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Old 02-14-2011, 07:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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454 cam help

Help!! building a 454 .030 forged pistons. 9.5 compression. Intake carb and headers. Stock gearing with a turbo 400 .going in a 92 gmc 4x4. Looking to run top rpm of 5500-6000. Need help with cam roller or flat hyd?
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not sure about bbc but i have always liked the comp extreme energy cams. I have the flat tappet xe262 in my truck, and i like the off idle torque it puts out.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You did not say what you intend to use the truck for. Towing? Drag racing? Daily driver? Need to know the application before recomending anything.

As to the roller vs flat tappet question deff go roller if you can afford it. Im not sure but 92 bbc might be roller from the factory? The most important thing to remember in cam selection is to make sure your cam, heads, and intake work well together (operating range, rpm, etc).

I have used Comp cams extreme 4x4 cams (2) in the past (bbc) and liked the off idle response. I have an Erson in now cant remember the specs but runs like a raped ape at 6k, not as good off idle as the comps though.

Also: the search is your friend.... embrace the search.... become one with the search....
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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what heads? casting number, please.

what rpm range... where do you want peak torque?

stock gearing? define stock, several options available.

tire size?

application?

roller cam, the cost will recoup the amount of times you have to replace flat tappet cams and bearings in the long run.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
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http://www.compperformancegroupstore...=MARKIVCAMHRXE

XR282HR

it's all about your combination, if you don't really have a static compression ratio of 9.5:1, maybe lower than 9:1 that cam may not be real happy in your engine. But if everything is appropriately sized such as carb/intake/heads/headers you should be rockin and rollin. They all need to picked for one specific goal or rpm range.

hydraulic roller has many advantages over flat tappet except price. If you can go roller cam do it!

even with large ovals or small peanut port that cam should do what you want. After talking to comp cams and my engine builder, they tend to favor the extreme energy line for most situations.

I called and told them what I was doing, 5000 lb + 4x4 truck and they didn't even mention the extreme4x4 line. Even using their "camquest" program extreme energy is the most common suggestion.

I am also building a BBC 463 (.040 over 454) for a 92 chevy, but using aggressive gearing and very aggressive cam. Good luck

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Old 02-15-2011, 03:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You get what you pay for. Most of your cheaper line of cams today are 60's technology or sloppy regrinds. Spend the money and do it right the first time.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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sorry its a 77 454 with the 781 heads, max 6000 rpms 35" tires 3:70 gears,part time street truck, and I am sponsoring this ride for my step son,so I do like the roller but not the cost.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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My build is similar to yours only mines a 468.This is the cam i picked for my build......http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ARKIVCAMHFT4X4

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Old 02-15-2011, 05:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The 781 heads are some of the best flowing stock oval port heads, so they should work well up to 6000 rpm. Make sure to up grade your valve train to match. Stock valves suck! I droped a stock valve at 6000rpm's on my 454 the first time i built it, cost me a set of pistons, a head and had to go .060 over to clean up the mess.
Invest in a rev limiter, cheap insurance. I run an MSD 6AL "soft touch". No complaints.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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sorry its a 77 454 with the 781 heads, max 6000 rpms 35" tires 3:70 gears,part time street truck, and I am sponsoring this ride for my step son,so I do like the roller but not the cost.
I run a 74 454 w/781 & oversized valves. Non roller. .30 over, Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI, Mallory egn, full balanceing...about 9.1comp.
The cam is CompCam Xtreme 4x4 Flat Tappet = PN 11-231-3
I would call their tech line and tell them all your parts and they will match your build taking all the guess work out
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The 781 heads are a good start. They work really well if you get the bigger valves and a good port job. I was orignially looking for a set of them then i came across a set of 990's w/ 2.25/1.88 ported, that i couldn't pass up. The PN 11-231-3 is good for a fairly stock engine but if you want performance id go bigger than that one
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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A small hydraulic roller cam will provide years of durability over a flat tappet cam. Depending on how much zinc is removed from our oils, flat tappet camshafts have a severely diminished life expectancy. Due to the lack of zinc and phosphorous in the oil, there is a large increase in cams going flat, which generates more metal in the oil, embedding it in the bearings, ruining crank journals and rod journals.

So… if you lose a cam, rebuild the engine, lose another cam, rebuild an engine, lose a third cam and again rebuild the engine, you could have done it right once and saved a LOT of money.


But what do I know?
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Heres some information you might want to look at if your going to consider a flat tappet cam.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128203
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343627
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283416
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243928
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195620

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Old 02-15-2011, 03:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_old_fart View Post
A small hydraulic roller cam will provide years of durability over a flat tappet cam. Depending on how much zinc is removed from our oils, flat tappet camshafts have a severely diminished life expectancy. Due to the lack of zinc and phosphorous in the oil, there is a large increase in cams going flat, which generates more metal in the oil, embedding it in the bearings, ruining crank journals and rod journals.

So… if you lose a cam, rebuild the engine, lose another cam, rebuild an engine, lose a third cam and again rebuild the engine, you could have done it right once and saved a LOT of money.


But what do I know?
it sounds like this experience left a sour taste in your mouth once before grumpy

as said before, a roller cam. call a company with a good reputation, tell them your application, and have one built for your engine.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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A small hydraulic roller cam will provide years of durability over a flat tappet cam. Depending on how much zinc is removed from our oils, flat tappet camshafts have a severely diminished life expectancy. Due to the lack of zinc and phosphorous in the oil, there is a large increase in cams going flat, which generates more metal in the oil, embedding it in the bearings, ruining crank journals and rod journals.

So… if you lose a cam, rebuild the engine, lose another cam, rebuild an engine, lose a third cam and again rebuild the engine, you could have done it right once and saved a LOT of money.


But what do I know?
the quailty of oil will play a role in the life of a flat tappet. Use a good racing oil with zinc content and your good. Problem is people are chep pick theire engines up do the break in and drain the oil I put in. VR1 is about the cheapest or some of the fleet oil but ist about the same in price. VR1 is about $4.50 a qt and then you could run gibbs, kendal, or other racing oil
I dont see the problem with paying 4.50 a qt for a 7-10 qt system for oil changes and I also run a good quailty filter , a wix racing filter with the bypass plugged on the adapter on every performance motor that goes out of my shop
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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the quailty of oil will play a role in the life of a flat tappet. Use a good racing oil with zinc content and your good. Problem is people are chep pick theire engines up do the break in and drain the oil I put in. VR1 is about the cheapest or some of the fleet oil but ist about the same in price. VR1 is about $4.50 a qt and then you could run gibbs, kendal, or other racing oil
I dont see the problem with paying 4.50 a qt for a 7-10 qt system for oil changes and I also run a good quailty filter , a wix racing filter with the bypass plugged on the adapter on every performance motor that goes out of my shop
and you might be the one exception.

most people balk at 2.89 per quart generic oil.

agreed on the Wix 5 series filter with a plugged bypass.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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and you might be the one exception.

most people balk at 2.89 per quart generic oil..
I never could figure that one out. Considering the cost of the out come it should be a no brainer.
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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cam

thanks to all, looks like I will be going down the road of XR276HR comp cam, now what to do with the 781 heads? new valves a little bigger ones?what size?
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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bbc

The 781's are a really good factory head. The work done depends on the horsepower you want to pull out and the condition of the parts you have to start with. A 781 head can support 400-425 horsepower with very little work. Just remember that you can spend plenty of money on those factory 781 and make really impressive power, but anything close to the 1200-1500 dollar mark and you're going to be really close to a set of quality aftermarket heads. I'd leave the factory valve sizes, give them a valve job, good springs/retainers/locks and maybe a little coin on some pocket porting. I have a set just like that on my 454 and its been a great all round street/trail motor. I run the XE268 cam and it pulls strong all the way to 5800. Good luck with your build.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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2.19 intake and 1.88 exhaust very popular valve size for that head. I have the 049 (essentially the same head) with those valves.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What carb, intake, and exhaust are you going to run? Before you upgrade your heads you'll need to make sure the intake and exhaust will support that change.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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750 cfm carb, air gap intake , headers with 2 ˝ true dual magnaflows out the back.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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750 cfm carb, air gap intake , headers with 2 ˝ true dual magnaflows out the back.
still no casting number for the heads.

help us out here.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:03 AM   #24 (permalink)
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sorry its a 77 454 with the 781 heads, max 6000 rpms 35" tires 3:70 gears,part time street truck, and I am sponsoring this ride for my step son,so I do like the roller but not the cost.
full cast # is 335781
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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good heads, you can run a 2.25 intake valve in them, some cleanup work and they will support up to 700 hp. you dont have to go that wild, though the heads will work well with a hydraulic roller and make plenty of power.

RPM airgap, 220* at .050 intake, 228* at .050 on exhaust, 1.8 roller rockers, get as much lift out of it as you can. 112 LCA, mill the heads to 114cc's and deck the block to 0. with a flat top piston, you can expect 500 hp using a 750 or 800 carb, 550 torque.... and still have pump gas.
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