What have you done to cool your 700-R4 without integral radiator cooler? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Chevy
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2001, 05:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5801
Location: Denair, CA
Posts: 400
Post What have you done to cool your 700-R4 without integral radiator cooler?

I am swapping in a 700-R4 into my vehicle. I am considering adding a B&M 28,000lb. GVW cooler with electronic fan. I don't have a cooler integrated in the bottom of my radiator.

Can anyone give me an idea on what you have done to keep your tranny cool? How well do you think it works?
__________________
Life is so much better now!
orbitcat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2001, 08:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,105
Post

you should be able to get away with that setup no problem. would be a good idea to mount the cooler in front of the rad or somewhere to get good airflow.
also make sure to get a wiring harness for the torque converter lockup. painless sells a decent setup for about $120 (summit) which supplies you with everything you need.
make sure the tv cable is installed and adjusted properly as well or you'll smoke that trans in a hurry.
last but not least; get a 88-93 trans with the auxillary valve body. also known as the 4L60 with the 30 spline input. the earlier versions are nothing to write home about and originally gave the 700 a bad rep.
good luck!
e-mail me if you have any questions or need any parts. i even have a brand new AA adapter still in the box for sale.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 10-08-2001, 10:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6287
Location: ft worth texas
Posts: 18
Post

you can also get a high capacity pan for it from summit or jegs that adds like 1-2 quarts of fluid <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
__________________
have you taco'd a ten bolt lately?
83 chevy beast 37"boggers
lock rights
powered by white trash
usmc will blow their shit up
jakeoffroad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2001, 05:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3694
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Posts: 2,016
Post

Deep Tranny pans are the way to go "Aluminum only"!!!. Trans. coolers are nice too "PUT IN FRONT OF RADIATOR"!! Last but not least you can put a trans. temp. gauge on it to keep an eye in case of "warming it up". You can also make your own "lock up" harness it's pretty simple to do. I learned this from a "Tranny guy".....
__________________
Need Steering? www.shakerbuilt.com
Too Many Projects not enough Time...
Shaker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2001, 12:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6812
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 6
Send a message via AIM to Dieselboy
Thumbs up

Orbit,

The process of making a regular TH700R4 survive behing any motor is governed by ATF temperature, fluid capacity, ATF quality, and a knowledge of the normal operating temperatures and their limits.
First off, the integral cooler in the radiator isn't doing any good to guys who live in southern states where the ATF is warm enough already. It actually serves as a warmer in many cases. I bypassed the integral ATF cooler and routed it to the B&M 24,000 GVW cooler mouted forward of all the radiators. The 28,000 GVW unit is bored larger and is intended for very high performance applications where the transmission line pressure is at such high levels that it can efficiently pass ATF through the cooler. Ideal tranny temp is anywhere from 160F to 200F, however 220F is still plenty safe. The GM shop manual says that 150F-250F is the designed operating range for their automatics. Beyond 250F, seals start to embrittle and harden. Things obviously just get worse form there. B&M suggests using their temp sending unit in the upper oil return line (TH700R4). From that, I see temps as high as 210F on a hot Texas uphill climb, but sit at 160F or so for most running around. All this is based on petroleum ATF. As a side note, when behind the Duramax diesel, the new Allison 5-speed automatic sits steadily at 190F no matter what the conditions.
By increasing the amount of ATF in the system, it takes longer for the transmission to heat the fluid and results in a decrease in operating temperatures. In conjunction with a higher capacity pan, I've found that the 24,000 GVW unit provides plenty of cooling capacity for my suburban. Finned aluminium pans seem to have the best cooling ability.
The quality of your transmission fluid is dependant on the manufacturer. In other words, full synthetic is better than the autozone brand. Assuming that all the necessary cooling modifications are made, invest in high quality ATF. With 30,000 mile drain intervals being the norm, Amsoil synthetic or top of the line Valvoline is cheap insurance. In addition, an auxiliary spin on type filter is a worthwhile investment. This allows for a more efficient and convenient method of filtration. It enables you to keep ATF as clean as possible, and therefore helps retain it's hydraulic properties the life of the fluid not to mention increasing the overall life of your transmission.
All of the above modifications are great, but don't do much good without a temperature gauge. Several people make them, so it isn't a big deal figuring out which one is right for you. Whether to mount the sender unit on the output on return line is the big issue. I suggest having two sender units, one on each of the lines. With a simple switch, you can see not only what the in and out temperatures are, but get an idea of how effectice your cooler is.

I hope this helps,

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Diesel ]
__________________
David
'85 'burban
B&B 6.2L J NA
T-700
5.5" lift 35"BFGs
*Banks turbo coming soon*
Dieselboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2001, 09:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,105
Post

one thing to keep in mind is not to mix fluids unless you absolutely have too. depending on what fluid you choose, you should carry some spare just in case you develop a leak out on the trail.
i think that plain-jane ATF works just fine. when's the last time you or anybody else heard of an auto failing due to fluid failure?! i've never heard of it!
another point i'd like to mention is that the more gadgets you add, the more stuff can and will go wrong. i'm not putting down anybody's opinion here, but i try to keep things as simple as possible. less possibility for trouble that way.
an auto will blow fluid out of the breather if it gets too hot, given it's filled to the proper level. besides, what are you going to do if it does get hot?!
if you're going rock crawling or subject your trans to any other strenuous conditions you should change the fluid more often than in a grocery getter. and this is why you do want the fluid and trans to stay cool; heat kills! ATF will deteriorate under too much heat and loose some of it's viscosity and positive effects, but it won't fail.
if you do run a deep aluminum pan, protect it well from the rocks! remember, aluminum will crack under enough pressure and good luck gluing that baby back together on the trail. a stamped steel pan will dent, but not crack.
i think if you run a good size twisted tube cooler, you'll be just fine. 26,000lbs unit should do the trick. don't run a tube and fin cooler, they're not nearly as efficient.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2001, 11:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5801
Location: Denair, CA
Posts: 400
Post

Thanks, everybody, for your input! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I think I'm going to go with the B&M 28000 lb cooler. Maybe I'll forego the cooling fan and put the cooler in fron of the radiator. I was planning on putting the cooler in the engine compartment with a thermostatically controlled fan, but maybe I'll put it in front of the radiator and if the engine gets hot because of it, I'll add a Griffon radiator or equivilent.

I think I'm going to try the new Synthetic Trick Shift fluid. I've always heard good things about the trick shift. Since I run Mobil 1 in the engine, I might as well.

I was planning on getting the Autometer temp gauge to keep track of the temp. I was planning on putting the sender on the output line of the tranny since this would be the hottest. I am wondering if the cooler will drop the temperature too much and it might be too cool when it gets back to the tranny. Is this possible? I always hear that it should be kept around 170 F, but I don't know if this is supply or return.

Also, the doner vehicle was a 90 or 91 Chevy 4x4, so I think it's the 4L60.
__________________
Life is so much better now!
orbitcat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2001, 08:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,105
Post

being "too cool" will not be a problem. it won't happen, and if it does it won't affect the trans any. the only affect low fluid temp has on some of the fully computer controlled transmissions is that the converter won't go into lock-up mode until the proper minimum fluid temp is achieved.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2001, 12:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6812
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 6
Send a message via AIM to Dieselboy
Thumbs up

I agree with you about the fact that it isn't too often that one finds themselves with a cooler that is "too efficient," but it is possible and detrimental to have ATF operating temperatures below 100F. This is especially true for people in colder climates. When ATF is cold, condensation occurs. If your transmission is not operating at or above 100F in order to burn out the condensation, then the water combines with the ATF and acids form. This in turn wears on seals and internal leaks can occur. It will take much longer to kill a transmission from too cool a fluid than overheating it would, but in the longer run it will to damage to the transmission. Once again, the prime thermal range for petroleum ATF is 160F-200F, but a more realistic figure would be 175F-225F. Here in Texas, we don't have to worry too much about fluid warming up.

Hope this helps,

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Diesel ]
__________________
David
'85 'burban
B&B 6.2L J NA
T-700
5.5" lift 35"BFGs
*Banks turbo coming soon*
Dieselboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2001, 09:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,105
Post

hey diesel! thanks for the kick-ass info. learn something new every day!
georg
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2001, 11:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5801
Location: Denair, CA
Posts: 400
Post

Yes, thank you, everyone, for the info. I live in central CA, so I don't think it will get too cold.

I received my parts from Summit racing today. The Auto Meter trans temp gauge says to mount the sender in the tranny oil pan. Is this a good place? I don't want to get any false readings!
__________________
Life is so much better now!
orbitcat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2001, 09:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,105
Post

if you mount the temp sending unit in the oil pan, i would have the fitting brazed in since they are prone to leaking. personally, i'd go for the line from the trans to the radiator.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-21-2001, 09:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Member # 7693
Location: wyoming
Posts: 26
Send a message via AIM to flexychevy1
Post

I used an air conditioner condensor radiator.I have it mounted on the cage I built in the rear of my truck.I have a temp gauge for the trans,whene it get warm I kick on the fan untill it cools off.
__________________
1980chevy 3/4Dana 44 front 14 rear,custom long travel shock mounts,reverse rear shackels,4.5" of lift,406sb,th350,np203np205 doubler,sub tank in bed.8274warn,locked front and rear,38x15.50x15 swamper tsl
flexychevy1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-21-2001, 09:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5801
Location: Denair, CA
Posts: 400
Post

I know you gave me your opinion, but I have what appears to be a stock GM temp sender threaded into the 4th (I think) oil pressure check port. There is 4 pressure check ports that ahave a 1/4" NPT thread. I think it should work O.K. Any reason I shouldn't go with this port? If I don't and go with the hot oil return line to the cooler, what is the direction of flow? From top port to bottom or visa versa? Thanks!
__________________
Life is so much better now!
orbitcat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-22-2001, 09:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
brector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 192
Location: Knoxvegas, TN
Posts: 1,165
Send a message via AIM to brector Send a message via Yahoo to brector
Question

What is your all's opinion on mounting the tranny cooler in front of the radiator?

I've been told by numerous people to NOT mount it in front of the radiator. It blocks the air flow to the radiator. I've been told just to mount the tranny cooler out of harms way in the engine compartment with a good electric fan. Thought, comments???
__________________
-Brian

1 ton yoda

I make nerd sexy
brector is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-22-2001, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6812
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 6
Send a message via AIM to Dieselboy
Thumbs up

With regard to the T-700, the upper line is the return and the lower is the output. I recommend installing the temp probe in the lower (hot) line. It more accuratly reflects the operating temperatures inside the transmission.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Diesel ]
__________________
David
'85 'burban
B&B 6.2L J NA
T-700
5.5" lift 35"BFGs
*Banks turbo coming soon*
Dieselboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-22-2001, 06:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5801
Location: Denair, CA
Posts: 400
Post

brector -

This is what I was going to do as my first thought. I was going to mount the cooler in the engine compartment and put a thermostatically controlled cooling fan on it to keep it right around 175-185 degrees.

It seemed that the concensus was to put the tranny cooler up front and get the airflow from the stock clutch fan. I can still go either way, but that sounded reasonable.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: orbitcat ]
__________________
Life is so much better now!
orbitcat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.