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Old 02-21-2012, 08:07 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
Are any speed signs posted near or on the lakebed? What are the rule/laws concerning vehicle speed on blm land?
*I am pretty sure I remember seeing 15mph signs on the lakebed and 25 on boone rd. coming in.


*edited* I know JV isnt in the el Centro jurisdiction but I was unable to find Barstow's regs.

Quote:
from:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcen...hvs/caohv.html

SPEED LAWS:


1. Basic speed law: Don't operate an off-highway vehicle faster than it is safe for conditions. (38305 C.V.C.)

2. Prima Facie Speed Limit: The prima facie speed limit within 50 feet of any campground, campsite, or concentration of people or animals shall be under 15 m.p.h. unless changed as authorized by the code. (38310 C.V.C.)
And since I didnt know what prima facie was...:


Quote:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_l...es#Prima_facie

Prima facie:

Most states have absolute speed limits, meaning that a speed in excess of the limit is illegal per se. However, some states have prima facie speed limits.[72] This allows motorists to defend against a speeding charge if it can be proven that the speed was in fact reasonable and prudent.

Last edited by keeptahoewhite; 02-21-2012 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:48 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Trash removal at the end. I seperated everything into recyclables and actual trash and when I went to drop the trash at the end of the week I was told no. Pack it out. Not going to happen for 2600 miles again. Got to NM and the birds got in the truck and tore it to hell making a mess.
Doug,

Its been pack your trash out, for at least the past 2 years. They announce it a million times each year.

Just do what we do and strategically place it so that you can jettison it at food a fuel stops along the way. We looked at it as a method of consumer feedback. Good service = no trash. Bad service = blown trailer tire
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:28 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeptahoewhite View Post
-As far as media goes, if you look at this pic that was posted of Choc. Thunder,(http://indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/race2.html) the MAsterpull shirts are the same color as the media vests. Just something to consider. I know there are still a ton of vests in that pic.
Not sure if you were there or not, but those of us on staff had no issues telling the difference between the master pull guys and the media.

The hard part was keeping the media back at a safe distance. What seemed to work was when one of the masterpull or safety guys re-ran my extension cord and made the new "line in the sand". They didn't cross after that and most of those problems in the "worst" area went away.

Left a few issues immediately above camera rock but nothing that talking to them didn't resolve.

Last edited by Travis Waldher; 02-22-2012 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:47 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Well, good. You answered all my questions. Now I can call just to BS. Great job!
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:35 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeptahoewhite View Post
*I am pretty sure I remember seeing 15mph signs on the lakebed and 25 on boone rd. coming in.


*edited* I know JV isnt in the el Centro jurisdiction but I was unable to find Barstow's regs.



And since I didnt know what prima facie was...:
Based upon what you quoted, you still do not know what a prima facie speed is.

In simpler terms than those used in Wikipedia, a prima facie speed is that speed which is safe for the given conditions. While it is sometimes used to argue that travelling above the speed limit is OK given perfect conditions and very light traffic, it is more often used when conditions exist where it is unsafe to even drive at the speed limit.

For example, on I-15 going over Cajon Summit the speed limit is 70 MPH. It is often very foggy due to low clouds there. When in dense fog, even though the speed limit is 70 MPH it could be very unsafe to even go 40 MPH (as massive chain reaction accidents often prove). The CHP would be right to give you a citation for speeding in such conditions, and you would be liable for causing an accident if your speed was proven to be above the prima facie speed and you plowed into someone.

Boone Road was posted as 25 mph. Dave mentioned several times in driver's meetings that the speed limit on the lakebed was 25 mph. He also said that speed inside Hammertown should be 5 mph.

So, back to prima facie. Even though the posted speed limit is 25 mph on the lakebed, is it safe to go 25 mph on most of the lakebed where everyone is camped? No! Prima facie speed there is much lower, probably closer to the 5 MPH that Dave wanted inside Hammertown. 15 MPH might be prudent on the outskirts of the camping area, and 25 MPH out on the open lakebed.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:02 AM   #106 (permalink)
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The finish line jump didn't work out the best.

I think the hot finish needs to be at least a quarter mile from anything public, the stupid runs deep in the helmets at the end.

The course markings at the bottom of CT on he second lap were nice where they directed us away from the rock sluice in the bottom and directly to the gate keeper.

Not sure what happened with the markings at the USMC detour at mile 12 on the first lap but we were past the course turn before we knew it and we were looking for it and had preran it. Luckily it didn't turn into a big deal and was perfect on the second lap. Your dudes were doing good on the course during the race.

Overall very awesome event, always stuff to tune in but overall super job by just about everyone.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:36 AM   #107 (permalink)
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They musta put the markings up directing us around the sluice just before the gate keeper on CT AFTER I drove into it and had to back out of it because of a volunteer Jeep blocking the exit beside the Pirate van. I got passed in the process of backing out
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:37 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Not sure what happened with the markings at the USMC detour at mile 12 on the first lap but we were past the course turn before we knew it and we were looking for it and had preran it. Luckily it didn't turn into a big deal and was perfect on the second lap.
The Marines pulled down our markers (what everyone was told to look for in the Driver's meeting, string with streamers and wrong way signs) and put up 2 of their white signs, one on either side of the track. Many people missed the turn due to dust and not seeing the markings they were told would be there. To their credit, the Marines were not upset about it and decided to not bother the racers that missed the turn.

I do not know about lap 2, I was not there. They may have put something up between the signs because many people missed the turn in the dust on the first lap.
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Last edited by TurtleTruck; 02-22-2012 at 09:52 AM. Reason: reword and clarify
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:00 AM   #109 (permalink)
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You better pack your lunch buddy!!! I'd rather go toe to toe with you than the real bandit. He about popped my eyes out giving me a bear hug.
BWHAHAHAHAHAH!

I figured we're even now with him. Two years ago the unnammed bandit got the horse bite from Lance at a WEROCK event in exchange for a case of IronClad at KOH. I figured he'd get me back one way or the other. A 5 dollar light aint no big deal and makes for a good story 20 years from now.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:04 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by caddishack View Post
They musta put the markings up directing us around the sluice just before the gate keeper on CT AFTER I drove into it and had to back out of it because of a volunteer Jeep blocking the exit beside the Pirate van. I got passed in the process of backing out
Was actually broken competitor vehicles that ended up blocking the sluice.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:09 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TurtleTruck View Post
The Marines pulled down our markers (what everyone was told to look for in the Driver's meeting, string with streamers and wrong way signs) and put up 2 of their white signs, one on either side of the track. Many people missed the turn due to dust and not seeing the markings they were told would be there. To their credit, the Marines were not upset about it and decided to not bother the racers that missed the turn.

I do not know about lap 2, I was not there. They may have put something up between the signs because many people missed the turn in the dust on the first lap.
We were about the 34th car through there on Lap one. Started 36th passed a few guys by then and there were no course markings just the Marine Base signs which seemed new but since we were so focused durning pre running on turning left and looking for the "new" course I couldn't have told you if they were new or not.

As soon as we went by those signs i just told Stephen to turn left no matter what turn left. We have to make the effort to get back on course here even if we are violating the Marine base boundary. Hopefully in a CRB situation that would get us a little better standing. Glad it didn't come to that.

I was all over the radio letting our pit guys know to get in touch with Race Ops NOW and get then over there cause it was bad.

I can't believe they took down course markings It's almost like they were trying to set us up.

Glad someone had a clear head. Lap two it was clear where you turned left as they had basically barricaded the road off at the new signs.

Last edited by miniwally; 02-22-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:46 AM   #112 (permalink)
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I was all over the radio letting our pit guys know to get in touch with Race Ops NOW and get then over there cause it was bad.
They did

Nobody on Ops side knew the Marines took the signs down, so there was a lot of confusion on this side.

Quote:
I can't believe they took down course markings It's almost like they were trying to set us up.
No kidding! Good for you for having your guys bring it to Ops attention. They sent the Lucas helo to overfly the area for a quick visual right after your Dad radio'ed it in.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Was actually broken competitor vehicles that ended up blocking the sluice.
sure looked like a Jeep with a hardtop and glass. My point is the thats where I ran the first lap and it wasnt blocked off for the second, backing through the sluice was fun.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:00 PM   #114 (permalink)
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It brings chills thinking of my 3rd trip down to KOH. So cool! I think that all of us who are involved in rock sports as either just weekend warriors or competitors are very fortunate to be able to enjoy such a unique and still rather exclusive activity.

I personally had a fantastic time at this year's event. The comradery, the environment, the racing and general excitement buzzing through HammerTown made every morning exciting; waking up and looking forward to what the day would bring (besides dust). Having the opportunity to provide pit support for a few of the teams gave me easy access to neighboring teams and it was awesome being able to just walk over an hang out w/ superstars. They're actually normal human beings (imagine that).

Walking around Hammertown gives you instant perspective as to how large and comprehensive this event has become. I am blown away each year how many vendors have their products out on display, how many families are meandering around, the AMAZING food and beverages available and the services available even to the recreational wheeler that needs a part welded on his/her low budget rig.

I don't know if others feel this way but when I'm at the "King of the Hammers" I feel like a rock star at the best show on earth (even though I'm a 'nobody' merely watching cool people do awesome things w/ amazing offroad vehicles).

The only things that I can think of:

- couldn't read the street signs during the day or night (especially w/ dust). while not the end of the world, I got lost multiple times coming back to our pit tent at night
- food/beverage vendors should be corraled
- would love to have an espresso stand (or multiple stands) w/ baristas that are fast and know exactly what they're doing (I was in heaven having gourment coffee each morning but I got a little tired of waiting 20-30 minutes for an $8 latte and having to explain/make corrections multiple times to ensure that I actually got what I ordered
- Campbell Enterprises didn't bring the swag for 'I'm not just a girl'
- More water for spraying down the common driving areas

I can hardly wait for the 2012 KOH video to both view and add to my growing collection of KOH flicks.

Terry

Last edited by ROKRIG; 02-22-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:05 PM   #115 (permalink)
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sure looked like a Jeep with a hardtop and glass. My point is the thats where I ran the first lap and it wasnt blocked off for the second, backing through the sluice was fun.
Was definitely a competitor vehicle as ultimately they got it fixed and out of there and the sluice was open again. There was a hummer around there that the masterpull guys were using for recovery, but it wasn't what was blocking the sluice. I don't remember how far you got into it before we got you backed up but maybe you saw that and thought it was the problem.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:11 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Not sure if you were there or not, but those of us on staff had no issues telling the difference between the master pull guys and the media.
I was there, and it wasn't hard to tell the difference. My comment was in reference to the "keep the yellow vests out of the shots, and out of the scene in the live coverage" sentiments.


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Originally Posted by TurtleTruck View Post
Based upon what you quoted, you still do not know what a prima facie speed is.

My edjumication of the term was what I found on Google. I took it to mean similar to what you posted, but my quote did not convey that. Thank you for clarifying.

Boone Road was posted as 25 mph. Dave mentioned several times in driver's meetings that the speed limit on the lakebed was 25 mph. He also said that speed inside Hammertown should be 5 mph.

I do not believe that the race drivers were the ones speeding through camp... These people could not maintain a "No Wake" (I mean dust) zone to save their lives. Getting out to the trails, or back to camp for another beer was more important than safety or courtesy to anyone else.
For the record: I hate idling through camp as much as anyone else.


15 MPH might be prudent on the outskirts of the camping area, and 25 MPH out on the open lakebed.

15 max in the "populated area" around town seems more than reasonable.

I swear I saw a 15mph sign right as you got to hammertown... wish I took a pic now...
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #117 (permalink)
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The cost to have them there is so high I doubt you see this.
If they can get them for ATV Mud Nationals with 16,000 People they can be had for Hammer Town.

[QUOTE=Krusty;14039443]the only thing i might mention----

wish all the food vendors were in an area like a 'food court'--- somewhere close to town square and the tron----- coffee/snacks/BBQ/ice cream , etc---- closer to the center of things, cause one bbq joint, which had some of the best, was kinda removed from the flow --- the coffee/chocolate place was in close, was SWAMPED all the time !!!!!

it would be better for them all, and us !
QUOTE]

As a vendor I want them spread out among us to get people to stop and look at product and start a discussion.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:33 PM   #118 (permalink)
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^ x2 on the sign. I know I saw it coming into hammer town.

@ OP:
First off I want to say thank you for an awesome time. I had a great time there and from what little I managed to see it was very well organized. I didn't venture off too far (worried the stock F-250 would get stuck) so I spent my day Friday in front of the jumbo-tron and at Chocolate Thunder. Even w/o having my jeep there to wheel and go see the other spectator areas I had an absolute blast. The vendors were awesome, the coverage was awesome, and the race was awesome. I flew in from CO and then my father-in-law and I drove 5hrs just to be there Thursday afternoon and Friday. It was well worth it. We're already making plans to get my Jeep, his EB, and an RV out there next year. So again, thank you (and all responsible) for a great time.

I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread so I apologize if it's been suggested already. One thing I would suggest is that next time the jumbo-tron (which was absolutely awesome btw) be set up in the spectator area across from the pits. That way those watching would also be able to see the action at the start/finish line and pits.

I hope I didn't say awesome too many times but even this long after the fact I'm still excited. It really was a great trip for me.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Dave I was amazed at the organization of everything from the vendor packets to the Pit areas.

A couple things from a vendors standpoint,
The Jumbo Tron was awesome and let me feel in the loop even though I was not on course.

Is there anyway to move the hot start/finish back to Hammer town for LCQ? Taking it out to CT Was awesome but takes away the customers. We all need the customers walking around, it was really nice last year the way it started by camp, you could go watch a few guys run come get something to eat from a vendor and then go shop. This year we did not see near enough of that during LCQ.

The trash/recycling was much better this year, I think an optional fee for trash service from your booth would be worth while.

Thanks again for a great event!
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:50 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Buy a bigger lens and move back. Its even more of a bummer to be driving in blinding dust and see two yellow vest pop up only 10 feet off the course in an area with massive whoops. I could have easily ran you over and could not have done much about it. Don't be dumb, my in car camera does not want to film you getting smashed.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:22 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I dont see the "blinding dust in those pics." Most look like they were taken a ways off of the course, or at a safe distance with a good lens. But I do see your point!


And.....Why was the UTV awards ceremony over before the race was over!

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Old 02-22-2012, 03:55 PM   #122 (permalink)
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I dont see the "blinding dust in those pics." Most look like they were taken a ways off of the course, or at a safe distance with a good lens. But I do see your point!


And.....Why was the UTV awards ceremony over before the race was over!

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Old 02-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeptahoewhite View Post
I swear I saw a 15mph sign right as you got to hammertown... wish I took a pic now...
I remember a 2.5mph sign and the stated in town or at least vendor area speed limit being 3mph.

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Old 02-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #124 (permalink)
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That might explain why the rules were not followed.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:26 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I dont see the "blinding dust in those pics." Most look like they were taken a ways off of the course, or at a safe distance with a good lens. But I do see your point!


Rob
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