads or modified vortec, be cheaper and produce more power in the long run.
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You sure can. If they are in good shape, you should get between 20 and 30 thousand miles out of them before the valve seats die and you lose compression.
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You sure can. If they are in good shape, you should get between 20 and 30 thousand miles out of them before the valve seats die and you lose compression.
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Old 02-23-2006, 03:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The combustion chambers on those 492 casting heads (camelbacks) are most likely smaller than the ones you have now on the 350... so it's gonna raise the compression a bit. Most likely around 3/4 of a point or so. If you can deal with the higher compression, the heads will flow better than what you have now... combine that with a more aggressive camshaft and you can make a decent seat-of-the-pants difference in power from around 3500 - 6000RPMS. Simply swapping those heads alone onto a stock 350 isn't gonna do much for you.

Lastly, you might have to drill and tap some new holes in those old heads to get your accessories to bolt up.
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Old 02-23-2006, 06:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Simply swapping those heads alone onto a stock 350 isn't gonna do much for you.
what are you talking about???? swaping a set of huge heads onto the engine isnt gonna do much because its not matched with the cam. But if he swaps on a set of similar intake runner heads that flow better then yes he is gonna make more power and will be able to tell a difference.
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Weaselzz,

What am I talking about? A stock SBC with a factory pass-car cam is sucking wind at 5 grand. Sticking a set of heads that have bigger runners & valves aren't gonna do a damn thing unless you can utilize the extra flow. That would mean putting in a bigger camshaft and spinning the motor faster. You bolt a set of high flow heads on a car with a stock cam and what are you gonna get out of it? Not a whole lot. You might gain 3-5 hp from the smaller combustion chambers building compression... but you'll probably lose the same in low-end that's given up by running the larger valves and runners in the heads. So where exactly is this huge difference he's gonna feel without a cam swap coming from? Don't ask me... I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The 461, 462, 492, 186 castings will all flow just fine on a motor with up to about 220 degrees of duration. The vortecs that everyone raves about will only be slightly better than these heads. Vortecs are better than most of the later models heads, because the flow like these older heads along with a revised chamber configuration.
You will have to have hardened seats machined into these heads to handle the additional heat created from the use of unleaded fuels. These heads flow numbers very similar to the 87 thru 91 013 Alum. heads used on Corvette's and even the ZZ4.
Anyone who says these heads aren't as good today, just isn't old enough to understand them. They are a great value for a street motor, and you can still use the stock intake.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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hes not putting a set of 220 heads on this motor, but your are right if he did that it would fall on its face.

Using your logic he shouldnt put those heads on at all because it would be a waste of time. How is that helpful? There will be a power increase, the engine will be more efficient, and it is a great place to start any build-up of an engine. Maybe he is planning on swapping a bigger cam in, if he is then these will be better then the production heads that he has on there now.

It makes more sense to put the heads on there first and then swap in a cam matched to those heads then to do it the other way around.

plus 462 heads have a 156 intake port and the 882 or similar have a 151 intake port and they both have the same valve size. Difference is 462 have a 62cc combustion chamber while the 882 have a 76cc.

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Old 02-24-2006, 06:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I have a Isky supercam 201 that I am debating on putting in it has 256 stamped in it. Would this cam work good with these heads, or would I be better using the stock heads with it?
Thanks for everybodys input.
oh by the way this engine is going in my 69 fj55.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggraypig
I have a Isky supercam 201 that I am debating on putting in it has 256 stamped in it. Would this cam work good with these heads, or would I be better using the stock heads with it?
Thanks for everybodys input.
oh by the way this engine is going in my 69 fj55.
That cam would complement those heads just fine. It would be better if you had the 1.94 intake valve version, but the 2.02 would work too! These will work better than the stock heads.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by weaselzz
hes not putting a set of 220 heads on this motor, but your are right if he did that it would fall on its face.

Using your logic he shouldnt put those heads on at all because it would be a waste of time. How is that helpful? There will be a power increase, the engine will be more efficient, and it is a great place to start any build-up of an engine. Maybe he is planning on swapping a bigger cam in, if he is then these will be better then the production heads that he has on there now.

It makes more sense to put the heads on there first and then swap in a cam matched to those heads then to do it the other way around.

plus 462 heads have a 156 intake port and the 882 or similar have a 151 intake port and they both have the same valve size. Difference is 462 have a 62cc combustion chamber while the 882 have a 76cc.
The problem with the 882 head is that they're considered junk:

http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel%20i...LINDER%20HEADS

One also must consider other things than just intake runner volume. Please note the chart I've posted. It will show that the old camelback heads (#11)actually outflow the newer Corvette heads (#18) in most aspects. Will he gain from using these older heads? FAWK YEAH!
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The camelback or "double hump" heads that you are considering running will work just fine on a pretty much stock motor, as long as you don't mind adding a bit of fuel additive containing a lead replacement to the fuel when you fill up. Otherwise, as was already posted, you will have problems with the exhaust valve seats. The intake port volumes run around 155-165 CC, which is fine for a mild motor and will not hurt your low end grunt. Compression will run you around 9.3:1 with a .040 head gasket, stock deck height of 9.025", and flattop pistons. If these heads need redone though, replacing the exhaust valve seats with hardened seats, valve guides, any broken or worn valvetrain parts, plus a good valve job is gonna run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. Not a cost effective repair when a brand new pair of vortecs can be had for around $500 that will outperform those old heads. No wonder so many people opt for the Vortecs.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny2000
The camelback or "double hump" heads that you are considering running will work just fine on a pretty much stock motor, as long as you don't mind adding a bit of fuel additive containing a lead replacement to the fuel when you fill up. Otherwise, as was already posted, you will have problems with the exhaust valve seats. The intake port volumes run around 155-165 CC, which is fine for a mild motor and will not hurt your low end grunt. Compression will run you around 9.3:1 with a .040 head gasket, stock deck height of 9.025", and flattop pistons. If these heads need redone though, replacing the exhaust valve seats with hardened seats, valve guides, any broken or worn valvetrain parts, plus a good valve job is gonna run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. Not a cost effective repair when a brand new pair of vortecs can be had for around $500 that will outperform those old heads. No wonder so many people opt for the Vortecs.
You know your stuff here, but will the 10 HP gain be worth the added cost of the intake manifold too? The 30 HP claim is over a stock late model not the old camelhump. The Bowtie phase II heads I was running were about equal too the vortec. look at the chart. Your $400.00 rebuild will include screw in studs. Is this included in the vortec cost?
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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882 heads have the most confusing aura around them than any other Gm stock head I've ever heard of. lol

882's will flow pretty g'damn well with no work to them. They will flow in the neighborhood of a set of Vortecs and will cost you 1/2 the price. They are honestly the best "cheap" heads you are going to find. They work wonderfully on budget minded - mild performance applications. I have made a REAL 375hp/375tq at the crank of a stock engine with a set of 882's and a mild hydraulic cam.

They are definitely a light casting and have been know to have mild, and I repeat, mild issues with cracking... although Vortecs are just as bad.


Anyway.... go have some hardened valve seats installed in those heads for a few bucks, and slap them on.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Point taken.Your absolutely right there. One could kick this one around all day. The question becomes, when do you say enough is enough? It's up to the individual. I have seen people spend hundreds of dollars just to eek out that last few HP. If a person already had a set of the old heads laying around that were in usable shape, I would say yes, go ahead and slap them on. I was just stating that if a person were in the process of a rebuild and/or were going to change the intake anyway, then the Vortecs warrent a look. I had an old '74 chevy shortbed about 15 yrs ago that had a warmed over 350 with a set of 461 heads on it that I had just done all the work on that I described above in my post. I was very pleased with the performance. And, that 9.3:1 motor ran just fine all day on 87 octane with the bronze valve guides I had installed, which DO help a bit when it comes to detonation(I ran these heads with a 220 degree @.050 duration cam and never once had a knock or ping). If the guy has a set of double humps laying around that are in pretty good shape, they would be a definate upgrade IMO over a smog casting if he takes the steps necessary to avoid valve seat damage.
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Old 02-25-2006, 09:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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all this info is great for him. But i was just making a guess as to which stock heads he has so infact he may not have 882's. 882 are great until .400 lift where they fall on their face, flow numbers prove that. Vortecs out flow 462 no doubt and it is a close call between the $$ to rebuild them since they are atleast 30 years old and the cost of the new vortec heads and an intake for them. It really comes down to cash at hand and need for parts.

I just bought a set of 062 vortecs off ebay for $300 with a set of 1.5 roller rockers on them. I have to find a manifold now, but i think that in the long run the vortecs are going to offer the most power potential. To realize that potential I am going to have to have the guides machined down and the spring seats widened, but then I can run a much bigger cam that would not work very well with a set of 882's and could possibily be maxing out the 462's.

Bottem line, if you got em, run em. You will be happy you did.
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Old 02-25-2006, 08:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Valve Lift..... GM 882........GM Vortec......GM 462
....... Intake Exhaust Intake Exhaust Intake Exhaust
100.... 70...... 59...... 60...... 46...... 50...... 54
200.... 125.... 109.... 129.... 97...... 119..... 91
300.... 178.... 136.... 176.... 133.... 167.... 121
400.... 204.... 143.... 212.... 151.... 198.... 134
500.... 205.... 144.... 211.... 159.... 212.... 139
600.... 206.... 145.... 211.... 157.... 218.... 142



How do you see the 882's "falling on their face"? At least they gain a cfm of flow per .100 where as the Vortecs LOSE cfm from .400 and up. The Vortecs flow6 cfm more than the 882's at .500 lift (at or before where most normal engine setups stop). Thats a whopping potential 10hp difference! ... And considering people like you will give 882's away... they're great for cheap setups.

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Old 02-27-2006, 11:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Sweet cut and paste anybody could make that shit up! You need to have a link to the site to back it up!
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm happy with the Camel Hump heads I'm running
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Old 02-28-2006, 09:07 AM   #24 (permalink)
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ok mudslinger, first what setup are you running. second did you notice a difference when you put them on?


882


vortec



um that looks a a little different to me. The reason i said they fall on their face is that they offer no more power above .400 lift and that is where all the aftermarket cam start to make power, so if you have heads that can not utilize a cam with .440 lift then what good are they? you might want to recheck your source, this came strait from chevy hi performance website. They flow benched a bunch of heads.

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Old 02-28-2006, 11:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This chart I believe, so as I said earlier. The difference between the vortec, and the camelhump head is in the chamber configuration. The camelhump head flows almost the same proved in the chart I posted.

Also Weaselzz, you might note it wasn't mudslinger99 that made the claim the 882 head was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaselzz
ok mudslinger, first what setup are you running. second did you notice a difference when you put them on?


882


vortec



um that looks a a little different to me. The reason i said they fall on their face is that they offer no more power above .400 lift and that is where all the aftermarket cam start to make power, so if you have heads that can not utilize a cam with .440 lift then what good are they? you might want to recheck your source, this came strait from chevy hi performance website. They flow benched a bunch of heads.
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