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Old 06-24-2011, 10:08 AM   #201 (permalink)
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I think that I will be near 1/2 way. My rear cycles 19" and has about 7.5" of shaft showing (16" C/O's front and rear). My front used to cycle ~17" and had ~ 7" of shaft, I didn't like it and didn't want to raise the front.

As far as front drive shaft I will be running a short ~9" or less, Midship shaft that points down. Down enough to keep the 1350 happy but as far as it will go with my grinded yoke. Then the 1410 at the end of the midship will (hopefully) be able to clear. At least that's what I'm shooting for. If I start getting vibes I will replace the 1410 with a 1350 CV (that I already have) in the middle.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:27 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Front shock mockup

Time to start work on mounting the front shocks. I'd actually started this with a crude CAD drawing to get a better feel for the range of travel fror the front shocks.



I worked on the fore / aft location of the upper mount quite a bit before settling on this position. This particular orientation may loook a little odd being canted forward at the top, but this position minimizes the arc of travel that the upper shock bushing must swing through.

Several points worth mentioning:

1) For the moment, the plan is to deviate from my original 1979 model front sheetmetal (tired of steel hoods folding in half in the middle) and go with 1985 model sheetmetal. The hoodline is sloped lower on the 1985 model hood, and the intention is to try not to have anything (like shock hoops) sticking through the hood ruining my line of sight or grabbing unwanted attention.

2) Judging from my best measurements, it became somewhat painfully obvious that the 18" travel F-O-A shocks I'd bought earlier for the frontend were going to be a tad too long to keep the shock hoops out of the hood. Those custom heim adapters I built for the shocks add about 1" to the shock collapsed length, so they're not helping anything---but I'm keeping them for sake of running a bigger heim on the bottom. So, I order a pair of 16" F-O-A's for the front and move the 18's to the back---no biggie, and not totally unexpected.

3) All indications are that I'll achieve 7 inches of uptravel (I was shooting for 6 inches minimum), and still have substantial downtravel available, even with limiting myself to 16" stroke.

4) I imagine I'll have some sort of crossbrace tying the front shock hoops together, and it looks as though it'll fall roughly in line with the upper shock mount. I've been through a couple different EFI manifolds (Accel Super Ram and Arizona Speed & Marine tuned port crossram). The AS&M unit was my clear favorite, but both of those manifolds mount the throttle body right where the shock hoop crossbrace is going to be. So, another intake swap is going to be necessary.
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Old 06-26-2011, 10:11 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Ok, I've got to comment on something that doesn't have anything to do with your build. I've got to say how well written this is/has been. It's great reading, keep it up!

Oh and since I'm already typing, great job on the rig so far too.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:10 AM   #204 (permalink)
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Thse high angle CV's are nothing more then a slightly modified superduty rear driveshaft CV. Grind the the tits out and and enjoy 40+ degrees angle with reduced driveline vibrations.
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:21 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Dude, I was a machinest for a bit, and your work and welds are damn good. Wish I was still one just for access to the tools. awesome job.
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:51 PM   #206 (permalink)
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I'm cracking up about the dude's name above me.

So, why are you MOA? Mine's because I can like to shoot sub-MOA groups.

I'm also one of BROR and Twin Turbo's buds IRL- I can honestly say to all of y'all (and I'm a former machinist also- well at least I got paid to run a lathe in college) that his work is this nice in person.

The forthcoming videos will be great- he's been airing trucks out before a lot of us were born.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:33 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DieselS10 View Post
Ok, I've got to comment on something that doesn't have anything to do with your build. I've got to say how well written this is/has been. It's great reading, keep it up!

Oh and since I'm already typing, great job on the rig so far too.

I appreciate the compliment! Part of the challenge (and the fun) for me is presenting the material in such a fashion that the casual observer can follow my thought process. So long as there aren't any objections, I'd just as well continue with this storytelling style.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MNtal View Post
Thse high angle CV's are nothing more then a slightly modified superduty rear driveshaft CV. Grind the the tits out and and enjoy 40+ degrees angle with reduced driveline vibrations.
Yeah, not surprising. Unfortunately, the Super Duty stuff isn't especially plentiful in wrecking yards around here, and when it does show up, they act as though it's made of gold.

I'll have to see how bad the vibration is once I'm up and running and make a decision from there. I'm hoping to avoid "needing" BAMF's front and rear.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #209 (permalink)
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Dude, I was a machinest for a bit, and your work and welds are damn good. Wish I was still one just for access to the tools. awesome job.
You're only saying that about the welds because I've been careful not to post any detailed closeups. None of the welds are really as nice as I'd like them to be.

I could get someone else to do the welding for me, but I'd never learn that way. Ditto for the machining, though there are certainly times I wouldn't mind handing some of it off.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:53 PM   #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by subMOA View Post
I'm cracking up about the dude's name above me.

So, why are you MOA? Mine's because I can like to shoot sub-MOA groups.

I'm also one of BROR and Twin Turbo's buds IRL- I can honestly say to all of y'all (and I'm a former machinist also- well at least I got paid to run a lathe in college) that his work is this nice in person.

The forthcoming videos will be great- he's been airing trucks out before a lot of us were born.
No, the work only looks nice because I have the luxury of leaving out the crap I've done that embarrrasses me.

I said early on that I didn't have a lot of pictures of the truck in the earlier years, but that's not exactly true. This thread isn't the place for them though. Maybe after this thread is done I can post some of them in the "ghetto / booty fab" thread where they belong.

Hopefully I'm making up now for many of the skeletons in the closet.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:03 PM   #211 (permalink)
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More front shock mockup fun

With a target placement in mind for the front shock upper mounts, now it's a matter of getting some structure up there.



That primer red chunk of square tubing is suspended in place off of the chassis with some threaded rods, pipe spacers, and the angle iron temporarily attached to the framerail. That's the easiest way I could come up with to locate the upper mount position in space. I'm taking all my measurements from my radius arm pivots, and the angle iron lining the frame makes it really easy to measure forward while ignoring the taper in the front section of the frame.

Next step from this point is to anchor that crosstube semi-securely to the frame, tack some shock mounts onto the axle, and then cycle the suspension. Didn't take any pictures through that process, but I didn't see any issues and locked in that position for the upper mounts.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:33 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Other items of interest in this photograph




1) I got around my throttle body issue with the old AS&M manifold by swapping to a manifold from a 1997-2000 454 Vortec truck. These manifolds hang the throttle body off of the right hand side of the plenum rather than in front, meaning now there's nothing in front to get in the way of a crossbrace. The Vortec manifold has a oval port cross section at the gasket flange somewhere in between the traditional oval port and the "peanut port". That doesn't really match too well with the "roval" (rectangle / oval?) ports in the Edelbrock aluminum heads.......but nobody makes a manifold that matches those heads well anyway. So, there's a mismatch, but at least no flat areas opposing the incoming airflow. I've got another of these manifold bases, and I'm saving it for a future porting project to try to better match those head ports.

2) No, that's not the air filter I intend to run. I needed to cap of the opening of the throttle body, and an extra air filter off of my 250R just happened to be handy and the right size. I'll have a snorkel of sorts, with the air cleaner mounted inside the cab, drawing air from the cowl area. Been running that setup for years now, but this time the length of the snorkel plumbing will be less than half of what it had been previously with manifolds having front mounted throttle bodies.

3) All of the header primary tubes on the driver's side and most of the ones on the passenger's side cleared the framerails. Those Edelbrock TES headers came closer to clearing than any other headers I tried, so I figured if I only had to re-route one primary tube, that wouldn't be so bad.

4) Bending shock hoops for this project will be my first experience with a tubing bender. At this stage, I'm not quite comfortable enough to weld the shock hoops directly to the frame, so the hoops will have flanges that bolt to the chassis. I'm plenty comfortable with bolted flanges, for some reason. That primer gray piece directly below the bottom radiator hose is one of said flanges.

5) It sure would have been nice if I could have made the panhard rod mount on the axle a bit taller. That would make the panhard rod lay flatter at ride height, which more than likely would reduce lateral shifting of the axle throughout its stroke. As it is, that panhard rod isn't too far from contacting the bottom of the framerail at full stuff. If I had to do it over, I'm sure I'd steal some ideas from K5runner.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:06 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Hey so I have a question, why are you running the radius arms? I might of missed you explaining your reason, but you are undoubtedly a very smart guy. Why would you run a design like that off road? I'm pretty sure you are not running a bearing of sorts on the long tube of the front axle. So why with the two solid mounted links?(no bushings to deflect why the axle articulates) Everything else on your build is so well thought out.

BTW, I might be a little bias against radius arm suspension designs.
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:47 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Hey so I have a question, why are you running the radius arms? I might of missed you explaining your reason, but you are undoubtedly a very smart guy. Why would you run a design like that off road? I'm pretty sure you are not running a bearing of sorts on the long tube of the front axle. So why with the two solid mounted links?(no bushings to deflect why the axle articulates) Everything else on your build is so well thought out.

BTW, I might be a little bias against radius arm suspension designs.
See Post #16 on the first page
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:02 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by K5runner@hotmail.com View Post
Hey so I have a question, why are you running the radius arms? I might of missed you explaining your reason, but you are undoubtedly a very smart guy. Why would you run a design like that off road? I'm pretty sure you are not running a bearing of sorts on the long tube of the front axle. So why with the two solid mounted links?(no bushings to deflect why the axle articulates) Everything else on your build is so well thought out.

BTW, I might be a little bias against radius arm suspension designs.

I figured I could keep the truck lower with radius arms than any other suspension setup, though if I had to do it over, I might give a 3 link more consideration.

Only the driver's side link is mounted solid. There is a custom molded urethane bushing (posts 58 through 68) on the passenger's side to enable articulation. Most of the radius arm build is in the first 3 pages or so.

Most people hear "radius arms" and automatically think "Ford Bronco / F150", which isn't exactly well known for articulation. This setup is a bit different.

Oh, and rest assured---I'm much more "smart ass" than "smart guy".
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:37 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Tube bending first attempt

Prior to this project, I didn't own a tubing bender. When I made the decision to go coilover, I pretty much figured I'd have some bent tube in my future, so I went ahead and bought a JD Squared Model 3. These front shock hoops were my first tube bending project.



To be on the safe side and to try not to waste any more tube than necessary while learning the ropes, I decided to make a bend template from a length of 3/16" steel rod. I bent it to the shape I thought I needed, compared the fit to another fullsize Chevy truck I have (to try to estimate master cylinder location), and went ahead with the bending. First piece came out very close to my intended dimensions---only required a little fine tuning with a torch to get the angle just right. Got the ends trimmed, got it tacked in place, then figured I'd better set the cab on soon for a mockup to make double sure I'd have adequate master cylinder clearance.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:45 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Minor detail

Chevy 2WD frames are not symmetrical. The steering box mount formed into the LH framerail falls inboard of thecorresponding portion of the RH framerail by about 5/8". The forward flange for the shock hoops bolts directly to the framerail on the RH side, but has to be spaced off of the LH side if the shock hoops are to be mirror images of each other.



I'm glad I measured before fabrication started instead of running off with a bad assumption. Otherwise I would not have been pleased with myself or the end result.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:30 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Cab trial fit

Before going too much further, I figured it made sense to trial fit the cab and check for clearance between the master cylinder and the shock hoop.

Not too bad, all things considered...





These pics were taken with the 18" F-O-A's mocked up in place, but I'd pretty much decided by this point to go with the 16" shocks up front and get the upper eye underneath the shock hoop rather than off to the side.

That vacuum booster is getting in the way at the moment and preventing me from going to some taller valve covers (something I can fit some Jesel shaft rockers underneath). So, I figure I'll be switching to hydroboost eventually. Don't have one of those units handy to compare---I just hope they don't push the master cylinder any further forward.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:39 PM   #219 (permalink)
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I figured this was going to be trouble



Kinda figured that knot on the Ford 205 case was going to be a homewrecker.

I could clock the transfer case down to keep it out of the floor and lose some ground clearance, or leave it clocked up, cut the floor, and keep the bottom of the transfer case above the bottom of the framerails.

I guess I can always use more practice welding thin sheetmetal---so...on with cutting the floor. One of the easier decisions on this project, actually.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:15 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Can you grind the corner of the 205? I cannot tell how much clearance you need. I had to beat the living shit out of the floor of my 92' dodge to get my Ford 205 to fit. I wish I had just busted out the grinder.

And good idea on the shock mount. I don't understand this new fad, building a tubing structure and then making the shock mount on tabs that are way off to the side. I swear all the build (some very high dollar) look like shit and very weak, because of that.

Either way great work keep it up.

And I now (after going back and re-reading) understand your front end (but it not my cup of tea).

Oh and the hydro boost, it has a tube/canister thing for pressure or spring on the older units. that sticks down and to the pass side. But I had my tall valve covers and they cleared just a pain to remove. And I believe that the hydro boost is shorter, so your master will stick out less. I have my hydro boost on the bench I can throw you some #'s if you would like.

And if you are going to run hydro boost and full hydro steering (like I had). Get the hydro boost ported and rebuild by a steering shop. I had Lee Manufacturing from Sun Valley, Ca do mine. They also build my pump (after PSC "fixed it" TWICE ) IIRC at 6 GPM @ 1600PSI
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:43 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Can you grind the corner of the 205? I cannot tell how much clearance you need. I had to beat the living shit out of the floor of my 92' dodge to get my Ford 205 to fit. I wish I had just busted out the grinder.

And good idea on the shock mount. I don't understand this new fad, building a tubing structure and then making the shock mount on tabs that are way off to the side. I swear all the build (some very high dollar) look like shit and very weak, because of that.

Either way great work keep it up.

And I now (after going back and re-reading) understand your front end (but it not my cup of tea).

Oh and the hydro boost, it has a tube/canister thing for pressure or spring on the older units. that sticks down and to the pass side. But I had my tall valve covers and they cleared just a pain to remove. And I believe that the hydro boost is shorter, so your master will stick out less. I have my hydro boost on the bench I can throw you some #'s if you would like.

And if you are going to run hydro boost and full hydro steering (like I had). Get the hydro boost ported and rebuild by a steering shop. I had Lee Manufacturing from Sun Valley, Ca do mine. They also build my pump (after PSC "fixed it" TWICE ) IIRC at 6 GPM @ 1600PSI

That's a negative on grinding the 205. I'd need to take off a half inch just to make it clear, and another half inch for comfortable clearance. Much better to raise the floor, and I can't come up with a real excuse not to do it right.

If you can grab some dimensions on the hydro boost unit and maybe a few photos, I'd definitely appreciate it! That's another one of those changes I can squeeze in once the truck is up and running, but I don't suppose it hurts to start gathering information now. Looks like my hydraulic schematic is about to get involved, with full hydro steering plus hydroboost brakes plus Milemarker hydraulic winch (plus maybe another little article I'm thinking of adding into the circuit for "enhancing" the winch circuit).

Excellent point on sending the hydroboost core to a pro steering rebuilder---I hadn't given that much thought. I'm in 100% agreement about Lee Manufacturing. Been running their pump and box since 1998---both are still going strong, though I did sell the box and am going full hydro this time around. Never considered sending steering components to anyone else---had no reason to. My Lee Manufacturing components never let me down, and fulfilled all my expectations.

Right now my pump puts out about 4.7 gpm, and I'll have to prove to myself that it's insufficient before trying to upgrade.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:15 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Front shock upper mounts---continued

16" F-O-A shock set in place:



Closeup of the upper mount:




One of these days I'm going to have to invest in some sort of CNC plasma table setup (Torchmate, or PlasmaCam, or ???). All this hand cutting is starting to grate on my nerves. I'm sure I'd also save quite a bit on grinding wheels, cutoff wheels, flap discs, and 4 1/2" angle grinders. Seems like I'm lucky to get about 2 years out of a new DeWalt 4 1/2" grinder. I suppose the grinder gods are trying to tell me something.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:06 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Try a Bosch angle grinder I've been using mine for the last 25 years. It's been a good 4 1/2" grinder used it pretty much every day for 15 of those 25 years. Or a Milwaukee, I've got several of their power tools and they last like cast iron.

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Old 07-07-2011, 09:16 PM   #224 (permalink)
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Okay so I got 6-7/8" from firewall to master mounting surface (for the hydroboost)

And the canister does stick down a bit.

And I have really bad luck with the Dewalt's. Milwaukee has been way better to me. And that Porta-band is the chit. Without it I would be lost. I have one for free hand work and one mounted on a SWAG mount. Helps a bunch on fabing things. That and my belt sander I got from my neighbor, 1.5"x36" belt makes things look smooth.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:19 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Ya, All Dewalt's are is a Black and Decker with a different color case..............so supposed to be their industrial division but most of the parts will inter-change between them.
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