Campbell vrs Gordon... KOH

[Beat95YJ]

Originally Posted by maxyedor

Robby is on the right track to break the curse. He's the first big name to actually sack up and buy a car. It's tough to win while racing a poorly prepped POS, when you're used to full tear-down preps you drive differently than a guy who doesn't remember how old his heim joints are and makes it a habit to reuse stovers.

I have said it before, no current koh team preps like a dezert racer. That's why the dnf rate is so high. I want to see what a team with that dedication level will do.

[sjustice64]

Originally Posted by 513

Erik Miller FTW, I want to see someone from the east coast or the no coast win it

Originally Posted by TiTRD

Who I'm pulling for also. He's a good dude with a lot of talent.

Originally Posted by broncolou

Miller's year to shine!!!!'

Originally Posted by Irongrave

I'd put my money on Miller Was knocking on the door 2 years ago and had bad luck last year He's sitting right between them after tonight IIRC.

winner winner chicken dinner

[g-wizz]

i got to watch robby pass 2 cars before he blew the motor, which i guess was before race mile 30. if that thing was hurt you sure couldnt tell cause he was hauling ASS. side ways through bushes, off the path, it was everything i expected it to be.

someone make him drive that yota that was taking up the rear. for one it would give everyone a chance cause he would probably drive just as fast in the desert as any "fast" rock rig, and two i really doubt he will be able to break a stock 22r. but then again he is "that guy" when it comes to statements like that so who knows.

[tjmark]

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ

I have said it before, no current koh team preps like a dezert racer. That's why the dnf rate is so high. I want to see what a team with that dedication level will do.

You mention no KOH team..

I know a few that prep like High $$ racers..

Full tear down Pre race..

[bushauler]

Originally Posted by tjmark

You mention no KOH team..

I know a few that prep like High $$ racers..

Full tear down Pre race..

i think people are catching on to the importance of prep. there were a lot of cars getting torn down this week even on the lakebed. i think a race like koh will always have a lot of dnf's. to many variables and unkowns to plan for with a race course like this

[binderbound]

Originally Posted by bushauler

i think people are catching on to the importance of prep. there were a lot of cars getting torn down this week even on the lakebed.

x2

I went last year and couldnt believe how many rusty joints, leaky axles/trans/engines, and questionable equipment I saw. I think prep will catch on eventually.....and not running your race car that hard before the race (more prerunner type rigs being brought out)

[BrassMunkey4]

Originally Posted by tjmark

You mention no KOH team..

I know a few that prep like High $$ racers..

Full tear down Pre race..

http://www.millerrockracing.com/foru....php?f=2&t=132
Here is our prep thread. It gives you a general idea of what went into the prep. Every year before koh it gets torn down to a bare chasis and everything gets rebuilt or replaced. Then it is maintained throughout the year, east coast mud takes a huge toll on everything.

[maxyedor]

Originally Posted by bushauler

i think people are catching on to the importance of prep. there were a lot of cars getting torn down this week even on the lakebed. i think a race like koh will always have a lot of dnf's. to many variables and unkowns to plan for with a race course like this

It is catching on for sure. Same thing with shocks. The first official year people ran whatever they normally ran, the second year they bolted bypasses on and they were "faster than any TT", then people started realizing that un-tuned shocks don't work and lakebed speeds don't count.

As far as I'm aware, nobody preps the way desert guys do, including Robby. They all prerun in their race-cars. They hit the lakebed with a fresh prep, but by the time most hit the start-line, they have a well used vehicle.

[desertfabmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ

I have said it before, no current koh team preps like a dezert racer. That's why the dnf rate is so high. I want to see what a team with that dedication level will do.

This statement is not true at all... There are teams that completly teardown and go through everything...

Not ALL Desert Racers do this..

Dedication Level....

[66CJdean]

Originally Posted by maxyedor

Robby is on the right track to break the curse. He's the first big name to actually sack up and buy a car. It's tough to win while racing a poorly prepped POS, when you're used to full tear-down preps you drive differently than a guy who doesn't remember how old his heim joints are and makes it a habit to reuse stovers.

That said, the curse isn't really a curse. Casey Currie has done very well and while he's done some rock crawling before he got into KOH, he was definitely a desert racer.


As far as the motor, "weak" is a worthless description. Maybe it was just down on power, but if he called it at MM14, My guess is he knew the end was near and decided not to become a trail-plug or make his recover guys work harder than they have to.

So in your opinion the Torchmate car is a porly prepped POS. That is down right ofensive no matter who you are. Have you looked at this car or met anyone who built it or helped build it. F'ing Robby Gordon bought it so that telles you plenty about it and I bet the guys who did prep the car would love a good shot at that web wheeling nut sack of yours. Just because you are entitled to an opinion does not mean you are Qualified to have it!
Just sayin

[balduccibrosracing]

Originally Posted by maxyedor

It is catching on for sure. Same thing with shocks. The first official year people ran whatever they normally ran, the second year they bolted bypasses on and they were "faster than any TT", then people started realizing that un-tuned shocks don't work and lakebed speeds don't count.

As far as I'm aware, nobody preps the way desert guys do, including Robby. They all prerun in their race-cars. They hit the lakebed with a fresh prep, but by the time most hit the start-line, they have a well used vehicle.

Miller Motorsports did about 95% of the prerunning in a different buggy we brought out as a prerunner and the RZR. The only prerunning done in the race car was one pass through spooners and outer limits. We also did a few short runs for diff break in, and making sure our steering and shocks were perfect.
After that it was torn down the night before the race to replace heims, diffs, almost all fluids etc. etc. We also have a competent crew that takes care of the car. Erik got 8 hours of sleep before the race instead of being awake making sure we did things right. We have spent a ton of time studying how desert racing and short course race teams prep. The results have spoken for themselves not only at KOH but also at the stampede. Luck was on our side for sure, but we did our homework as much as any other team and it paid off.
There was also a lot of talk about how beat the car was at the finish line. It certainly didn't look good, but the only problem with the car was the steering pump. We have a spare mounted on the car with a complete tool kit for doing the swap mounted right near the pump. It takes about 15 minutes to swap and bleed and the car could have run a few more laps.

Sorry for the hijack, just wanted to point out how the top teams in U4 are doing things.

[maxyedor]

Originally Posted by 66CJdean

[b]So in your opinion the Torchmate car is a porly prepped POS.

You read my post entirely wrong. I meant that you can't win by racing somebody else's headache. Robby did it right by putting his money where his mouth was and buying the car, his car, his problem. Previous TT drivers have been on the "arrive and drive" program, and it's fucked them over. Robby didn't have the time to prep it the way he preps the TT, but the ex-Torchmate car is one of the few really well thought out cars in the field. Honestly, it wasn't prepped to "TT" standards for this race, because part of prepping a TT is sending the motor out for a prep and not running a stock LS, but that's the downside to buying a new car 2 weeks before a race, you just don't have time to sort it all out. If he hadn't ejected a wheel prerunning, he'd have had time to throw a new motor in there and assuming the hubs held up for the duration of the race, the story would be entirely different.

I was commenting about Pistola more than anybody. People give him a lot of shit (90% is well deserved and earned), but failing at KOH is not entirely his fault IMHO. He showed up and raced somebody else's buggy. He had no input on how the car was prepped and he went down in flames. His skill as a driver played a very miniscule part in the grand scheme of things. IIRC Rob Mac had similar issues with the BTF car.

As a driver in a car that you have had no oversight while prepping, you have 2 options, throttle back or pin it and pray. Winning drivers don't have throttle back in their vocabulary, and going fast will always show the flaws. RG proved that. Torchmate's car was fine for what Robby put it through in the time he was able to race, but he found the car's weakness, and he found it quickly.

Give RG ample time to get to know the car, and it's weak and it's strong points and it's a whole different ball game.

Being a "poorly prepped POS" also has very little to do with the original build. I've chased for many Jimco/Savage/Geiser/Tatum/HMS/Kreger/RPS etc 1 cars and TTs that started life as race winning cars/trucks and ended up being poorly prepped POSs.

[banned4life]

how many of you knuckleheads think that all of the top 5 to 10 guys in rockcrawling would SUCK driving a new GEISER TT????? guess what, none would....with 50 miles of practice they would do well....would they win right away? probably not...but they would do well.......if you can drive, you can drive....the problem with most of the real desert guys, (casey curry not included as i have NEVER seen him at a desert race , EVER) that have come to try KOH is they are in "loaner" rigs that are NOT capable of winning.....or even finishing.....if robby wants to win KOH, he has the jingle and will be a force in the future......btw, i thought roger norman bought a rig, no? where was he?

[Xjcrawler736]

Originally Posted by balduccibrosracing

Sorry for the hijack, just wanted to point out how the top teams in U4 are doing things.

As soon as I saw the post above, I instantly thought of the Miller team. I know they spend a crazy amount of time going through their car. And you can see the results in the races they run.


As for Robby's DNF, I am going to guess that motor was seeing a lot of redline in 2nd gear under load trying to keep speed. The Torchmate team stated that 3rd gear was hardly usable with the power that motor had, so Robby was going to be using 2nd most of the time.

[fuggy]

Originally Posted by banned4life

how many of you knuckleheads think that all of the top 5 to 10 guys in rockcrawling would SUCK driving a new GEISER TT????? guess what, none would....with 50 miles of practice they would do well....would they win right away? probably not...but they would do well.......if you can drive, you can drive....

Dropping the top rock crawlers in a proven desert racer....yes they will do well racing in the desert.

Dropping the top desert racers in a proven rock crawler....they will struggle racing in the rocks.

Just admitt it Pete, Rock Donkey's have more talent and can do it better with less.

[youngguns4x4]

i think he just admited it. You've been in a gieser truck for along time and......won one race in texas?

[Roc Doc]

Originally Posted by banned4life

how many of you knuckleheads think that all of the top 5 to 10 guys in rockcrawling would SUCK driving a new GEISER TT????? guess what, none would....with 50 miles of practice they would do well....would they win right away? probably not...but they would do well.......if you can drive, you can drive....the problem with most of the real desert guys, (casey curry not included as i have NEVER seen him at a desert race , EVER) that have come to try KOH is they are in "loaner" rigs that are NOT capable of winning.....or even finishing.....if robby wants to win KOH, he has the jingle and will be a force in the future......btw, i thought roger norman bought a rig, no? where was he?

Aw fuck. Gotta agree on all accounts.

And as far as the KOH teams not prepping like a TT team, that's more than 100% correct. Until someone steps in with the really big coin , it's not going to happen. Team TTF prepped and tuned the 554 and 4438 as best as could be done, including safety wire on key components, spares, communications, good pit strategy, 100% pre-running with alternative cars, and still we were scrambling to keep the cars in contention. With a TT budget then there would be multiple spares in every pit, and that would eliminate having to send a guy on a CR450x at warp speed back to the PSC pits to have a PS pump rebuilt, or having a kid in a Rhino shuttling blowed up tires back to the Goodyear truck for replacements. It's just the money that's the limiting factor at this point.

People think that the top KOH teams are made of money, and nothing could be further from the truth. The reason the cars are as fast as they are is entirely due to sweat equity, and fortitude...and a big chunk of money (for the working man anyway).

[BigWoodyWag]

Pistol is right a lot.

[Samco Fab]

We are the shop that had the TTB car, it was not going to KOH, and was in the process of being torn down for a prep, it was not prepped.

We threw her back together, and all of the issues that it had were known potential problems areas that were on the to do list, but a week is not enough time to order parts and make upgrades.

If they take a year to upgrade some parts, and give it a good prep, that will be a team to be reckoned with.

Prep in the desert or in the rocks is a vague statement, that could be a 3 hour or a 300 hour process. In the desert, I would say that 120 hours prep per race is the average for most teams.

[hurleygo3]

Shit. I bet the motor Robby drops in this car will cost more than most of the rigs that ran in KOH. The trans will cost more than my rig

[Roc Doc]

Originally Posted by hurleygo3

Shit. I bet the motor Robby drops in this car will cost more than most of the rigs that ran in KOH. The trans will cost more than my rig

According to Lance, Robby wanted to drop in a LS7 the week of the race, but then the car wouldn't have enough cooling capacity, etc., etc., etc..

[retardatwork]

Originally Posted by Roc Doc

According to Lance, Robby wanted to drop in a LS7 the week of the race, but then the car wouldn't have enough cooling capacity, etc., etc., etc..

I was under the impression that they did replace the motor the night before. Also some teams replaced rod ends before pre running,qualifying,and the race.

[hybrid-theory]

Originally Posted by retardatwork

I was under the impression that they did replace the motor the night before. Also some teams replaced rod ends before pre running,qualifying,and the race.

His crew said they couldn't change out motors because of not having a computer to go with it. Or else they probably would have. We were pitted next to his crew when the call came in that they blew the motor.. The guys were disappointed but knew it was going to happen.

It will be safe to say that if RG comes back next year, it will be with a vengeance!!

[binderbound]

Race day video of RG.

Also good video of ASR and Campbell on CT.

The Carnage at Hammer Town (2012 King of the Hammers) - YouTube