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Old 04-24-2012, 10:22 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mudtruck44 View Post
Right now no one wants to spend money and entry fees are higher than ever. If it weren't for sponsor obligations I'd pay $100 and run exhibition like Tracy and BZ! The sportsman class is great but those guys are never gonna pay the $450 to run pro mod or unlimited. I don't care if lowering entry fees makes the payout less. If that brings more teams out the payout will still be decent. Sure, the possibility of winning lots of money can draw more teams, but there isn't much to be won when there are 3 in a class. I remember an event a few years ago where I won the event, the series, and after contingency I took home around $7500. Right now I can't even get paid contingency with 3 cars. Obviously things have changed, but I'm still coming out and competing unlike most of the other big names. I think the rest of the west events will bring more teams. I hope.
I agree a lot with Jesse. We are new to the sport and have only competed two seasons. The first year with W.E.ROCK and last year with Cal-Neva. We decided to move from W.E.ROCK after the first year for two main reasons.

First the events for Cal-Neva average only 14 hours one-way for us where a couple of the W.E.ROCK events are over 22 hours one-way.

The second is the cost for entry fees in W.E.ROCK were MUCH higher. ($200 a season series fees, $350 annual "to be in the club" fee, and then $300 an event fee, thats $2050 for five (5) events) Cal-Neva for us is $250 an event for $1000 a season...

I'm not bashing W.E.ROCK just simply giving some insight on why we compete where we compete. It will be Cal-Neva for us again this season. (We are planning on one W.E.ROCK event this season - Goldendale WA is only a 5 hour drive for us )

I do have to point out that I don't think as much advertising is being done as some people want us to believe...Just my $.02
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I agree a lot with Jesse. We are new to the sport and have only competed two seasons. The first year with W.E.ROCK and last year with Cal-Neva. We decided to move from W.E.ROCK after the first year for two main reasons.

First the events for Cal-Neva average only 14 hours one-way for us where a couple of the W.E.ROCK events are over 22 hours one-way.

The second is the cost for entry fees in W.E.ROCK were MUCH higher. ($200 a season series fees, $350 annual "to be in the club" fee, and then $300 an event fee, thats $2050 for five (5) events) Cal-Neva for us is $250 an event for $1000 a season...

I'm not bashing W.E.ROCK just simply giving some insight on why we compete where we compete. It will be Cal-Neva for us again this season. (We are planning on one W.E.ROCK event this season - Goldendale WA is only a 5 hour drive for us )

I do have to point out that I don't think as much advertising is being done as some people want us to believe...Just my $.02
Whats Cal-Neva? Don't think I've heard of it.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:02 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Let's list east teams and reasons for not being in TN
Wombat - We all know
Josh Crowe - personal/health
Kyle Bruso - race set up for go fast from week before
Shelby - brother drove car week before at Dirt Riot (motor issues)
Chad McCormick - spotter issues
Tom Campbell - health issues
Alex Vaughn - motor issues
Dude that bought Milsaps buggy - ?
I'd love to make it out but I'm still under-employed so the funds just aren't there to run. I am going to try and get a few sponsors for the Grand Nationals but with the economy like it is it is hard to say.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Here is the video of the action from Dayton....

2012 W.E. Rock Pro Eastern Series Round 1 Dayton, TN - YouTube
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:48 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Whats Cal-Neva? Don't think I've heard of it.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I do have to point out that I don't think as much advertising is being done as some people want us to believe...Just my $.02
You made good points on the distance and fees.

You may be right on this point for some series...but why would anyone lie? Its a lot of work...they are probably exhausted and excited to tell people the efforts that they put in to make it successful. There are multiple factors in WHY People Don't Respond to the call to action to come to the event.

Spectator counts aren't an argument here. Even at the Grand Nationals last year, where it looked like it was super thin, I handed out 4 packaged of posters (100 ea) to kids. The drivers were amazed at the amount of people that they had to sign for. I would have never believed it either if I hadn't been the poster pusher and seen the influx of people that came and went.

If you are racing for the crowds then I can blow a lot of series out of the water for that argument LOL

Rich did a good job of lining out the marketing structure for the Dayton event, and it is pretty much the same for each event. Some have different elements - like Cedar City had a newspaper ad run for 4 days ; Moab had radio ads running all week during ejs. WERock is set up as a partnership with the local land owners where it is as much of a benefit for them to participate in the marketing and fliers as it is for WERock. Dayton does a bitchin job getting into the local communities...others struggle more at it. WERock provides the land owner the fliers and the tools...heck, the land owners know their towns way better than anyone should! WERock attacks the local market from an electronic standpoint...

Each Event Promoter has its budget and set up. The budget for marketing and advertising in any business is the first spent and exhausted because there are so many options. I think you would be surprised if you really looked at it from a business perspective.

Unfortunatly...there is no Monster Truck marketing budgets running around and I know from working with them that even those have been cut significantly.

I wish there was an endless marketing budget...it would make my job a lot easier
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I think another valid point would be that Grand Nationals is now open to anyone who wishes to show up. Good and bad. Before it was open, you were required to show up and run a certain # of events, win a series or be personally invited. Now that its open to whomever, why would someone bust their ass and budget hitting a bunch of events when all the really have to do is show up, have a few good days and go out on top. I mean my sponsors would much rather sponsor the National Champ than an East or West coast series champ. We all know that is just one event and anything can happen. The Series is more impressive to me because it's about consistency, but that's not the point of view most people see. Just another perspective.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:02 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I think another valid point would be that Grand Nationals is now open to anyone who wishes to show up. Good and bad. Before it was open, you were required to show up and run a certain # of events, win a series or be personally invited. Now that its open to whomever, why would someone bust their ass and budget hitting a bunch of events when all the really have to do is show up, have a few good days and go out on top. I mean my sponsors would much rather sponsor the National Champ than an East or West coast series champ. We all know that is just one event and anything can happen. The Series is more impressive to me because it's about consistency, but that's not the point of view most people see. Just another perspective.
Agreed
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:51 PM   #59 (permalink)
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We did not open the Grands Nationals until the numbers started to drop at the events.
The odds of a 1st time competitor winning the grands is hard to imagine, the odds of a past champion coming in just once a year and winning are better but still a long shot - rust does play a factor. Just ask BZ, Tracy, or Carl how it was getting back into the flow.
The cost of the entry is only part of the over all costs and like I stated the entry fee was dropped in mod stock and then the numbers dropped.
We have heard all the reasons that people don't compete over the years, to far, to expensive, to hard, not technical enough, to technical, gas prices up, no sponsors, etc. but I believe it boils down to what interests a person that day or year.
We try to put on a good sound event, a fun event (focus of this year) and an event that is spectator friendly, I like to think we are achieving this right now. Everyone that does not show has a good reason in their own mind, it just sucks for the teams, spectators and volunteers that do show.
We have heard this same thing every year now since about 2006 or 2007.

We will continue doing what we do, for those that always make it and those that come to as many as they can and hope that we are still around when everyone decides to comeback or move up.

Thanks to guys like Jason Feuilly and Josh Jordan, both new teams last year or this year - this is why we continue
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #60 (permalink)
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You can make the Grand Nationals a super exclusive event, but will you feel like you're the best in the country when beat the 2 other guys that show up? If you only allowed teams that ran the whole series we would have had 3 unlimited and 6 pro mods last year. Instead we had 6 and 8.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:08 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I'm not sayin it's good or bad. It is what it is. I'm just that it
may have something to do with smaller numbers. I don't know or I woulda posted the awnser last year. My class (mod-stock) has lower entry fees and easier guidelines for people to meet and it's still dyin. We ran the entire East coast last year. Some events had decent numbers and some did not. Oh well, we plan to run the entire series again this year. If we have some numbers we will compete, if not we will prob run the sportsman class again. We are gonna make the most of it, whatever it is. I was never complaining or bashing. I think that Big, Shelly, Josh, Charlene and the park owners are doin all they can to have big numbers, big spectator crowds and make it as fun as possible. Does it suck that numbers are down? Hell yes it does, is it outta my control? Hell yes it is. Am I gonna be at the next WE Rock? Hell yes I am. For everyone that is bitching and complaining about numbers, spectators, and entry fees , get off your ass, load up ur junk , or lawn chair, and come out to a event. You just might get hooked
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:15 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Hey thanks Carl I appreciate the encouragement. I will be running the series no doubt.....but it would be awesome to get some more competitors in there. Cassada, Big Alan Rich, Wes King, Randy Torbett... where are these rigs today?? Seeya in Hannibal
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:46 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I'm not sayin it's good or bad. It is what it is. I'm just that it
may have something to do with smaller numbers. I don't know or I woulda posted the awnser last year. My class (mod-stock) has lower entry fees and easier guidelines for people to meet and it's still dyin. We ran the entire East coast last year. Some events had decent numbers and some did not. Oh well, we plan to run the entire series again this year. If we have some numbers we will compete, if not we will prob run the sportsman class again. We are gonna make the most of it, whatever it is. I was never complaining or bashing. I think that Big, Shelly, Josh, Charlene and the park owners are doin all they can to have big numbers, big spectator crowds and make it as fun as possible. Does it suck that numbers are down? Hell yes it does, is it outta my control? Hell yes it is. Am I gonna be at the next WE Rock? Hell yes I am. For everyone that is bitching and complaining about numbers, spectators, and entry fees , get off your ass, load up ur junk , or lawn chair, and come out to a event. You just might get hooked
Um...I was there!
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:53 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Crowds have always been a struggle but FYI, motorsports crowd size is down by an average of around 50% across the board from just 9 years ago. Every sanctioning body and promoter is scrambling to figure out a way to get numbers back up, and even eliminates certain venues entirely simply due to the costs of the event being more than they take in with attendance. The economy has taken a toll on many forms of motorsports but the main reason to be involved in the first place is the fun you'll have testing yourself and team against the obstacles. The crowds certainly are important, but at this point, there is not much you can do about their dwindling numbers.

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Old 04-26-2012, 11:35 AM   #66 (permalink)
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We Never miss an event at Dayton. The crowd is always huge and so is the action. Here are the highlights from round two. Big and the entire WEROCK crew, thanks for all the hard work. We will continue to promote this series. See ya at the next one! Maybe we can get Wes there for the next one!
WORLD EXTREME ROCK CRAWLING - Dayton, TN - YouTube
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I'd like to see another ME Rock type event in which the southern rock bouncers could compete with the WE Rock guys. While the hill killers are not as setup for technical crawling, I know ya'll can design a course for both crowds. We all know Wes is in his element either way, but I would still like to see something like that go on down in Dayton!
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #68 (permalink)
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The Toddco race team is addicted to WE ROCK . Last weekend made us want to compete more an start trying to run more comps . I know Todd sponsor a few teams an maybe looking for more to sponsor an help out with entry fees . The job that the we rock crew does is amazing an the crap they have to deal with would drive most people insane . I give the whole werock crew a big [ thank you ] for the comp they put on last weekend . The Toddco team hopes to get to run some of other we rock comps this year if everthing works out for us .
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:21 PM   #69 (permalink)
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We are newer to crawling and debated the Dayton events this year, no surprise, the biggest issue for us was money. We have committed to being at Attica for WE Rock, but in doing the estimates for a couple Dayton events we just couldn't swing it this year. However, with that we decided to budget more cash towards competing next year so that we can do all the events.

As far as entry fees and getting new people into competing, or at least into mod stock. Ive talked to a few people around here trying to get them to try out competing locally at RRock, to get them pushed over the edge a "no pay to play" might work. At least it might get them to try it. One guy Ive talked to also knows that at my first event we might have made it through three sets of cones total over three courses, then broke for the day. He's mentioned not wanting to spend a bunch of cash to go out and look kind of silly, I guess kinda like I did. So maybe giving someone a 2 event free pass would help them to get the jitters out and see if they really want to get into it or not. Of course, this really may only work for teams local to one of the events.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:26 AM   #70 (permalink)
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We are newer to crawling and debated the Dayton events this year, no surprise, the biggest issue for us was money. We have committed to being at Attica for WE Rock, but in doing the estimates for a couple Dayton events we just couldn't swing it this year. However, with that we decided to budget more cash towards competing next year so that we can do all the events.

As far as entry fees and getting new people into competing, or at least into mod stock. Ive talked to a few people around here trying to get them to try out competing locally at RRock, to get them pushed over the edge a "no pay to play" might work. At least it might get them to try it. One guy Ive talked to also knows that at my first event we might have made it through three sets of cones total over three courses, then broke for the day. He's mentioned not wanting to spend a bunch of cash to go out and look kind of silly, I guess kinda like I did. So maybe giving someone a 2 event free pass would help them to get the jitters out and see if they really want to get into it or not. Of course, this really may only work for teams local to one of the events.

There is nothing silly as long as you have fun and learn something each time, I went to my first event in 2007 and ran promod in a leaf sprung trail rig. I was hooked immediately and spent the next four years running over 60000 miles to get to all the events because crawling is just that fun. We went from the back of the pack to the front and not making this season's start is tough but $$ say what you can do. We will be back at it as soon as we can (maybe Attica).

For anyone interested in competing, drop the 100 down on sportsman class and check it out, watch the other classes, talk to the drivers, and see what it takes to compete.
It's worth it to find out what it's all about

Rich, thanks for what you guys do
Hopefully we'll see you soon
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:38 AM   #71 (permalink)
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I also think that once a team gets over the "spotlight fear" it becomes a lot easier and you get more comfortable everytime you compete. When your all strapped in and your spotter runs across the line, you know its go time. Very few better feelings you can get than that. Its an awesome feeling to go out and finish your first course. I dont care who you talk to. If they have competed, they have looked like an idiot. Its gonna happen. So what! When you look around at all the kids in your neighborhood looking like idiots doin stupid shit what do you do? Prob laugh a little and remember some stupid shit you did when you was a a youngen. Think back to the last time you really had a good time, or laugh. You or one of your buddies were doin some stupid shit. Competiton brings out the best and the worst in people. Its testing, sometimes its costly, sometimes its stressful, but its the most fun when you make it fun. When you do all you can do and your good with that. Leave it all on course and learn from it. I think if someone wanted to experience it and see if its something they would like to continue to do, then a free entry ( no trophy, or payback) might be an excellent idea, but on the flip side $100.00 for We-Rock Sportsman, or $150.00 for R-Rock is fairly affordable considering that you get 2-4 people in for free all weekend, get to walk on all the courses, be in the pits with the top guys in the sport, enjoy the comradery of the sport and have a chance of beating a top team and having some proof (hardware) to show all the folks back home. Either way bring em to the race and make sure they bring their rig and some helmets
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:53 AM   #72 (permalink)
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FWIW, It seems like I've spent the same entry fees or even less now to compete in a major national series for the last ten yrs. Pro Rock, Uroc, Erocc, WeRock.

In 2002 I was a retired mud drag racer (and it was bad ass, scream across a pond fast) with a reasonably stout CJ7 and a passion for crawling. I'd been to Farmington, Moab, Montrose, Las Cruces and some midwest events and comps.

I did a bucket list trip and loaded my junk/family for the first 2002 ProRock event in the hammers, why, because I heard some big dogs were going to be there and I thought it would be a blast. Chris Durham, Walker Evans, Jason Paule, Tracy Jordon, Don Robbins, Mike Weaver, Steve Rumore, Joel Randall, Johny G??. There was 14 or so in the top class, some pretty sick buggies.

Yes, diesel was cheaper then. I plunked down some entry fee ($350 per event??), lowered my tire pressure and had an absolute blast racing with and getting to know some of the most notorious drivers/fab guys in the nation. And I came in sixth. In that field, with a CJ7. I was F'n hooked. period. what a rush.

I ended up racing the rest of that series, on the west coast and placed second in points to Jordan, ahead of Paule and Robbins et all. The CJ-7 went on to the supercrawl and we podiumed, three points behind Tracy. My point is, you can have a blast and be competitive with a good trail rig, you can learn a ton and you can make lots of friends. it's not always about numbers, it's about the adventure.

This last event was one of the best ever in Dayton. No rain, consistent courses, more autographs than i ever signed in one season let alone an event, more kids sitting the jeep having their pictures taken. Courses were awesome, some kicked my butt and were spanked by others. The friends I raced with, first class. No drama, no whiners. Judges did a pretty decent job too.

Peace, embrace the nike commercial, just do it. If you can justify one event, do it. If you can swing more, do that Wish I was going to Cedar this weekend!
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:07 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Would love to be back with W.E.ROCK for 2013. . Although the Sportsman class is a great idea I think its aiding in the demise of the true entry level Class. Maybe a restructure is the answer. Make sportsman more like Legends with full fees and have MS the lowest entry fee???? Maybe make the MS courses easier. Hate to say that last one but its all I can think of that might help. If it comes down to that it would force me to graduate to PM. I love the challenge of driving a MS on crazy courses but if your a new team trying to get started its a little extreme.
I'm not sure that my thoughts are right or wrong but I do know that everyone still envolved cares a lot about this sport and Big puts everything his huge heart has to keep it going.
BTW I think the fees are fine. This is the pro level....
Anyway I'm gonna keep hoping for more teams to show. If they don't I'm thinking 2013 might just have to be PM for me. Heck eight years with RROCK now maybe its time for me to graduate anyway
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2012 RROCK....Dates
May 19th 2012
June 1st 2012 (WeRock Weekend too!)
June 30th 2012
September 8th 2012 (Sherock and Brad Marion Memorial RROCK Championship)
2011 W.E.ROCK Hannibal 1st Place
2011 W.E.ROCK Attica 1st Place
2011 RROCK 2nd Place
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