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Old 10-02-2007, 08:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Any 4l60E service techs on here?

I've got a 1995 k1500 that I rebuilt the 4l60E. I put all new seals, sealing rings, clutches, steels, sonnex pinless accumulators, transgo updates to the valve body, a hardened transgo seperator plate and "the beast" sun shell in.

The shift quality with the pinless accumulators is remarkable. I've done quite a few of the 4l60e's and this is the first time I have run into this situation.

I don't have second gear. All the other gears work well, up shift, down shift, the converter locks up correctly, etc.

Taking off in first you run it up to atleast 20 mph and have to let off of the throttle....it then will drop in 3rd and continues on into 4th and then lockup as you progress on. (It acts as if 2nd does not exist....there is no delay between 1st and 3rd....suggesting it is not even trying for 2nd)

I have ran it up to a little over 4000 and it will not shift out of first till you let off of the throttle, then shifts immediately. Reverse works well and releases very nice. The shift between 3rd and 4th is excellent.

I am at a loss and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or thoughts.

What I have done since....

-I pulled the 1-2 accumulator and bushing and replaced it as it was a little sticky, but it had no change whatsoever.

-I put a scanner on it and can watch it as I manually pull it through the gears on the selector while sitting still.

-The scanner did not show any codes.

-I can try and shift it manually into 2nd and it ignores the command and stays in 1st or 3rd what ever I am in at that time. It should take off in 2nd.


Anyone got any ideas?



(brought up from below for those just reading the post)



UPDATE********

I ran the scanner and found the computer was commanding the transmission to shift to second, but the transmission refused to comply. That told me as mentioned above (Thanks sha_ba_do_bang!!) that it was internal to the transmission and was likely hard parts since all the sensors and solenoids spec'd out.


I pulled the 2nd gear servo and found pieces of the sealing ring laying down in the case..... (Scooby Snack for Aaron and Noodles!)

That's the first one I have had break on me during installation. I put it together, so I can't blame anyone but me....

Yes, I did put the check balls in where the pins were when installing the pinless accumulators. I appreciate someone thinking of this as well.

Valve body bolts are also in the correct spot, as well.

I put new rings on the second gear servo and cleaned out the pieces out of the housing.....lubed it up with transgel (like ky only for transmissions) and slid it right back in.


Bottom line...It works great now. Second gear is back and functioning properly.


I did a road test with it tonight and was pleased with how well it worked.

Thanks for all the help on this one.......

Pirate board Rocks!!
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Last edited by Jy Dog; 10-02-2007 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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are you watching on the scanner as you drive if it is commanding 2nd? do that first do determine if the problem is internal or external then get back to me

Brendan
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1st gear has the "forward" clutch engage along with all other forward gears,
2nd gear is acheived by the 2-4 band engaging with the forward. 3rd gear is is acheived by the 2-4 band releasing and the 3-4 clutch engaging. 4th gear is acheived by the 3-4 clutch staying applied (along with the forward as mentioned) and a separate part of the 2-4 servo appling the 2-4 band to acheive 4th. Okay, now that we have a knowledge of what clutch does what. I would recommend that you remove the 2-4 band servo and inspect it for a rolled/cut/missing servo seal. Accumulators will affect shift quality but usually need to be seriously fucked up to cause a gear to be missing. My guess is that it is being commanded into 2nd, but due to a large pressure leak in the servo there is not enough apply pressure to move the servo pin to apply the 2-4 band onto the Rev. drum. Bottom line: you do not have to remove the trans to remove and inspect the servo so it's an easy check and most likely will yield your problem.
Aaron.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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although rare I have seen the pinless accumulators flip in the bore may want to check there. you also may want to check the servo seals...the band is obviously working because you have 4th did you install the check ball in the housing of the 1-2 accum where the pin normally would be at?
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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pull the servo and check the rings.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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also i have seen unproperly torque'd valve bodies do funny things. and putting the wrong length bolts do the same.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOODLES View Post
also i have seen unproperly torque'd valve bodies do funny things. and putting the wrong length bolts do the same.
usually the wrong length bolts wipe out the sunshell he has 4th and reverse so the sunshell seems to be working
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by performabuilt2 View Post
although rare I have seen the pinless accumulators flip in the bore may want to check there. you also may want to check the servo seals...the band is obviously working because you have 4th did you install the check ball in the housing of the 1-2 accum where the pin normally would be at?
As I stated, there are two section of the servo, a two in one if you will, one that is closest to the outside cover does 4th band apply the one that is behind that one (closest to the trans interal) is the servo that applies 2nd. Same thing has happen to me in my rookie days and I rolled the inside servo cut seal.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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UPDATE********

I ran the scanner and found the computer was commanding the transmission to shift to second, but the transmission refused to comply. That told me as mentioned above (Thanks sha_ba_do_bang!!) that it was internal to the transmission and was likely hard parts since all the sensors and solenoids spec'd out.


I pulled the 2nd gear servo and found pieces of the sealing ring laying down in the case..... (Scooby Snack for Aaron and Noodles!)

That's the first one I have had break on me during installation. I put it together, so I can't blame anyone but me....

Yes, I did put the check balls in where the pins were when installing the pinless accumulators. I appreciate someone thinking of this as well.

Valve body bolts are also in the correct spot, as well.

I put new rings on the second gear servo and cleaned out the pieces out of the housing.....lubed it up with transgel (like ky only for transmissions) and slid it right back in.


Bottom line...It works great now. Second gear is back and functioning properly.


I did a road test with it tonight and was pleased with how well it worked.

Thanks for all the help on this one.......

Pirate board Rocks!!
__________________
1987 Samurai 5.0/ 14 bolt/ hp60 welded with 38.5 sx's on h1's C6/1356/np205 108" wb

Last edited by Jy Dog; 10-02-2007 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I had something similar happen to ma one time with the 4th servo i used a old cover and a old seal from another 4th piston and it didnt seal to well and i had no 4th lol and took me a while to figure it out becuase there was no other reason not to have 4th i guess the difference in the diameters of the 2 covers and the seal being formed to the cover it was in just gave it to much clearnce popped a new seal in it and had 4th lol
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