UROC's super stock class

[pure-adrenaline]

what does everyone think of these rules????? I think the fender cutting is too vague and changing suspension attachment locations is too much to allow. It defeats the purpose for the aftermarket companies again. Everyone will be running custom long arms on their TJ's.

[Jaffer]

I spoke with Craig Stump about these new rules last month when deciding how to proceed with my project - now in mothballs due in part to the RCAA Mod-Stock fiasco.
He admitted the rules are vague, and partly because he is also expecting input from would-be competitiors to see what they wanted. It is obvious that long arms or any similar 'kit' will be allowed.
He also admitted that the "Frame modifications are not allowed, including cutting holes in the frame for custom brackets." clause was a direct result of protests to modifications of Jim Peterson built Legends Class 'She-J'. Jim had moved the rear lower links to a cut-out in the frame's bottom to lessen bracket hang-up at he same time he re-worked the rear of Amy's frame to quell other prostesters the about Legends 'no frame mod between axels' rule.
Craig agreed that no matter how well you word a rule set, someone like Jim will think up a cool mod to push the edge.
The new Super Stock "Frame modifications are not allowed." clause IS extremely broad and when I asked if this included cross members and specifically a TJ's flat rear shock mount member
he said he's have to see in person or photos of any variations before making a ruling.
I like the "Full recognizable bodies..." and the "All flooring and firewalls must be fully intact." clauses as they should be enough, if enforced, to dis-allow the dove-tailing and deep boat-siding that has embroiled UROC's Mod-Stock class.

[landusepbb]

IMO competition crawling needs to get back to stuff like you saw in this era:



Things were so much simpler, and cheaper!

[pure-adrenaline]

I think those jeeps went out after the first event.......

[tubehead]

I watch the video of the 99' event and look at the evlution(sp?) since then. I think it would be cool to build somethng basic, by todays standards, and be able to compete against other similar rigs. I really enjoy the capability of the new rig but also look back and had fun wheelin' with "old school" stuff.

[Brawler]

I just asked a question about my rig in comparison to the super stock rules. Only thing i can think of that limits me is i had to outboard the front spring hangers to allow the d60. I also have holes cut in the floor in the rear to allow for the shock mounts. The 35 gall. fuel cell fits through the floor and the frame was notched flat to allow the tank to sit flat. Do these mods seem like they would tell me no?

[Rock Cat]

I definitely think long arm kits should not be allowed. They should have full bodies - no cutting for shocks through the body and frame mounts should not be moved from their factory location. If you have or want any of these things on your vehicle, then you can still compete in the Legends Class. Stock means Stock!

[pure-adrenaline]

it should be a class that companies can sell and promote products. All lifts should be purchased off the shelf no custom suspensions.

[RedBullJeep]

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
it should be a class that companies can sell and promote products. All lifts should be purchased off the shelf no custom suspensions.

You are looking in an important direction because let's face it, the companies that can promote their products in competition are helping themselves as well as us...if they have a product that sells well, we should be able to use it (thinking ATLAS here)...but, what do you do in this case?...I built my own shackle reversal...nobody built one like I wanted, so I did it myself...is it better than other shackle reversals for competition...NO WAY, built for trail, street driving, and towing...not competiton. Still, it's not offered by manufacturers. I am at a disadvantage running something I built for a different purpose, but if there was a manufacturer limitation, I couldn't run. Also, what would keep manufacturers from building something totally custom for one person?
I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here as I really like your idea...I'm just trying to find a way to integrate it fairly...keep your mind running and lets figure this out...

[pure-adrenaline]

well it's like the compounds on tires. Off the shelf in RRCA or you can't run. My thought was on coil suspension. My coil suspension on my rig would pass for stock. I use a 4" TJ coil. Would it be fair to have my suspension against something off the shelf? We do the same thing to stock TJ's all the time. Sick travel. But the only thing we buy are the coils. $200 bucks and no benefit for after market companies. We build our own arms. If someone wants sick travel and custom suspension they need to step up to the legend class. I would like to see a difference in rigs instead of asking a guy what class he is in. Right now really the only difference is tire size and no tube chassis. I know there are a lot of weekend worriors out there that can bolt on kits and don't have the money to pay someone like me to custom build their suspension. The little money savings may let guys compete. Because these guys that go into the stock class because they think it will be cheaper have a rude awakaning. They'll need all the savings they can get.

[Jeff Knoll]

3. CLASSES

STOCK

A. Stock is limited to vehicles that retain their complete stock frame assembly, wheelbase, axle model & width, transmission, transfer case and motor. Tire size is limited to 35” as measured from the ground to the top of the tire at the center most portion of the tire. Stock suspension form must be retained.

B. Frame: Complete stock frame assembly must be retained.

Ie: Gusseting, Boxing, Strengthening, and Increased Bracing are allowed. Shortening, Lengthening and Narrowing is Prohibited.

C. Wheelbase: Stock vehicle wheelbase must be retained as per manufacturers specs.

D. Axle Assembly: Stock axle width & model must be retained. Manufacturer must have offered axle as stock or option for the year vehicle you are running. After market or other carriers, axle shafts, differential covers, ring and pinions, and brake assemblies are allowed. Gussets, Trusses’ and strengthening of assembly are allowed. Brakes must be in good working condition.

E. Motor: Manufacturers stock or optional engine must be retained. Internal and Exterior modifications are allowed.

Ie: After market aspiration or exhaust. Engines from different models yet same make is prohibited. Must be available from the factory with the motor. Ie: CJ7 with 4o1, NOT LEGAL.

F. Transmission: Manufacturer must offer model factory in your make, model and year. Aftermarket clutch is approved.

G. Transfer Case: Manufacturer must offer model from factory in your make, model and year, after market gear set is legal, after market drive shaft is legal.

H. Tires: Tire Size is limited to 35” as measured with the use of a gauge with a specific distance between the spreaders and slide it down over the tire horizontally. DOT approved, no grooving or siping.

I. Suspension: Manufacturer method of suspension must be retained.

Ie: Leaf springs front and back. Spring over is legal. Lift kits off the shelf are approved. Stock spring swaps form other makes and models are approved. After market shackles are approved. After market forward control arms off the shelf and trailing arms are approved. Multi and Longer shocks are approved. Traction Bars are approved.

ABSOLUTELY NO Hi-bred suspension modifications. Ie: Quarterlyptic. Conversions from 3 link to 4 link are prohibited. After market conversions from leaf springs to coil are prohibited.

J. Bodies: Stock body appearance must be retained. Ie: if it is a duck, it must look like a duck.

Factory removable hard tops, doors, windshields, side glass, and rear glass may be removed for the purpose of safety.

· Permanently attached roofs must be retained. Minor fender and body trimming are approved as not to change vehicle appearance.

· Hoods must be retained

No vehicle shall have sharp edges or unfinished metal, which is deemed unsafe.

K. Burden of Proof is the responsibility of the participant in all matters concerning class eligibility. Official’s decisions are final.

L. All vehicles in this class must be street legal, registered and insured





Here is my Idea of stock. I have offered this class for 5 comps at CRCA. We had no trouble filling the class.

If ya wanna see guys work the rules this is the best way to see who is sharp. I will be running a car that fits this class at the Calrocs event in Lucerne next Sept.

[pure-adrenaline]

looks like good rules but I would hate to see guys stuck w/ stock axles. Breakage is no fun and stock just can't hang in any class.

[RedBullJeep]

If you look at the attendance for CRCA, there are very few "Stock" vehicles compared to Mod-stock vehicles...limit things that much and you really are limiting the competition. The competitors in the larger events would not currently be interested in a class like that...there were attempts at a class like that at a couple of events and they had 1 or 2 rigs show up...complete failure.
I really like CalRocs class structure using the 3 classes and decent restrictions. I really wish the other comps would do the same.

Along the lines of the changes coming in Stock-mod...going with the flow instead of fighting it...today I talked to Matt from west texas offroad about getting a redneck ram setup for the RedBull CJ...that will happen before RCAA Women's Nats...I'm also looking heavilly into dovetailing if the events don't tell me they WON'T allow it next year. I'd rather NOT do it, but need to keep up with the Joneses (and Sissons) if it won't be illegal. Man, this shit is gettin expensive to do!

[Jeff Knoll]

I can see how you would think that the stock axles would not hold up in any comp. I would agree with you in the case of most events, but our course was built for that class. As far as I know we only had 1 broken axle and the driver did it in the 1st 5 feet. She later said she thought she might have broke it in New Mexico the month before.
I guess we will find out in Sept how many stock 30 axles you will break running a Calrocs comp as that is what I plan on running.
I will admit I have a trashcan full of them for replacement. Since they are considered junk they all came free. Point of my experiment is that it all breaks.. but I figure I could change a shaft after every run and still be out having a good time at a fraction of the cost of a 60.
I think that a class like our stock gave a lot of people the chance to see if it was what they wanted to do before a full on commitment. What we don't need is a ledgends class with only a 1" tire size difference.

Dustin lets not forget that Our stock class always had more drivers then Our pro class.

Not pimping or spammin here just an opinion of a guy who would like to compete at an affordable level. Thanks for the chance to share.


Edit; there were less stock drivers because we limited them due to time issues at a one day event. Dustin I agree the current drivers most likely wont be interested. The sport must continue to bring in new drivers or it will fade away. A large group of the original ARCA line up is no longer participating. what this class might do is bring in new blood.
Is that not the idea?

[RedBullJeep]

Originally posted by ffej

Edit; there were less stock drivers because we limited them due to time issues at a one day event. Dustin I agree the current drivers most likely wont be interested. The sport must continue to bring in new drivers or it will fade away. A large group of the original ARCA line up is no longer participating. what this class might do is bring in new blood.
Is that not the idea?

Not bashing ya Jeff as I love the CRCA events and will continue to come and play there when I can, but let's face it...90% of modern trail rigs wouldn't quailfy under the CRCA stock guidelines...so no, you won't pull in new blood with that. Is it fun to watch? In the CRCA events, YESSSSS! But for the major events, NOOOO...there's way too much going on at the big-boy's course.

[Jeff Knoll]

I did not take it as a bash. (I always write this way. I like a good debate)
There is already too much going on it does not matter what they add. There is not enough time in the day to see it all right now.
I don't mean to sound like this is the only way. I just feel that if You are gonna call it super stock ummmmmm . Shoe fits?

I have no clue what Uroc wants to get out of adding this class so I won't assume I do. But The little sponsor help I got ALL wanted the prizes in the stock class. They did not care about the pro class and were not as interested in our mods.( which car is running Our products?)
Furthermore I have sand bagged this board nearly every day for 2 years and at least every other month I read about the jeep theory in the mod stock class. where are the Toyotas where are the sammies its too much money They should do this they should do that.
I have already built a car that bends the rules for my class and yes its a jeep because thats what I like.( I'm way under $10,000)
But what about an 85 toyota shortbed with transfercase gears ARBs fix the steering bolt on some 35's and go out and play hard for about $5000 including the car.
Yes you are right most trail vehicles can't qualify. But I know of a guy that was willing to swap in a 35 just to have a good time. I also know of a Toyota dealer that was building a car just for a "stock class.

Dustin If you build it they will come! Big events maybe not yet. but the smaller ones Yes.
How do we see which manufacture is the best, when the drivers are all running the same drivetrain.
I'm just thinking out side the box and viewing this sport on a grander scale. This guy that use to dive off rocks always reminds us about that. Oh yea it was you

Thanks I'm out!

[MoabZJ]

What if you don't have a frame? I would compete in Legends if I was allowed, however, even though my rig poses zero threat to the competitive rigs, I would still be ratted out for "rule" violations. I cut my unibody a foot in front of my rear axle and replaced it with tube--like I have an advantage

I want to compete because it woudl be fun, but if I have to run unlimited and destroy my rig in the process, then it isn't worth it to me.

Cody

[Brawler]

The title was in reguards to super stock, not stock. That's why i asked what i asked. My body and frame are all scout, no dove tailing no frame mods ( other that the notch to fit the fuel cell) I just want to know if it would be possible to compete in this class. I'd get spanked in the unlimited. And my wheeling skills aren't good enough to compete with these guys.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally posted by ffej

E. Motor: Manufacturers stock or optional engine must be retained. Internal and Exterior modifications are allowed.

Ie: After market aspiration or exhaust. Engines from different models yet same make is prohibited. Must be available from the factory with the motor. Ie: CJ7 with 4o1, NOT LEGAL.

Couldn't there be a loophole here if "internal" motor modifications are allowed? Doesn't the 304 share the same block as the 401, so you actually could run a 401 in a CJ7?

The fender trimming sounds a little vague too, I could see guys pushing that one.

Sounds like a cool class, I agree that a Toyota pickup could be competitive in this class for pretty cheap. As for the axles, since internal mods are allowed I think that you could build them to survive 35" tires. Isn't Jason Bunch running a D30 in the front? I know that he was at one time.

[Jeff Knoll]

Couldn't there be a loophole here if "internal" motor modifications are allowed? Doesn't the 304 share the same block as the 401, so you actually could run a 401 in a CJ7?

I love loop holes but the block is stamped on the pass side with the disp. size. But you could build it as far as you want. A 401 wont really be an advantage over a 304 IMO.

The fender trimming sounds a little vague too, I could see guys pushing that one.

They have

Sounds like a cool class, I agree that a Toyota pickup could be competitive in this class for pretty cheap. As for the axles, since internal mods are allowed I think that you could build them to survive 35" tires. Isn't Jason Bunch running a D30 in the front? I know that he was at one time.

I think you are right.

[horse_with_no_name]

Jeff, does 2 birfields count when i dropped the drive shaft in HELLS KITCHEN last year?
HORSE_WITH_NO_NAME