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Old 12-17-2006, 11:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Dimple Dies and Flare Tools

I believe it was in general, the talk about dimple dies, but I had a couple more specific questions that I figured yall might be able to answer.

In doing some looking for dimple dies for our mini-baja project, we came across the issue between using a "flare tool" and a "dimple die". In terms of thickness, the dimple die, used in a press can obviously conform thicker sheet to its profile; however, no sheet that we will be using will be above 16guage (about .060" thick). And the idea of using a drawthrough bolt seems nice for some of our more complicated parts (fitting into a press). To speed the process up, I'm sure we could adapt the "flare tool" to fit in the press. But, here the question comes, as far as profile of the "dimple", how does a purchased dimple die and flare tool compare?

Our chassis consists of everything between 1-1/4" tubing to 1/2" tubing, and in terms of gussets and boxed in mounts, a dimple die capable of creating a "deep" dimple, deep enough to weld to an opossing sheet (on either side of a tube), would be great. There just isnt any sort of info out there on how deep the dimple is given die size and material. Does anyone have a link to this kind of thing or an idea of measurements?

Lastly, the profiles of dimple dies themselves seem relatively straightforward. For those of you that have made them, how much does the taper of that section of the die really effect the dimple created? And, what kinds of tapers are you running?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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there was a good write up in the tool section, but seems once again the search is gone. (man, seems this is the only site that i pay money for that doesnt work 1/2 of the time )

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Old 12-18-2006, 07:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Dimple dies only flare about 1/4" deep depending on size. To connect two dimpled sheets, you weld a tube between the dimples.

I'm not sure what you are asking, but if you put a fine thread grade 8 bolt through the dies, and use two flat needle bearings and washers, you should have no trouble making dimples in .060" mild.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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thanks for the response

Scott F - yeah, from what I've seen on here and other forums, I've definately seen joining dimples w/ tube; however, seeing as how we are sandwiching 3/4" to 1" tube with thin sheet (probably in the order of .035") and joining them via dimple dies, I was kind of hoping to be able to get a deeper dimple so as to skip the process of adding the very short tube section...less material to order, fewer processes in manufacturing, and 1 less weld per joint. But, this response was expected.

So, there are a couple questions remaining and some additional ones as well...

1) Are the dimple profiles with using a dimple die or flare tool different?

2) Can the depth of the dimple be altered given a different profile of the die? Or, seeing as how using a die with a straight taper gives a curved dimple, are the profiles more dependent on material not the die?

3) For those of you that have made dimple dies, what angle of taper are you incorporating into the die?

We are looking at dimpling holes between 3/4" and 2" and are using annealed 4130 between .030" and .060" thick. After the chassis (complete w/ gussets and tabs), upper and lower A arms, and semi-traiiling arms are completely manufactured, all of these parts will be heat-treated, so we are using annealed sheet so it should be very easy to conform during manufacturing.

This is looking like it would better fit in the tools section. So, if someone feels that it should be moved, please feel free to do so accordingly. I just thought the info would be most prevelent for use by those frequenting the desert section.

Thanks.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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hers that thread. lots of good info
/forum/shop-tools/516640-jmr-light-speed-dimple-dies.html
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Old 12-19-2006, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Clearly you are a mechanical engineering student. Beware the analysis paralysis.

1) ?

2) ? There may be tearing issues with too much depth.

3) I think they all use very similar angles. Call the vendors and ask.
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Old 12-30-2006, 11:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have not had much luck asking for dim's of dimole dies on this board ! I fianlly just made a set but i have not used them yet . I will let you know what I find out. PM me for details if you want to try and make a set. Theirs a picture of them in my build thread in the Jeep H.C. forum, cause i'm to dumb to link my build to my sig(HEHEHEHE).
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Old 02-10-2007, 05:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, we got around to starting our dimple-died sheet parts. We're in the shop now and just made a couple dimple dies. The first two that have been made are for 1" and 3/4" holes. The 1" one has an effected area on .035" annealed 4130 sheet of 1.8" diameter. The 3/4" one has an effected area of 1.2" diameter. The male ends of both dies are made with a 45 degree pitch. The female ends are made with a 40 degree pitch. Both dies are through bored to allow use of a bolt to draw the die together for dimpling parts welded to the chassis. The 3/4" die produces a "dimple depth" of approximately 3/16 of an inch. The 1" die dimples further at just over 1/4 of an inch". This profile gives a great dimple profile with very smooth transitions and no tearing in our .035 sheet.

Thought yall might like some dimensions to aid in the process of making custom dies.

I'll try to get some pictures up here as soon as possible. We're currently working on a "bulkhead" piece around the b pillar of our car (the area our legs pass through into the foot box). There are 19 3/4" holes and 13 1" holes in the part, so the dimpling process is gonna take some time.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here are some pics from our finished bulkhead. The material is 0.032 4130 annealed sheet. The sheet is annealed because the entire chassis is being heat treated after everything is welded. The dies we made used a draw bolt through the center to facilitate the bulkhead being welded in before dimpling to minimize movement in the sheet when we wnet to fit the bulkhead in the chassis.


In the above pic you can see through the chassis to where the bulkhead is needed because in any frontal loading situation the vertical members will just seperate. The bulkhead was used to strengthen that whole area as it is one of the highest load concentrations.







Pirate salute!

I just want to say that this is the first time our school has had a SAE Baja team and we know we are overbuilding this thing. We based all the chassis FEA on our worst case loading scanario for 5000 cycles. So, our chassis and suspension members should withstand 5000 8 foot jumps to a flat landing.

Seeing what other teams have abused and what works we know that ours will be heavy but we really want to finish for a first year team.

I know the spacing of the holes isn't ideal but we need to get this thing done!
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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looking cool guys
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I got some info from a guy at light racing (casey). Then number I called was 209-966-4172. He gave me tons of info
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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i ended up getting some from poly performance. got the light racing type now time for some fun

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Old 02-19-2007, 07:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Lookin' good. I'll see ya at competition.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Lookin' good. I'll see ya at competition.
Are you with OSU? They have done amazingly well in the past. I hope ours can make it to competition. We are only going to Rochester this year. Are yall going to all 3?
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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im really pretty new to this whole "desert-fab" spill, but i deffinatly like it. the fabrication is much more thought out and well put together. Its really a form of art combining form with function. But, lookin at the pics here in this thread, that shop looks more like a LAB, i mean wheres the grider dust and cutting oil?

Nice work guys, just ordered my first flared hole die so i thought id drop in here. 3/4", haha goin big.
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it is a lab, a college's machine shop. I may be mistaken?
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