RCAA Mod-Stock Rules - Covered Up

[Jaffer]

RCAA Modified Stock Class Rules ...

5. No bolt in body panels are allowed
6. Complete floors must be maintained
7. No cutting of floor is allowed
2. Tubs/cabs may be cut along the bottom (rocker) area of the vehicle.
3. The back of the tub/cab may be trimmed horizontally to match the rocker height.

Quote:
"Dove-tailing and boat-siding are illegal in RCAA Mod-Stock Class."
- Ranch Pratt- March 2003

*******************************





What's wrong in these pictures?

Nothing, I guess ...

Despite what is written in their rules and confirmed publicly by their president and his minions, apparently in RCAA you can boat-side and dove-tail Mod-Stock bodies to your heart's content, ... then bolt-on foldable corners, add little "rocker guard" just below the door line and hey, just forget about that six inches lopped out of the floor boards and that little ole' trim and tuck under the rear corners.
After all, it's the "Spirit" of the rules that count, eh, Ranch? Isn't that right, Big Rich?
We want to keep them looking just like stock rigs right off the street, don't we ...

[Big Rich]

Originally posted by Jaffer
Isn't that right, Big Rich?
We want to keep them looking just like stock rigs right off the street, don't we ...
[/B]

YES, I DO.....

That rig would not be allowed to run at CalROCS or NARRCA

Period............................................ ...........................

Rich

[TEX]

Originally posted by Big Rich


YES, I DO.....

That rig would not be allowed to run at CalROCS or NARRCA

Period............................................ ...........................in mod-stock class

Rich

Fixed it

[Big Rich]

Thanks Tex, your always there for me

Rich

[Go2Guy]

If you had a clue you'd know the poor guy is just trying to build a new "competitive for the class" rig and that the rule makers seem to be waffling a bit. To Rich's credit he has been pretty consistent but 3 other promoters have been squirming around quite a bit. Has to be frustrating.

[TTURokToy]

Originally posted by jstadrx
that rig just happens to be mine so I have a bit of a clue, and thats just what it is, a competitive for the class rig!!!! dig it???

Apparently you don't have a clue. your rig is breaking the rules and RCAA is letting it slip through.

[ROCKSFORBRAINS]

Originally posted by jstadrx
armchair quarterback,pit racer,wanna-be, any of these sound famaliar you fawkin whiner!!!!

Whoa! Where did that come from? Obviously you've got some major issues here. Is that your rig?

Edit: Yeah I guess it is....I type too slow..

Personally I think Jaffer is making a good point.....If your going to have rules, make them real rules which are always enforced and not changing back and forth all the time. It's silly to have to build a new rig every year because of minor rule changes, or to not be able to compete in multiple organizations because of very minor rule differences. Then have guys like this be able to slip through because of occasional negligence of the rules.

I wouldn't classify what Jaffer says as whining, I think it falls more along the lines as trying to get the powers-that-be swayed towards a more intelligent way to run a class.

The first thing that most people do when deciding to compete in a particular class and org. is look at the rulebook to see if what they have (or can readily build) would be legal to run. Then they see how far they can go with the modificatons that will help them place better (or in this case, reduce body damage, and the expense when fixing it.)

To have rules that are not enforced occasionally, or are constantly changed because of various reasons, or are not very well defined, only serves to create more of this type of discontent amongst the competitors, and organizers. Seems like the easiest way to kill business. After all, without competitors, and their fans, there is no competition.

When a competitor competes in multiple organizations, or venues, and tends to do well in most of them, they tend to develop a fan base that follows them and their results through the entire season regardless of which org. (uroc, rrca, calrocs, etc.) it is. This helps everybody, because like it or not, this getting to be a fan driven sport. Make the rules too diverse between the same class in each sanctioning body and you will drive away all but the most dedicated or well funded teams from competing in multiple venues. IMHO , anyway.
Peter Wells

[XtremeEngineering]

Well said Peter.
I agree 100%

[raceanything]

if we are looking for fairness here lets start with not burning down Bobs jeep based on untruths. The top photo (based on decals & spotter ride) was at a UROC event and you're quoting RCAA rules. This jeep was in the first RCAA event with the body like this but the rule regarding rocker trimming was a sub rule listed under "exceptions" to the floorboard rule. .RCAA sent out a legit rule interpretation that shows (in ink) how they intended this to be, complete with pictures.At the next event and since the rockers have been 100% legal on the #000. The back corners were illegal (by any interpretation) at the first event but made it through tech. Since then RCAA has sent (in ink) a rule that explains how slipping something past the tech guys does not make it legal. Kudos to Bob for having his new corners uncut at the bottom, I can think of 3 others in the class off the top of my head that have there back corners cut up and have received no penalties for it ,one of which is a neighbor of yours Jaffer with
about 5" lopped off of allready questionable bolt on body panels.
That having been said, I'm with you on making the promoters stick to their rules but Bob is not the bad guy.
Care to talk about steering rams which are still illegal according to the INK and being run in this class. With the disregard we have seen from many of these promoters I'm not suprised to here rumors of lawyers being brought in to give an expesive lesson in contract/tort law.

[Big Rich]

With the disregard we have seen from many of these promoters I'm not suprised to here rumors of lawyers being brought in to give an expesive lesson in contract/tort law. [/B][/QUOTE]


Lawyers?

What the hell...

Really makes me want to work hard to find locations, pay out the butt for those locations, to provide a place for guys to compete, lose money on these events, and still pay back 100% of the entry fees...

thanks for nothing (I must be doing this to get rich)

I really hope it does not come to this

[Go2Guy]

Rich, don't let us get you down, and I don't think anyone was taking a shot a Bob's ride, just promoter waffling. Name calling, well.... I'm not going to defend that. Any competitor who asks what they must do to comply and "gets away with something" is just doing there best job to play it on the edge. (Just like we all get favorable calls from the judges at times) We just appreciate it when the promoters stop moving the edge around.

[pure-adrenaline]

The jeep your talking about is team Sisson. The reason these problems started w/ the bodies is that Ranch was contacted before the first event on dovetailing. He said it would be fine so team Sisson went to cutting. It didn't slide through tech it was approved. After that event Big Rich went Ranch hunting and put a stop to rule violation. Rich stepped up to the plate and would not let this rule violation go any farther. So...... Ranch had to side step the problem so he broke another rule to fix his first rule he broke. He now lets team sisson to bolt on sides which I beleive is illegal. But what can you do when the promoter dosen't really know his own rules. Example ask Rich a question about a rule it comes blurting out like second nature and ask Ranch and he has to have a meeting and he'll call you in a few days(weeks).I think these problems could be stopped with telling teams what they can do instead of telling what you can't. Like with the body it could of read

Body....
You can radius fenders and quarters 2" and thats it. For tire clearence.

Real simple body rule. Makes the rules simple that way. Hard to bend a rule that you can measure. I hope next year it gets a little more straight forward on rules becase it makes it easier on everyone.

[Jaffer]

Glad you wrote Jeff, and I also glad you can whip all of these guys without all the chopping and farie wings.

That first pic WAS from UROC earlier this spring and was posted to illustrate just how deeply the boat-siding is. I could just as well posted this pic, again at a UROC event but from just the last weekend which illustrates boat siding just as well.



It is going to be difficult for anyone to say that a flat panel starting at an inch below the door relief and diving toward the frame at that angle is not going to take out a good hunk of a CJ's floorboard. Close to three inches of floorboard on each side from my personal and up close observation.
I'd really like to see that drawing, but if this is not illegal floorboard choping and boat-siding, then they had better re-write the rule book and post that instead of the copy already there.

As for the illegal rams, those with sly grins and guilty of thinking "But gee, they didn't say anything and make me take it off" is as sorry of an excuse there is ... because, like you say, it's in the INK.

My wife made an interesting observation on all this ...
She said, "Around here, if a promotor (of horse raceing) allowed unfair advantage of one over another, they'd call it "FIXED".

[ROCKSFORBRAINS]

Originally posted by Go2Guy
Any competitor who asks what they must do to comply and "gets away with something" is just doing there best job to play it on the edge. (Just like we all get favorable calls from the judges at times) We just appreciate it when the promoters stop moving the edge around.

I applaud those who are innovative enough to find a way to use the rules (or lack therof) to their advantage, and build something that puts their rig ahead of the pack, as long as everyone else has the same opportunity. That kind of competitiveness is what makes this sport interesting. (IROC racing is boring to me.)

These things that are being brought up now need to be cleared up now, so that they might be incorporated into the final printed rules at the end of this season so that people can finish their rigs early enough to make it to the first event next year.

[pure-adrenaline]

They should have the rules in stone for next season in the next couple of months. They all wait too long to make them final. It is soooo hard to build something w/out solid rules.

[Big Rich]

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
They should have the rules in stone for next season in the next couple of months. They all wait too long to make them final. It is soooo hard to build something w/out solid rules.

Trust me when I say, WE WILL HAVE THEM READY EARLY.

We will only need to clarify a bunch of things not rewrite the entire rule book.

I hope

Rich

[frank the tank]

jaffer, you make a good point, but you are always complaining about a series you dont even compete in. Why do you feel you have to bust everyones b---s? If you were out there I could see where you were coming from, but your not! The seasons almost over let it go. NAG NAG NAG

[Jaffer]

Originally posted by frank the tank
jaffer, you make a good point, but you are always complaining about a series you dont even compete in. Why do you feel you have to bust everyones b---s? If you were out there I could see where you were coming from, but your not! The seasons almost over let it go. NAG NAG NAG

We finally started work on my new Mod-Stock rig in January even before the last of the three major promoters finally posted the new season's rules. The deadline set for it's completion was for this month's past RCAA and UROC events in Cedar and Farmington. The driveline and suspension were in place, tub mounted, and cage tacked together.
Then Garrett Sisson came by with his new dove-tail job and insisted Ranch had personally approved the mod for RCAA-Reno. Team Sisson sailed through tech and placed well confirming the mod had been OK'd.
Believing this to be a benificial alteration we tore the cage down, dove-tailed the body and continued construction until Big Rich got word of all this and convinced Ranch reverse himself and declare dove-tailing illegal. Now I have to find a new TJ tub do the extensive body preparation all over, tear the cage down again. etc ...
With the deadline approaching my builder suffers major heart problems and all work was stopped. The deadline and the rest of the season is lost and I'm tearing up my street/trail rig on this seasons final events that it is qualified to run in as I had not prepaired for this turn of events. It's cage and other elements are not RCAA and UROC tech legal and after two rolls in Farmington I'm not too thrilled by the idea of competing again without an improved cage, radiator hoop, 4 point harness, etc.
Ranch reversing himself plus not enforced his own rules caused this mess and the delay in progress of several weeks and at the cost of several thousand dollars. The new rig would have been done and you probably wouldn't be listening to me bitch.
I hope to compete again shortly at Pro-ROCKS - Avalanche, in the new Super-Stock class at SuperCrawl in September and at RCAA's last event here in October.
The new chassis, it's new stock tub and it's dove-tailed verson tub are now moth balled waiting for the new Super-Stock rules to be finalized and for my builder, Jim Peterson, to recover.
Now you know why this is such a sore subject ...
It burns my butt to see now illegal dove-tails covered with farie wings and illegal from the get-go boat-sides and rock guards mounted mid-rocker in RCAA Mod-Stock class. It would have been nice to have narrowed tail sections just for up keep's sake, the rig's profiles being basically unaltered. But now we are seeing more chop jobs along with their weird cover-ups ... looking something way different than what that class was intended for.

[frank the tank]

jaffer, the bottom line is that you could be doing the same thing as all these guys, which is "rung what you brung." Dont be afraid to push the envelope.The rules are like the vehicles, always changing. Look at how much has changed in the last couple of years. Lastly, "If it doesn't work- make it work" ........everyone else has.

[Jeff Knoll]

jaffer, the bottom line is that you could be doing the same thing as all these guys, which is "rung what you brung." Dont be afraid to push the envelope.The rules are like the vehicles, always changing. Look at how much has changed in the last couple of years. Lastly, "If it doesn't work- make it work" ........everyone else has

$$$$ don't grow on trees. Frankly I agree with jaffer. I have been watching and waiting for the final word on this before I start a build for the class as well. Whats it gonna be?

I think that every one just wants a set in stone set of rules that they can build for and wont change mid season. Whats so hard about that?

[Tin Bender]

Originally posted by Big Rich
With the disregard we have seen from many of these promoters I'm not suprised to here rumors of lawyers being brought in to give an expesive lesson in contract/tort law.

Really makes me want to work hard to find locations, pay out the butt for those locations, to provide a place for guys to compete, lose money on these events, and still pay back 100% of the entry fees...

thanks for nothing (I must be doing this to get rich)

I really hope it does not come to this [/B][/QUOTE]



?????? Then what do you do for a living???????
I may be take'n it a little harsh, But if your "pay'n out the butt" why are you doing it??? I don't bitch about my JOB, why are you?

[Jaffer]

Originally posted by frank the tank
jaffer, the bottom line is that you could be doing the same thing as all these guys, which is "rung what you brung." Dont be afraid to push the envelope.The rules are like the vehicles, always changing.

That is the TRUTH, Frank.
There is still a lot of jimmying one can do and still comply to the rules, despite the recently added "you can't do it unless we say so" clause.
Jim still has a few tricks up his sleeve and bets are the tables will turn when the new rig is unveiled.

[TEX]

Originally posted by Tin Bender



?????? Then what do you do for a living???????
I may be take'n it a little harsh, But if your "pay'n out the butt" why are you doing it??? I don't bitch about my JOB, why are you?

Can't speak for Rich, but as a fellow promoter I know where he's coming from. I love what I do & am working my tail off in the hope that someday it may be all that I do & I can give up my "day job". But, at the same time, it's disheartening when the people who most benefit from your efforts spend all their time trying to make your life difficult (not a situation I currently find myself in, but I've seen it happen to others, usually unfairly). To put it quite bluntly, some fawkin' appreciation might be in order


TEX

[raceanything]

Do what is RIGHT and you dont have to worry about ending up in court. From what I know Rich has done it right, most likely at significant cost to himself. Others seem to let anything through tech to get another entry fee in their pocket, not realizing they are losing the entry of the dozens of "jaffers" out there wanting to compete but wont until they can build and bring a rig to a level playing field.

I do blame the promoters for not inforcing the rules , but, the teams sould be resposible for bringing a legal rig.

Rule says no ram-dont bring one
Rule says no cutting inner fender well-find a way to dove tail w/o cutting or dont dove tail
Rule says no bolt on panels-change it back(you were wrong to change it in the fiirst place)
Rule says you cant cut the back up higher than the rocker- dont

Rule says I cant run 38"s and have 3 spotters I'm not going to call Ranch and ask if I can. Even if he SAYS I can its not legal until he puts it in INK and everyone concernd gets a copy.

Can you see my frustration?

[Big Rich]

Originally posted by Tin Bender

?????? Then what do you do for a living???????
I may be take'n it a little harsh, But if your "pay'n out the butt" why are you doing it??? I don't bitch about my JOB, why are you?

I'm not complaining, you mistake my sarcaism for something it's not.

I love doing this, yes it's a bitch, but every job I've had that was worth keeping was a bitch...

I'm glad you like your job, it makes the long day worth it, correct?

I was just implying that I'd hate to be pulled into court over rules that have been written, at the begining of a youg sport, that is constantly evolving.

Rich