swapping tranny in 85 k5, from 700r4 to th350... how hard?? what modifications? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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swapping tranny in 85 k5, from 700r4 to th350... how hard?? what modifications?

im swapping the 700r4 out of my 85 k5 blazer, and replacing it with either a th350 or th400. what am i looking at as far as parts that will need replaced, custom made, swapped out... ect. will i have to lengthen/shorten driveshafts? will the tranny/xfer case mounts work? any tips or hints?
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Usually see people go the other way for over drive. Exhaust maybe and I think there are two different t-case bolt patterns.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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here's a tip. search.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnchevyman View Post
im swapping the 700r4 out of my 85 k5 blazer, and replacing it with either a th350 or th400. what am i looking at as far as parts that will need replaced, custom made, swapped out... ect. will i have to lengthen/shorten driveshafts? will the tranny/xfer case mounts work? any tips or hints?
well, if you want to use the original transfer case, you will have fun.

this will require a different transfer case adapter and output shaft. not impossible to find, but a challenge. its a tall 4 inch thick or so adapter and will allow the 208/241 case to bolt up.

or....

you can go with an Np205. this means you need a th350/np205 combo with adapter, and its reasonably safe to assume that these are out there, since they were made from 1968-80 for probably half of the chevy/GMC 4x4 automatic half tons. Thats a lot of trucks.

you will have to have driveshaft modifications made for either of these setups.

there is, of course, another way. theres a spacer kit, a 2 inch thick spacer that replaces the extra 2inches on the 700r4, comes with an output shaft, needs to be installed into your trans. this doesnt require the use of new driveshafts, or transfer cases.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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ya know odin, i bet every single question that will ever be asked has been asked already. well, at least 90% of them. so why dont we just shut down all the boards, and just leave the search funtions. instead of digging up an old post, why not just start a new one. is it that much of an inconveniance to your life to have to see a new topic title that youve seen before? you didnt even have to read or reply to the damm thing. if it bothers you soooooo damm much that this question has been asked before, the skip the topic dude. jeez...

grumpy, thanks for the info. do ya happen to know off hand who makes the 2" spacer kit?
also, how big of a pita will the trans shifter linkage be? possibility i can use the stock one?

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Old 01-09-2008, 09:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...roduct_Count=0

That's the adapter you need.

Methinks you're on grumpy's good side now since you're one of the only ones on here that is asking how to ditch the 700r4...
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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thanks much mondtster. this will probably be the way i go. it should hold up fine beings as the mud is mostly tire spinning and not much hard grabbing traction.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mondtster View Post
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...roduct_Count=0

That's the adapter you need.

Methinks you're on grumpy's good side now since you're one of the only ones on here that is asking how to ditch the 700r4...
lol, I think you might be on to something... hmmm someone with a brain.

thanks for the parts reference. I didnt have it.

the trans shifter linkage will probably bolt right back up to the stock transfer case in the stock location.
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I am using a stock front shaft off of a 700r4/241 on my 400/241 combo. I can't tell you about the rear shaft because I run a SYE with a HAD 1350 CV shaft in the rear. As far as the swap goes, it is pretty easy to do. I am not running a kick down though.
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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in 81 there was the 350 lockup with the 208, used the same adaptor as the 700 with a longer 350 output shaft. all trans parts, portland,or. may have the shaft, some have used a short shaft and cut it down to the correct length. theres no drive shaft changing needed. in the late 80's it was a common swap, so many hate the 700, to bad they didn't just drill the presure relief for the pump seal and regear then there would be no problem. it is a huge advantage to have a 3.06 first and a .7 overdrive when properly geared. aside from the OD in stock form it is every bit as strong as the 350.
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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in 81 there was the 350 lockup with the 208, used the same adaptor as the 700 with a longer 350 output shaft. all trans parts, portland,or. may have the shaft, some have used a short shaft and cut it down to the correct length. theres no drive shaft changing needed. in the late 80's it was a common swap, so many hate the 700, to bad they didn't just drill the presure relief for the pump seal and regear then there would be no problem. it is a huge advantage to have a 3.06 first and a .7 overdrive when properly geared. aside from the OD in stock form it is every bit as strong as the 350.
I think the idea was to get away from this piece of shit transmission? Sure, you can throw money at the 700r4 till it sticks. but for 1/3 of the price, you can get rid of the problem altogether.

etc. etc. etc.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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ok, properly geared, and a person smart enough to stay out of OD while towing the 700r4 is the same tranny as a 350, considering the gearing of the 700 it is a better tranny than any 350.
the problem is not the tranny, it is the user of the tranny, tall tires and high gears not only kill a 700 they kill a 350,400 4l80, you name it they kill it, the increased load and contant stall riding create heat which in turn kills the tranny. of course some know this, still they blame the tranny for their ignorance.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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ok, properly geared, and a person smart enough to stay out of OD while towing the 700r4 is the same tranny as a 350, considering the gearing of the 700 it is a better tranny than any 350.
the problem is not the tranny, it is the user of the tranny, tall tires and high gears not only kill a 700 they kill a 350,400 4l80, you name it they kill it, the increased load and contant stall riding create heat which in turn kills the tranny. of course some know this, still they blame the tranny for their ignorance.
still not the question.

This debate has been raised time and again. please do a search on it. The gentleman asked what ways were possible, not if he should or should not do the swap.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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grumpys got things right... re-using the 700r4 just isnt practical for the horsepower this motor is making. especially after the nitrous is installed. i dont give a rats hairy ass about overdrive. because im not using this truck for cross country trips. its a wheeling vehicle, not my daily driver.
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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considering the gearing of the 700 it is a better tranny than any 350.
a lower first gear. Go with the adapter plate and 350 turbo man. thats what id do.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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grumpys got things right... re-using the 700r4 just isnt practical for the horsepower this motor is making. especially after the nitrous is installed. i dont give a rats hairy ass about overdrive. because im not using this truck for cross country trips. its a wheeling vehicle, not my daily driver.


Dunno what you're running for a motor, but if you're talking nitrous on a mud truck, I'm guessing it's cranking pretty good. I'd forget the TH350 and go for a 400. Yeah, they eat a little more power, but they are a much stronger transmission. The TH350 really isn't much stronger than the 700R4.

Before this starts the debate, it has been discussed before. Here's one thread:
/forum/chevy/622861-trans-choices-th350-400-700r4.html
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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ya know odin, i bet every single question that will ever be asked has been asked already. well, at least 90% of them. so why dont we just shut down all the boards, and just leave the search funtions. instead of digging up an old post, why not just start a new one. is it that much of an inconveniance to your life to have to see a new topic title that youve seen before? you didnt even have to read or reply to the damm thing. if it bothers you soooooo damm much that this question has been asked before, the skip the topic dude. jeez...

grumpy, thanks for the info. do ya happen to know off hand who makes the 2" spacer kit?
also, how big of a pita will the trans shifter linkage be? possibility i can use the stock one?
You are close. Most things have been covered. So if you would search before you asked you might find your answer. Everytime you start a new thread on "what do I need to swap a tranny out" or "what size lift should I run" you take up the valuble bandwidth here on the pbb. And those of us who actually search for answers first have to sift through 1000 bullshit threads because of lazy people who are too ignorant to try and answer the question themselves.
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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also, how big of tires can i run on a stock 3/4ton suspension? it has 295/??/15;s on it now and appears to be plenty of room. how much lift required to run 38's? thanks guys
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like the title says, ever bob your rig? im thinking about doing it to my 82, just wondering what all i have to go through.
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Ok, i am located in Las Vegas, Nevada. im trying to decide which tires to get, figured the hardcore jeep guys would know the best. they arent going on a jeep though, sorry guys, going on a 3/4 ton 82 dodge with a 440 big block, 3 spd tranny w/granny low, np 208 xfer case with 2.61 low range, 4.11 gears in dana 60's front and rear with detroits rear and posi front. rims are 16.5x 8.25 hummer military beadlocks (which will be widened as necessary to fit tires),now that you know the vehicle, the tires im looking at...

Mickey Thompson baja bias claw- 37x13.5x16.5
Swamper IROK bias ply-36x13.5x16.5 or 37x14x16.5
Swamper TRXUS STS radials- 36x14.5rx16.5 or 38x15.5rx16.5
Swamper THORNBIRD- 35x14.5x16.5 or 35x12.5x16.5 or 38x14.5x16

I'm leaning towards the thornbirds or the TRXUS STS. but im open to experianced information, suggestions, and what you have found about these tires.

also, will 35's be big enough or should i go more towards the 36-38" sizes? thanks a lot guys, i appreciate the input.
I rest my case

From browsing your previous posts 90% of your posts belong in the newb forum. And you need to learn to search.

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Old 01-10-2008, 09:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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the low 3.06 and the .7 OD plays a large advantage for wheeling hwy cruising and crawling, consider how low you can get in the differentials and still haul down the hwy at 25 or 2800 rpm like the desired ratio using a 350- 2.52 1st, 400 and the 4l80-2.48, the advantage is healthy, even the reverse gear- 2.29 vs a 2.07 of the 350/400. then there's the standard 465 reverse for comparison.....6.09 what good is that in the muck? awesome crawler though.

with 5:38 gears in OD the crawl ratio is 3.77, gees....you could get into the 6's for the axles and still haul down the hwy and think about what that'll do for the off road ability and crawl ratio. It is 62.56 using a 3.8 in the t-case, and 5:38 gears.........using a 5.1 t-case it's 83.96.

all this means is at 70MPH with dinky 35" tires, 5:38 gears, in OD the rpms will be 2,530 RPM's, in that rpm range the overdrive is not going to be stressed and/or creating the disastrous heat from riding the stall regardless of horsepower. O' I know it was distputed, elswhere mostly by opinion, He say's/she say's, I did that he did this blablabla type of crap.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I rest my case

From browsing your previous posts 90% of your posts belong in the newb forum. And you need to learn to search.
yea, but youre still a dousche. i asked those questions out of sheer boredome. who cares. valuable bandwith my arse buddy. your a jackass.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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the low 3.06 and the .7 OD plays a large advantage for wheeling hwy cruising and crawling, consider how low you can get in the differentials and still haul down the hwy at 25 or 2800 rpm like the desired ratio using a 350- 2.52 1st, 400 and the 4l80-2.48, the advantage is healthy, even the reverse gear- 2.29 vs a 2.07 of the 350/400. then there's the standard 465 reverse for comparison.....6.09 what good is that in the muck? awesome crawler though.

with 5:38 gears in OD the crawl ratio is 3.77, gees....you could get into the 6's for the axles and still haul down the hwy and think about what that'll do for the off road ability and crawl ratio. It is 62.56 using a 3.8 in the t-case, and 5:38 gears.........using a 5.1 t-case it's 83.96.

all this means is at 70MPH with dinky 35" tires, 5:38 gears, in OD the rpms will be 2,530 RPM's, in that rpm range the overdrive is not going to be stressed and/or creating the disastrous heat from riding the stall regardless of horsepower. O' I know it was distputed, elswhere mostly by opinion, He say's/she say's, I did that he did this blablabla type of crap.

did you have a point here?

I know, youre trying to say that the 700 will live.

thats a nice sentiment.

the original poster has stated that he doesnt want one. seems pretty set in stone about it.

if you want one, buy one. with the money you spend on ONE, the original poster could have bought two th350s.

I dont see the advantage to having a 700r4. sure its got a low gear. that low gear is only seen at super super low speed. if you get lower axle gears, you wont EVER feel it. Itll be in 2nd before you can figure out what happened. as for OD... well, you can go on believing that the OD is a good thing. I dont have a problem with that. Where you live in/around PDX, the flat ground almost requires an overdrive, because people drive like asses at 80 mph on the freeway. you NEED an overdrive there. out here in podunk, you dont even want one... we dont go that fast. plus, we have things called hills. People use their trucks... like for work. you know, hauling weight... like a couple cords of wood... a trailer thats 4-10k lbs overweight.... something a 700 wont take.

I know you have mentioned that the 700 will last if you treat it right. I dont agree, as this same trans is having problems in a 3300 lb camaro/firebird behind a 2.8 or a 3.4. or in 4000 lb s10s behind a 4.3 or a 2.8...

if they cant hold up to a weenie v6, what the hell kinda sense does make putting it in front of a decent motor?

if you want one, you buy it.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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grumpy, i lol'd at your reply. people are just stuck on the overdrive that i will NEVER USE OFF ROAD. and the low first gear that I WILL NEVER USE IN THE MUD, muds all about wheel speed kids. ill be in 3rd gear speedo reading 85 while im traveling 25 through some swamp. i see the posotives of the 700 if it would actually hold up. but i have no use for those posotives. and the low first gear, i have around 500 ft lbs of torque, i could start off in 2nd if i wanted.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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grumpy, i lol'd at your reply. people are just stuck on the overdrive that i will NEVER USE OFF ROAD. and the low first gear that I WILL NEVER USE IN THE MUD, muds all about wheel speed kids. ill be in 3rd gear speedo reading 85 while im traveling 25 through some swamp. i see the posotives of the 700 if it would actually hold up. but i have no use for those posotives. and the low first gear, i have around 500 ft lbs of torque, i could start off in 2nd if i wanted.
dnchevyman,

I wasnt meaning to hijack your thread. this gentleman lives a bit north of me, and seems to be trying to polish a turd with some really good carnauba wax. the 700 was not designed to be placed in a truck. it was designed to be used as a mileage aid in midsized passenger cars, by the original designer, HydraMatic Corp., which is owned by General Motors.... General Motors, as the end user, can put whatever it wants where ever it wants... same way a 69 impala ended up with a power glide. Same way a Monza ended up with a 305 in it.

the EPA has been requiring the manufacturers to step up and comply with emissions, and to do so, the manufacturers have used the tools available to them that will allow mileage figures to climb. They are not worried about durability. they are worried about return customers, preferably ones that are just about ready for a new car... at just about the same time the old car is paid off.

this post could go on forever about the failures of EVERY manufacturer in their products designs or obvious flaws. Im willing to bet that you dont run 22 lbs of air in the tires on your explorer.... because FORD says thats the pressure, but the tires are made by someone else....

end users beware.

build it to run, or itll break like the piece of shit it was designed to be from the factory.


(on the same note... how many jeeps do you see on here with factory axles under them?)
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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no worries grumpy, i actually like reading your responses, theres actual brains behind the reply.

factory axles under a jeep? LETS DO A SEARCH SO WE DONT WASTE BANDWIDTH!!! LOL
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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sorry to jump in on an off topic of the thread but i just have to back up the 700 real quick. grumpy i am not trying to get on your nerves and i know that you know a lot and that you can build almost anything to be strong. i have read a lot of posts that you have put up and you are very knowledgable. i have a 700 and i have about $650 into it and i have some friends with the same setup and are running 800hp high 9 to low 10 sec camaros and trans ams. and they run it season after season. all i am saying is it can be a strong trans. and i still drive my truck to the trail so its nice having od for me but its all up to personal preference. dnchevyman if your not driving to the trail and trailering it then i would say to go with a 400 but it would be less work i think to do a 350
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