4 link more up or down travel?

[gm500hprat]

I'm building a buggy out of my old pickup I purchased a tube chassis from hendrix motorsports. Its going to be for recreation only. Most of what it will see is glamis and johnsonvalley. I am 4 linking the rear and in time the front. I want to be able to have fun on the high speed stuff. Im not sure if I need more up travel then down or vise-versa. Im only doing the rear for now, Im planning on about 12-14in of travel. Im using TJ coils that John Currie gave to me and plan on running a good remote reservoir shock like sway-away or king. I was also planning on running a double triangulation.Any opinions on any of my ideas would be much appreciated, and reasons why I should/shouldnt do this or that.

What Im building will look similiar to this.

[cjovertj]

w/ 14" travel for high speed, i would angle the shocks to get more travel then run 10 up 7-8 down

also if you aren't doing any rockcrawling i would seriously consider a 2-link or trailing arm set up for the rear. it is a super simple design and it doesn't allow alot of flex so you dont need a sway bar and i think most trophy trucks run this set up.
you can also set them up for crazy amonts of travel by mounting the shocks/ springs on the control arms

[gm500hprat]

Thanks. Do you have any pics or know of any build-ups of the 2 link or trailing arm setup.

Also what way should I angle the shock, forward?

I will not be doing any rockcrawling, mostly duning

[mobil1syn]

shock valving ... if you aint valved right your wasting your money on coilovers and trying to run fast if you dont spend the time valving.

[SCOOTER/X]

Originally Posted by gm500hprat

Thanks. Do you have any pics or know of any build-ups of the 2 link or trailing arm setup.

I too would like to see this "2" link you speak of.....

[TotalImmortal]

Originally Posted by cjovertj

also if you aren't doing any rockcrawling i would seriously consider a 2-link or trailing arm set up for the rear. it is a super simple design and it doesn't allow alot of flex so you dont need a sway bar and i think most trophy trucks run this set up.

first rule of thumb....dont listen to this guy

[TeenyCAR]

Pretty sure nearly every TT runs either a standard 4 link or a wishbone style 3link. Here's an example of an older Roby Gordon TT.

[cjovertj]

Originally Posted by TeenyCAR

Pretty sure nearly every TT runs either a standard 4 link or a wishbone style 3link. Here's an example of an older Roby Gordon TT.

your probably right about tts using a wishbone setup but i have seen the 2link on some straight axle dune buggys and i know that rockkrawlers desert race lift uses it

heres a link
http://www.rockkrawler.com/

[WOBBLEWAGON]

OOO OOOOO i WANT TO SEE A "2" LINK USED FOR RACING IN TROPHY TRUCKS..... HAHA!!! A SWING ARM STYLE WOULD HAVE NO ARTICULATION SIDE TO SIDE AND IF IT DID IT WOULD RATTLE BACK AND FORTH LIKE.. CRAP I DONT EVEN KNOW. IT WOULD BREAK. IF YOU DID A "2" LINK YOU WOULD NEED A PAN HARD BAR OR 3RD LINK TO STOP THE REAR END FROM WAGGING AND THEN BREAKING. HENCE A 3 LINK. BUT WHY NOT GO 4 SO IF ONE BREAKS YOU DONT CORK SCREW YOUR DIFF.

[camo]

my recomendation, buy the Hendrix built lower subframe that has the james link setup front and rear. it is a well engineered suspension and with good shocks will do just fine in the dunes, desert and any rock trail in the country you want to run.

FYI. my xchassis is running hendrix suspension setup with coilovers and triple bypasses at all corners and will be used for prerunning everything from Baja to shredding glamis to 5+ rated rock trails.

stop trying to revient the wheel ( or be a cheap ass ) and stick with the proven design. your already halfway there with the chassis, buy the subframe and link mounts from hendrix.

as far as setting up ride height or jounce and drop on your shocks. go with 50/50 and it will serve you well. that and call mike and chew his ear. he has 1000's of hours of engineering invested in the design of the xchassis, take advantage of it as I serously doubt the is another chassis available with as much development work done on it

[gm500hprat]

Thanks Camo,

The subframe will not work for my setup. even though its got an x-chassis serial # it is really more like an f-toy with the addition of the fuel cell rails. Im reusing my 76 gmc frame and 4 linking the rear.

My question seems to have been lost somewhere Im not asking what I kind of setup I should do, Im asking should I have more up or more down travel. Thats it.

Im not going to run a "2 link" which I think from looking at his other posts is really a radius arm type setup not a 2 link. I dont need a sub frame cause I already got one.

Im running a 4link with TJ coils I will be using King Remote Reservoirs 16" travel. Im not being cheap I know what Im going to run just need to know more up or down, you said 50/50 which sounds good to me I just want to know what the desert guys are running thats why I posted in this forum and not formula toy, this thing will never touch rocks.

[camo]

well for desert setup it is going to depend on terrain.

start with 50/50 and work from there.

short course style jumps you will lower ride height and run maybe 75droop/25jounce and let the suspension drop out when air borne

baja style fast stuff with few big hits you will run a lower setup as well but maybe 60/40

rough barstow style nasty whoops your back to 50/50 or even 40/60

as you can see you racers will set the car up for the course. for general all around setup 50/50 is where I would set it up for all around

[camo]

Originally Posted by gm500hprat

Thanks Camo,

The subframe will not work for my setup. even though its got an x-chassis serial # it is really more like an f-toy with the addition of the fuel cell rails. Im reusing my 76 gmc frame and 4 linking the rear.

.

consider converting it to a full xchassis. ( mike should be able to hook ya up with the parts ) I have built a ftoy and an xchassis and using the frame is more work and has alot of drawbacks.

[camo]

addressing shock angle since it was brought up.

angle your shocks forward so they are at a 1:1 ration with the axle travel.

[gm500hprat]

Thanks for the info Camo this is the kind of info I was hoping to get.

My setup is as follows: (very heavy)cast iron BBC 500hp/th400/np205/corp 14bolt. With the weight of the big block I just felt more comfortable reusing the factory frame for engine mounts, transfer case mounts and steering, if I got a chromoly chassis that was built for Baja style racing I might do all tube with the Big Block. Also I wanted to retain my stock steering setup and use my alcans leafs in the front for now and convert to 4link at a later time when I have more money to throw around.

I plan on building this truck for a while and using it then selling it and building a full tube x-chassis and running an ls2 and using light weight equipment and maybe making it 2wd. But for now the plan was to build something utilizing what I got and like you said, "not reinvent the wheel".

And on your statement about shock angle how do I figure out the ratio.

I apreciate all your input it is very helpful. I will build my suspension and add in adjustablity for the different terrains.

[phil_j]

Originally Posted by gm500hprat

Im asking should I have more up or more down travel. Thats it...

Im running a 4link with TJ coils I will be using King Remote Reservoirs 16" travel

Just curious, but if you already know what coils and what shocks you are going to be running, how are you going to set a certain amount of up/down travel for your ride height?

If you were running coilovers and trying to decide what springs to run, or even regular coils and shocks, sure, you could choose a rate to give you the ride height you wanted. But since you've already picked your springs, what adjustment is left?

Maybe I'm missing something here...

[TotalImmortal]

preload.

[gm500hprat]

Originally Posted by phil_j

Just curious, but if you already know what coils and what shocks you are going to be running, how are you going to set a certain amount of up/down travel for your ride height?

If you were running coilovers and trying to decide what springs to run, or even regular coils and shocks, sure, you could choose a rate to give you the ride height you wanted. But since you've already picked your springs, what adjustment is left?

Maybe I'm missing something here...

Your absolutely right, but still slightly missing my question, I probably worded it wrong in my first post. Im just asking how do dezert guys run there setup more up or down. And this is just info for me for future planning. John Currie gave me these 4" HD TJ Coils and if when all is mounted and they are too light or I dont like them, then I will switch to coilovers. I know Zach from 505performance in New Mexico ran a similiar setup uzing tj coils in all 4 corners with 18" saw's and he loves it. Just keeping my options open.

now I know that it varies on terrain.

[camo]

Originally Posted by gm500hprat

And on your statement about shock angle how do I figure out the ratio.

.

cycle the suspension and use a tape mesure.
1" of axle movement = 1" of shock travel.

of course you can got alot higher than that but for a beginner build you will have better luck sticking with the basics to make a suspension work well.

[gm500hprat]

Got it. Thanks Camo. Anytips on mounting the shocks, I've seen all sorts off different ways.

TT's mount them on the lower link and the lower and upper shocks mounts are parallel with it

I've seen lots of rock crawlers with the shocks mounting upper and lower mounts parallel to the axle.

Then I've seen some with the lower shock mount perpendicular to the axle and the upper parallel.

If I tilt it forward for a 1:1 ratio seems like the shock mount locations should be perpendicular to the axle or it seems like it would bind.

[phil_j]

Originally Posted by TotalImmortal

preload.

On a coil and bucket setup?

[DesertLab]

A 1:1 shock ratio is ideal to use the shock in the most effective manner, however, on a 3 or 4 link, you will NEVER be able to achieve the amount of wheel travel without angling the shocks forward. (ie: 18" stroke shock mounted at a 1:1 ratio will only yield 18"s of travel.)

I suggest not running a 1:1 ratio at all for a 3 or 4 link application.

You should easily be able to achieve 24 - 30 inches of rear wheel travel with a 16" stoke shock. In that scenario, you should shoot for at least 10-12 inches of up travel. Regardless, your up travel will be dictated by ride height.

To achieve a lower ride height, and maintain an exceptable amount of up travel, you can notch your frame rails and get 3-4 inches of additional up travel.

[phil_j]

Except that he's only planning on running 12-14 inches of travel...so a shock setup capable of 24-30" of travel is not going to be of much benefit.

To get back to the original question, I'm linking mine right now, and am going for a good all round setup - something I can use for crawling, trails, and higher speed stuff. I'm shooting for (and have been advised) roughly a 50/50 setup...to second what camo already said.

[DesertLab]

Why only plan for the minimium, when additional travels numbers are so easy to achieve in a 3 or 4 link setup?

50/50 is a good starting point. 8 - 10 inches of up travel or more is your friend at higher speeds.

[rbnorwood21]

i'm more of a slow speed/ rocks kinda guy, but seems to me like you want to sit low for stability, have up travel for small quick stuff, and big droop for the narley drops. your suspension should cycle up till just before it hits something (tire rub, upper links, etc.) and cycle down till the driveline angle is barely acceptable. i know he coil springs kinda limit your ride height tuneabilty; but after setting a desireable ride height, would there be anything wrong with using two points close to these "cycle limits" to set up, and in theory, maximize your shock travel? i'm just tryin to help out and learn so if i'm totally right i hope i helped you out, but if i'm not even close someone shoot me straight. thanks and good luck sounds like a cool project vehicle