TBI question - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Chevy
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2009, 10:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
TBI question

IM getting a 92 chevy 3/4ton with a 454 and 5 speed! Im just curious if I was to put the throttle body injection off of it on my 396 if it would support the 380-400 horse power that the 396 makes? and is it worth the swap to put this in a older non fuel injected truck?
and yes I searched just didnt find any definite yes or no
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 07:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
Rock God
 
brokenparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member # 71152
Location: Hillsboro,OR
Posts: 1,717
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to brokenparts Send a message via MSN to brokenparts Send a message via Yahoo to brokenparts
the 454 throttle body should be able to handle it... you will more than likely need to increase the fuel pressure however.
__________________
I am offended by reality all the time.

My 1 ton fj60 build:

/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/708363-fj60-build.html
brokenparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-21-2009, 07:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13786
Location: moved 7 miles to colfax, ca.
Posts: 4,330
It's worth the swap, I converted my 1968 to TBI
KWTMECH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 08:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Urban Wheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26369
Location: Luyben's Shop Of Horrors
Posts: 4,617
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Urban Wheeler
It's always worth ditchin a carb.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proeliator View Post
Also, instead of mounting the nitrous bottle between the seats, I'd install a cheese toaster.
Urban Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
hey kwtmech got any suggestions or pointers on doing this swap any pictures? and thats all i have been able to get so far is it should or I dont think so I want someone to chime in and say they have done it and their motor is similar hp. thats what Im hoping for anyway
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 02:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
larboc@hotmail.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member # 70148
Location: Neodesha, KS, but now in da U.P. of MI eh?
Posts: 2,529
1) Go here and read the faqs. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/f...splay.php?f=75
2) Install TBI
3) Build a cable for your laptop to data log, and buy the moates chip burner and some eeproms. modify the chips like you find on the BP so you don't have to spend a dime on adapters.

4) Learn how much nicer fuel injection is to drive than a carb.
__________________
I don't pay nothing for anything.
[url]http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598612[/url]

Last edited by larboc@hotmail.com; 10-21-2009 at 02:33 PM.
larboc@hotmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 08:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
Rock God
 
brokenparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member # 71152
Location: Hillsboro,OR
Posts: 1,717
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to brokenparts Send a message via MSN to brokenparts Send a message via Yahoo to brokenparts
there's no quick explanation... There is a ton of info on the web and in books available. JTR (jags that run) has a pretty good book help you start to get your brain wrapped around the process. http://www.jagsthatrun.com/OrderingBooks.html .

Third gen (kinda like a pirate forum) is also an excellent resource for info:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/
__________________
I am offended by reality all the time.

My 1 ton fj60 build:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708363
brokenparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 09:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
MTblazer87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 122805
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 356
I did some research on www.tbichips.com, and ended up using one of his chips for my build. I also looked at these guys for a better flowing tbi http://marine-performance-parts.com/...rgmtbi74l.aspx

In retrospect I would probably try to burn my own chip if I was to do it again so I could get the tune perfected for my motor.
__________________
Wheeler: 87 K5, 454TBI, 465, 208, d60, 14bff, a few cuts on the body, rolling on 39.5's
Towrig/DD: 05 Dodge 2500 Cummins, with a few mods

/forum/chevy/769919-foolsized-blazer-build.html
MTblazer87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 02:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
larboc@hotmail.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member # 70148
Location: Neodesha, KS, but now in da U.P. of MI eh?
Posts: 2,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTblazer87 View Post
I did some research on www.tbichips.com, and ended up using one of his chips for my build. I also looked at these guys for a better flowing tbi http://marine-performance-parts.com/...rgmtbi74l.aspx

In retrospect I would probably try to burn my own chip if I was to do it again so I could get the tune perfected for my motor.
yes, there are tons of people that try to order a chip for their non-stock motor and never have it work right. Too many variables with a speed density setup to burn a chip without datalogging.
__________________
I don't pay nothing for anything.
[url]http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598612[/url]
larboc@hotmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 02:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
thats great information guys I think i have my spare time all taken up reading up on this stuff now thanks alot I appreciate it
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 07:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130361
Location: South bend, In
Posts: 62
YES.
I have a carb to tbi swapped 468 in my buggy, not much to it really. You said you were just under 400hp, you will need for sure a bigger tbi unit and more fuel(pressure). Extreme efi, in texas and on ebay, does it pretty cheap. I would get the 850 cfm, that should support upwards of 500hp if you ever want a little more. From my own experience I would stay on the smaller side of the cams out there for BBCs. Don't bother buying the edelbrock intake, it's really only good for the stock head tbi motors, they have peanut ports. One more thing, 454s did not come factory with knock sensors until multi port. So if you run anything but a stock spec tbi 454, I would reccomend an isntall of a knock sensor. Actually pretty easy, just have to run one wire from ecm to esc(electronic spark control) module, the rest of the wires go from esc to negative ,switched hot, and knock sensor(I used newer delphi style), pretty easy.

Fuel pressure, well if you can use an external pump, I would. Last longer and generally have higher than stock pressure. Also either homebrew adj regulator or aftermarket, you'll need 18-20lbs maybe. This is all assuming your making that much HP. In stock trim a TBI set-up will work on your motor without mods but, it will piss you of more than it will make you happy. Is your 396 square or oval port? Do you know cam specs?

One more thing, 454s did not come factory with knock sensors until multi port. So if you run anything but a stock spec tbi 454, I would reccomend an isntall of a knock sensor. Actually pretty easy, just have to run one wire from ecm to esc(electronic spark control) module, the rest of the wires go from esc to negative ,switched hot, and knock sensor(I used newer delphi style knock sensor), pretty easy.
__________________
07' buggy, 468tbi, 44"boggers, lotsa tubing, 3-link, 89 C3500 ext. cab, 76 K20 4w disc crappy 33"s

Last edited by mikenholly07; 10-26-2009 at 07:17 AM.
mikenholly07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 07:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13786
Location: moved 7 miles to colfax, ca.
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by abigassbowtie View Post
hey kwtmech got any suggestions or pointers on doing this swap any pictures? and thats all i have been able to get so far is it should or I dont think so I want someone to chime in and say they have done it and their motor is similar hp. thats what Im hoping for anyway
What year truck is the 396 going in

Last edited by KWTMECH; 10-26-2009 at 07:58 AM.
KWTMECH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 09:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Urban Wheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26369
Location: Luyben's Shop Of Horrors
Posts: 4,617
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Urban Wheeler
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenholly07 View Post
YES.
I have a carb to tbi swapped 468 in my buggy, not much to it really. You said you were just under 400hp, you will need for sure a bigger tbi unit and more fuel(pressure).
the 454 unit is the biggest factory one made. I wouldn't bump the fuel pressure up much, I'd probably spring for larger injectors. IIRC there is a spacer that raises the injector body some for better airflow.

An alternative to chip burning is the EBL flash version.
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proeliator View Post
Also, instead of mounting the nitrous bottle between the seats, I'd install a cheese toaster.
Urban Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 10:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130361
Location: South bend, In
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Wheeler View Post
the 454 unit is the biggest factory one made. I wouldn't bump the fuel pressure up much, I'd probably spring for larger injectors. IIRC there is a spacer that raises the injector body some for better airflow.

An alternative to chip burning is the EBL flash version.
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php
There are no larger injectors(90pph inj in factory 454), the only way to get more fuel is to increase fuel pressure. Stock TB is only 600 cfm, you don't get 400 hp big blocks fed through 600cfm TBs or carbs. I totally agree with the EBL upgrade though.
__________________
07' buggy, 468tbi, 44"boggers, lotsa tubing, 3-link, 89 C3500 ext. cab, 76 K20 4w disc crappy 33"s

Last edited by mikenholly07; 10-26-2009 at 10:16 AM.
mikenholly07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Binder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1684
Location: Everett Wa USA
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenholly07 View Post
the only way to get more fuel is to increase fuel pressure.
No you can also increase pulse width. If you can increase pulse width enough to get where you want without the injectors going static you're better off than upping pressure too much. If you try to raise the FP too much and tune down the idle pulse with to compensate then you may run into idle quality issues.....
__________________
S.N.O.R.T.
Binder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 02:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
the truck is a 79 I dont know cam specs! my dad built the motor and he past away about 3 years ago. I will find out when i do this swap I think i will have to to get this to run properly wont I ? I do remember that it was a crane grind and they quit doing this grind cause they were having issues with exhaust lobes going flat this was in the 80's and the oval port cylinders and intake manifold have been ported he built this motor to pull the cabover camper and our boat and he said he never had to downshift even going through the oregon mountains wich some are 6% for 7 or 8 miles
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 03:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
MTblazer87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 122805
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 356
I would suggest that if that cam has been discontinued for wear problems get a new one now so you have the cam specs and hopefully a cam that won't wear flat. Be a good time to do it while the motor is out and your swapping the intake.
__________________
Wheeler: 87 K5, 454TBI, 465, 208, d60, 14bff, a few cuts on the body, rolling on 39.5's
Towrig/DD: 05 Dodge 2500 Cummins, with a few mods

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769919
MTblazer87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 11:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
well the motor has been in there and running great for 25 plus years so i think the cam is not gonna go flat the #1 killer for camshafts is letting them sit for years and then not dumping oil to the motor through the valve cover before running it preferrably doing an oil change but my dad also told me he went through a whole shit ton of valve springs to find some good and soft ones for the exhaust side cause thats the side that was going flat this is what he did for a living was build engines so im pretty trust worthy of his work and love the way this truck pulls so f-ing hard in any terrain so changing the cam is not an option unless i nut up and go hyd/roller wich is gonna happen just not any time this year
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2009, 01:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
well the deal fell through so I didnt get the truck with the t.b.i. unit so any other suggestions on a fuel injection unit whats the best bang for the buck for a easy install as well as easy tuningand capable of say 500 hp
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 06:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130361
Location: South bend, In
Posts: 62
TBI is the best bang for the buck set-up and very easy to install. I wouldn't worry too much about it, all you need is a BBC w/3spd auto wire harness with sensors and ecm plus, tbi unit, fuel pump and tbi distributor. Only four sensors to manage and one IAC. If you are wanting iit to support 500hp, you will like I said before, need more fuel and air. Which means larger tbi unit and more fuel pressure or custom chip.......I have run my injectors at over 24 psi for over 2 years with 0 issues. There are plenty of folks(like myself) runnnig Healthy big blocks @ 500hp with stock style tbi and have done it for less than 500-600 bucks in most cases, it can and has been done. If you want to spend lots of money and plug and play, go buy a kit with instructions and enjoy efi.
__________________
07' buggy, 468tbi, 44"boggers, lotsa tubing, 3-link, 89 C3500 ext. cab, 76 K20 4w disc crappy 33"s
mikenholly07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2009, 09:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
well I got a throttle body set up minus half of the wiring harnes and ecm but I have a complete wiring harness off of a small block here and the ecm off the small block i pulled myself off of a truck i recently parted out so all the sensors should work off of the small block and what about the ecm and harness if i replace the chip in the ecm it should work right ?

Last edited by abigassbowtie; 11-16-2009 at 02:25 PM.
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2009, 02:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member # 122116
Location: Medford OR
Posts: 692
well i been doing some research and it looks like the ecm that is most desirable due to the aftermarket availability is the 1227747 and mine is 312320232 so it looks like i need a new one but they arent to expensive just kind of nervous about buying that kind of shit after i hear about that jeff roberts guy in the other threads and can someone verify for me about the wiring harness's being the same for the big and small block and i need to know if the pinouts are gonna be the same for the two different ecms so i can use the wiring harness i have with the 1227747 ecm i am gonna get
abigassbowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 03:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130361
Location: South bend, In
Posts: 62
I think the ecm you have is a newer one for electronic controlled trans and they are wired differently in the harness. There are a couple places on web you can view harness corrections for diff ecm configs. I don't think they are too bad to do, or you could print off a pinout and do it yourself. Sensors vary year to year, you may have to splice. Hope that helps.

Try some periods and comma's.
__________________
07' buggy, 468tbi, 44"boggers, lotsa tubing, 3-link, 89 C3500 ext. cab, 76 K20 4w disc crappy 33"s
mikenholly07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 03:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130361
Location: South bend, In
Posts: 62
Go to thirdgen.org, there is way more tech on tbi stuff there.
__________________
07' buggy, 468tbi, 44"boggers, lotsa tubing, 3-link, 89 C3500 ext. cab, 76 K20 4w disc crappy 33"s
mikenholly07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 03:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
ballardmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Member # 100770
Location: Stigler,Oklahoma
Posts: 226
affordable fuel injection.
ballardmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.