4-Link VS 52/64 Leaf Springs? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Chevy
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2010, 08:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
4-Link VS 52/64 Leaf Springs?

OK here goes, I need some advice! Can I get that here? I know I can get a lot of opinions but I need info from those that have actually built and driven their rig in a similar way for what I am looking for. A little back ground on me is I will be using the vehicle to run dogs with. We can still run deer with dogs here in Florida and I have hunted in the National Forest for over 30 years. I currently have a 79 GMC SWB with ˝ ton stuff 4.56 gears, 4” lift, 3” body, fenders trimmed with a 350/350/205 and 15x38 boggers and I go pretty much everywhere I need to go. I have moser axles in the rear and so far the front is holding up and I have run this truck hard for 6 years now. I had a 4 speed in it and could not keep the rear locked, broke locker, broke welded spider gears, broke welded axle gears so now I have an auto in it and an open rear.

What I am looking for is a softer/better ride and as light as possible. My plans so far are 350/350/205 or 350/700r4/208 to my ˝ ton axles to keep weight down and add a full spool to the rear. This truck is street driven and one minute you may be runnin 60 mph on the highway and dive down a logging road at 30-40 mph. I have read and read on the 4 link setup vs the 52/64 leaf springs. There are no rocks to flex over but there may be a few logs or ditches to cross. I am looking for a somewhat stable ride for control and softer on the terrible dirt roads that we travel. Almost like a small version of a baja truck but not the $50k+ price tag to go with it.

What I am building; I have a 93 S-10 cab and front clip that I have gutted to reduce weight and going to build an Exo-Cage for dual purpose, one to stand on and also as a pine tree slider. I plan on attaching the cage to the frame at 10 points to keep the frame from flexing as I have cracked/broken my frame several times. The questions that I have are I have the S-10 frame and also a 77 K-5 frame, which one to use? The S-10 is 6” wider than the K-5 as I am sure some of you know. I know either I am going to have to fab up body mounts or move spring perches, that is not a problem. If I go with the K-5 frame I thought about moving the spring perches inward to be directly below the frame so that I can brace them better. Also going to use the front rear spring mount and let the rear run wild which is going to stretch the wheel base which should give a better ride? Correct? Thinking about using the 52s up front and then the 64s in the rear, will this give me the ride I am looking for along with the wheel travel? I have been reading for about 4-5 years now and I believe it will.

4-link setup I am just a little unsure of. I just do not know if it will work when you are running 60 mph down the highway and dive down the logging road at 30-40 and then mud through a creek or savannah. I have read the 4-link calculator countless times and am not completely stupid? I have two guys locally that build drag cars with 4-link and they both have assured me they can build what I am looking for but my two cents are running a drag car straight down the 1/4 mile is a little different than a mini baja race. Also the cost of the 4-link vs the leaf springs is a concern, the spring are in expensive compared to the links and rods and brackets even if we fab the brackets ourselves.

So set me a fire and burn me to the ground with the comments and “SEARCH” remarks. I just would like to hear from those that actually have both.

PS here are some videos of what we run in;

YouTube - Kevin & Brody.mpg
YouTube - One Rough Ride.mpg
YouTube - The Mudd Road
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 08:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
leeman1790's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Member # 113084
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 791
A 52/64 combination that is setup right will ride pretty damn good. Alot better then what you have now. I have 52's in the front and 57's in the rear and it will soak up some pretty mean ruts and holes. Moving the spring hangars and mounts underneath the frame (inboarding) will decrease stability, but possibly help soak up of the rough roads a little better. If you have the money I would 4 link it, it will drive and perform better then the leaf springs, but I'm not too sure on the road stability part. I know there are plenty of sway bar options when running coils/coilovers, but I'm sure someone else will add to what I've already said.

Last edited by leeman1790; 02-24-2010 at 09:05 AM.
leeman1790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-24-2010, 09:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
78stepsideUAK10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Member # 92930
Location: Bradenton, Fl
Posts: 1,796
The leafs would work well for you

I would spend some coin and get high dollars shocks also

You could probably get away with 10" and they are way cheaper in the classifieds than a 14" or 16"

I remember seeing 4 10" fox shocks with reservoirs for around 300 dollars on here recently.
78stepsideUAK10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
Table Rock Crawler
 
gmcxt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Member # 115122
Location: Branson, MO
Posts: 1,178
I would not use the S10 frame.
__________________
wrenchin...fishin...wheelin!
gmcxt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 02:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
dfl701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126764
Location: Alabama
Posts: 434
i would just go with the 64s first. for as cheap as you could pick those up, see how that works. if you still arent happy go with the 4 link
__________________
83 k5 with typical rust
dfl701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 03:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83301
Location: everett, pa
Posts: 3,280
i would go with a 56/63 combo....i have 56/56 combo and love it. with the 38's the 63's wont hang out too much....this route will be way cheaper than linking.
__________________
'79 chevy 1 Ton vortec 350/sm465/205/205/D60/14btFF swampers and exo woot woot
pennsylvaniaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 04:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Rock God
 
florida4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13645
Location: home of the wayward HEI
Posts: 1,513
Blog Entries: 1
another vote for the leafs.
__________________
1972 GMC Submarine
383 / Quadrajet / TH350 / Dubblah / D60 / 14FF / 42's on Stazworks / heavy foote / four eyez / four nicator
1997 GMC K3500 Suburban
TC76 L33 / 4L80E / HP60 SAS / PROJECT TOWHOE
"If it flies, floats or fawks, rent it..."
florida4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 05:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
trkklr77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member # 29016
Location: galt ca, because i wanted my own backyard
Posts: 6,086
leafs are going to save you a lot of money...


just remember, the smoother you want it off road the worse its going to handle on road, ie body roll and brake diving.
trkklr77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 06:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
I make shit happen
 
PSYCHOFAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 127462
Location: Lucerne valley california
Posts: 525
If your running a 10 bolt in the back thats your problem. 10 bolts are junk!
__________________
CampRock Fabrication and Mechanical LLC

Camprockfab@Gmail.com

www.Facebook.com/cgriff4582
PSYCHOFAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 07:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
Probably going to stay with the K-5 frame and add some bracing and weld all of the factor braces that I have not removed. If I move my spring perches inboard by 4" is this going to cause it to have too much body roll while corning with 64s in the back? I want to do this so that I can mount the shocks between the tire and the spring and not interfere with the flat bed that I am going to build for it.

PSYCHOFAB I am running a 12 bolt and have not broken it since I changed to the auto tranny but it is not locked either which I plan on doing. I have a 14-bolt with 4.56 waiting in the shop but I am wanting to stay away from that due to weight of it. I have also already fab disk brakes for my 12 bolt and love them in all of the water and mud.
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 05:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86878
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 2,572
Like the other guys said...if money is a primary concern. Go with leafs.
But you get what you pay for. A well engineered leaf spring suspension is not cheap,
and may rapidly approach the cost of a linked suspension.

I run a homebuilt 3 link front, 4 link rear in similar conditions youve described, and daily drive it.
It rides and handles well on and off road, with no sway bars.
I would highly recommend it. You can manage to keep costs down, like I did, by using coil springs and fabbing your own brackets and mounts.
__________________
-Vinny
[COLOR="Black"]-[/COLOR]from Elizabeth
[COLOR="Black"]Nobody cares about your rigs specs...
[/COLOR][COLOR="Lime"]"Me too" short Crew build[/COLOR]

[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=994394[/url]

^^ Parting Out ^^
Odin K30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin K30 View Post
Like the other guys said...if money is a primary concern. Go with leafs.
But you get what you pay for. A well engineered leaf spring suspension is not cheap,
and may rapidly approach the cost of a linked suspension.

I run a homebuilt 3 link front, 4 link rear in similar conditions youve described, and daily drive it.
It rides and handles well on and off road, with no sway bars.
I would highly recommend it. You can manage to keep costs down, like I did, by using coil springs and fabbing your own brackets and mounts.
Odin K30 do you have any pics of your set up and did you go through all of the calculations in the calculator or did you trial and error build it?
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 07:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86878
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 2,572
/forum/members/odin+k30-albums.html

There are some good pics here.
I hack-fabbed the front. Using some trial and error.
But took my time and used the calculator for the rear.

All in all it turned out very well, it rides and wheels great.
__________________
-Vinny
[COLOR="Black"]-[/COLOR]from Elizabeth
[COLOR="Black"]Nobody cares about your rigs specs...
[/COLOR][COLOR="Lime"]"Me too" short Crew build[/COLOR]

[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=994394[/url]

^^ Parting Out ^^
Odin K30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 10:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Grumpy_old_fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20147
Location: Oakland Orygun
Posts: 6,583
Send a message via Yahoo to Grumpy_old_fart
its my opinion (and take it for what its worth, its free) that you dont need a 4 link.

You will find a much better ride from long flat springs than you will with the factory stuff, and also find that you can get the springs almost anywhere, cheap.

a 4 link is spendy. its complicated. if it works well offroad, it wont make you too happy on road. of course, there are the perfect four links out there, but the amount of work invested in it does not provide you with the enjoyment you desire.

keep it cheap, use leaf springs, dont inboard them. use one shock per wheel. more than that, and youre wasting money and stiffening your ride. you may have to install crossover steering on the front and probably should anyway. if you do crossover, install a panhard bar on the front axle, as longer springs remove steering feel and may allow the axle to move side to side. the panhard bar should be as long as you can make it.
__________________
Empathy, apathy, sympathy.
Sympathy is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.
Grumpy_old_fart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
I make shit happen
 
PSYCHOFAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 127462
Location: Lucerne valley california
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_old_fart View Post
the panhard bar should be as long as you can make it.


The panhard (track bar) and the tie rod need to be the same length and angle or you will have bad bump steer.
__________________
CampRock Fabrication and Mechanical LLC

Camprockfab@Gmail.com

www.Facebook.com/cgriff4582
PSYCHOFAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 12:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 109325
Location: Georgia
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYCHOFAB View Post
The panhard (track bar) and the tie rod need to be the same length and angle or you will have bad bump steer.
He meant drag link, not tie rod. Tie rod "ties" the two knuckles together. So the drag link and track bar should be as close as possible to the same length and angle.
hmatiak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 01:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 109325
Location: Georgia
Posts: 191
52's and 63's, Did real good, getting linked now.





Biggest thing with leafs is axle rap. Might not be an issue for the trails your running. I had both front and rear axle rap.
hmatiak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 03:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86878
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 2,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave70GMC View Post
Leafs are good for the mud. Don't know about 4 link on mud trail.

My links are in the mud plenty
__________________
-Vinny
[COLOR="Black"]-[/COLOR]from Elizabeth
[COLOR="Black"]Nobody cares about your rigs specs...
[/COLOR][COLOR="Lime"]"Me too" short Crew build[/COLOR]

[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=994394[/url]

^^ Parting Out ^^
Odin K30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 03:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Loftis61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Member # 148442
Location: Okinawa, Japan
Posts: 1,135
Id use the K5 frame and plate it for McBeefyness

Be careful with that body lift, Ive heard of them coming through the floor on people. AND the halfton axles on the 38's. Normally I would say your ok with 38's on halftons but boggers are a different kind of monster.

I think with a good leaf spring setup and some good anti-wrap bars, youll do just fine. You can always think about a shackle flip in the back.

As said, one shock per corner, and from your account, you better invest in some damn good ones. Let us know how it works out.
__________________
Semper Fidelis
Loftis61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 07:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
Thanks for all of the comments fellows. I am going with leafs and picked up a pair of 54s for the front and 64s for the rear today from a local junk yard. Got all four of them for $100 and they pulled them. I have done business here before and will probably be getting some more stuff from them.

I will be using a shackle flip in the rear of some sort but at this point I am toying with the idea of moving to a SWB frame so that the wheel base will be about 132" vs the 120" if I go with the K-5 frame. Just not sure if the longer frame will actually ride that much better. Also thought about using a built tube frame out of 2x4x3/16 and running a straight frame. Any ideas on this?

I had originally planned on a 14bolt in the rear and a D44 up front but I have been running the 12bolt and 10 bolt for 4 years now and thankfully have not broken anything but the rear carrier. I had a 4spd for the first 2 yrs and blowed up a locker, I do not know what kind it was but it was supose to be factory? I then welded my spider gears up and they held for a year and then a buddy said I can build it and you won't break it but you will have to put hardend axles in it so I put moser axles in and he welded the axle gears up... Lasted 3 weekends in the woods and I sheared one of the gears completely off. I give it hell on the dirt road and in the woods but if I know there is a root in the rut I will play it safe or if I am turning around in the ditch and coming back on the highway I would take it easy trying to keep from breaking the rear. I would like to stay with the 1/2 ton axles just due to the weight.

This brings me to another question. My rig weighs in at 6200 lbs loaded like I use it. Can I bring that weight down to around 4000 lbs by going to the S-10 X-cab with just a front clip and it all gutted pretty much? If I can get close to this weight I will be very happy.

Here are a couple of pics of my rig the way it is now and the springs I picked up today.
Attached Images
   
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4

Last edited by chipola_river_man; 02-27-2010 at 07:46 PM.
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 07:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
I make shit happen
 
PSYCHOFAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 127462
Location: Lucerne valley california
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmatiak View Post
He meant drag link, not tie rod. Tie rod "ties" the two knuckles together. So the drag link and track bar should be as close as possible to the same length and angle.
Thank you. At least some ones paying attention. I ran it by my 1 year old doughter befor I posted, she said it was allright. Damn kids allways makin you look stupid.
__________________
CampRock Fabrication and Mechanical LLC

Camprockfab@Gmail.com

www.Facebook.com/cgriff4582
PSYCHOFAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 07:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
By the way I do plan on the cross over steering but have also thought about going full hydro but how will it drive on the highway at 60mph?
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 09:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
noface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 87021
Location: Just South Of Nashville, TN
Posts: 327
you'll be hard pressed to reach 4k in weight with the description of goods. Especially once you get it loaded up with some tube for sliders and a cage.

I've got a S10 cab truck, 1 tons, sbc , yadda yadda and it's around 5k.

ditch the half ton axles. You'll be glad you did. No sense polishing a turd...
noface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 04:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104596
Location: Altha, FL
Posts: 18
This is what I drug up last weekend, my sister-n-law wanted to know how much the guy paid me to haul his junk off

Got the cab off and gutted. The K-5 we drug in a while back and stripped it down also.
Attached Images
     
__________________
79 GMC K-1500 (6 trucks in one but it is rust free)
350/350/205
1/2ton (won't stay together) 4.56 gears
Moser Axles rear (Welded rear - broke twice + broke locker, open now)
15x38.5 Boggers

Project Truck 93 X-cab S-10

DD = 2005 GMC 3500 CC Dually 4x4
chipola_river_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 07:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Grumpy_old_fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20147
Location: Oakland Orygun
Posts: 6,583
Send a message via Yahoo to Grumpy_old_fart
yer gonna play hell with a k5 frame and an S10 xtra cab body. The frame pitches up right where the back of the cab needs to sit. very hard to keep the cab low on the frame.
__________________
Empathy, apathy, sympathy.
Sympathy is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.
Grumpy_old_fart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.