UMP Air filter question

[laproscopic]

agree on the 80 series air filters. the filter is designed for the dusty conditions seen by the saudis and the australians. the filter is huge and has a nice design to catch the dirt. when i turbod my 80 i took off the huge filter and ran a cone k&N. the k&n started making a greasy mess in my tbody and needed to cleaned often in the dirty conditions i wheel. so i put the oe filter back on and havn't looked back. just be sure to empty the dirt catch can. it is only the size of a tuna can and can fill with dirt.it is so well made- all steel construction, beefy rubber o-rings, 3 quick release steel latches, 3 large mounting points. it will flow the ls1 all day long

here is the filter
http://www.partstrain.com/store/deta...haaf504180aifi

here is the housing
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-canister.html

im also impressed with the h1 filter and housing. you could probably stuff that h1 filter into the belly of a dead whale and it would find the clean air

[77blazerdriver]

Afe does one also.
http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...artno=51-11061

[binderbound]

I like this thread. Those BTI housings are .

Maybe off topic but does anybody make a hat for a TBI/carb type set up so a guy can run a tube to one of those canisters?

[IslanderXJ]

Originally Posted by binderbound

I like this thread. Those BTI housings are .

Maybe off topic but does anybody make a hat for a TBI/carb type set up so a guy can run a tube to one of those canisters?

Spectre Performance Part#s

9849 -

98499 -

9859 -

98599 -

[binderbound]

Originally Posted by IslanderXJ

Spectre Performance Part#s

9849 -

98499 -

9859 -

98599 -

Thanks! wonder if those work on propane set ups? Who makes a good tube material to go between the filter housing and the intake?
Thanks for the help!

[mustange70]

You guys ever look at what all the big diseals in the ag. industry run? Thats where the UMP design most likely came from, most use a dual paper filter setup and can supply more than enough air, and operate in worse conditions than what you'd see in a desert race (i've had times dworking the fields where the wind was just right and the dust clouds would just hover around the machine the entire day, yeah you'd have to blow the filters out every other day in condtions like that, but still never a problem). Granted packaging would be a bit of a hassel as the housing are not small.

[BigWoodyWag]

So has anyone run the Donaldson's, AFE's, Howes or the Cyclones to date?

I think JR put the new Howes on the UFO but my vision sucks I think the logo is the same???

[BigWoodyWag]

Well I went with dual Supers from Advanced, should be complete overkill.

[lxh0318]

Originally Posted by BigWoodyWag

Well I went with dual Supers from Advanced, should be complete overkill.

Got a link?

[BigWoodyWag]

Originally Posted by lxh0318

Got a link?

anything for you loren.

I went with two 10" Dia. x 20 " Inline Super Flow (2nd from the bottom), the Dual filter Dakar unit (Bottom) is designed to have one of the two filters cleaned without removing the entire canister. Not really necessary and fair amount of risk of dumping debris down the motor.

http://www.advancedaircleanersystems.com/superflow.htm

And from what I can tell JR put them on the UFO in 8x12" and 8x15" flavors.
But our builds and needs are substantially different.



From JR's UFO thread.

[lxh0318]

Originally Posted by BigWoodyWag

anything for you loren.

How sweet, since they don't have a price tag what do they cost?

[BigWoodyWag]

the 10x20's are $280.

[Baja_Blazer]

You would be surprised by how much power these items below will rob from a good engine. The air boxes are way to small to be efficient and all those 90* bends kill flow and velocity.

We have done dyno and asphalt tests to confirm this - kills the top end power.

Just a few weeks ago we asphalt tested a similar setup on a new Class 6 with 565 Hp V6 - picked up 7 Mph removing it. 106 Mph became 113 Mph with a simple change.

When we raced a 740 Hp Patton SBC, it dropped almost 50 dyno Hp and was so noticeable on the course, we changed design. Most of the problem is in the volume and height of the air box, then in the restrictive bends.

Great filtration though - so we ran the setup in long races and not in the short ones.

Originally Posted by IslanderXJ

Spectre Performance Part#s

9849 -

98499 -

9859 -

98599 -

Originally Posted by BigWoodyWag

anything for you loren.

http://www.advancedaircleanersystems.com/superflow.htm

[raulv240]

Originally Posted by Baja_Blazer

You would be surprised by how much power these items below will rob from a good engine. The air boxes are way to small to be efficient and all those 90* bends kill flow and velocity.

We have done dyno and asphalt tests to confirm this - kills the top end power.

Just a few weeks ago we asphalt tested a similar setup on a new Class 6 with 565 Hp V6 - picked up 7 Mph removing it. 106 Mph became 113 Mph with a simple change.

When we raced a 740 Hp Patton SBC, it dropped almost 50 dyno Hp and was so noticeable on the course, we changed design. Most of the problem is in the volume and height of the air box, then in the restrictive bends.

Great filtration though - so we ran the setup in long races and not in the short ones.

So what do you recommend?

[Baja_Blazer]

Originally Posted by raulv240

So what do you recommend?

It really comes down to what your engine needs to get maximum output - if that is your goal.

I recommend first eliminating as many restrictions as possible, this means having the filter as close to the intake as possible (even straight tube is restrictive) and eliminating as many bends a possible (we added 6 Hp on a chassis dy to a full race Class 12 VW motor by eliminating 2 90* elbows). All this assumes a big enough filter in the first place with large enough intake and and outlet. Several years ago I had Cliff at Unique Metal Products (UMP) make their biggest filter with 6" outlet and inlet (it may be a standard product now) and convert one if his biggest airboxes to 6" Inlet - it helped but still hurt the top end significantly. The problem was the airbox was not big enough. I ended up with a custom airbox that was 10" in dia. and 8" tall with the big inlet. That helped but still didn't perform as well as a big K&N right on top of the carb. We ran the K&N at races like Laughlin and the UMP in Baja or when it was a wet race - traded performance for longevity.

We just made up our own flat panel filter that is showing great potential - only one race, at Parker. We will be testing it on the dyno tomorrow to see how the performance is and check intake air temp as it sits over the motor. We could route fresh air to it if necessary. The advantage I'm looking for on the flat panel is that the dirt falls or is shaken off of it and out of the filter box - it came back from Parker clean.

[raulv240]

Any pics of that flat panel set-up?

[BigWoodyWag]

No doubt restrictions, kill!
My motor will flow over 900cfm at sea level at full tilt. Thats clean fresh air at sea level. Now lets go to 4000ft add silt, dust, ect. Or Tonapah, NV at 6000' in August, your effective atmosphere is probably more like 8k.

Each of those 10x20" cans flows 900cfm, so you can see why I went with 2 of them. As for bends, I'm at near zero degrees until right before the throttle body and then its a 130 degree "U". Yes that "U" worries me. But its the compromise that has to be made to fit 10lbs of filtration in a 5lb bag.

I believe JR's post in the UFO thread on that filter setup was that it was the bare minimum that the LS7 needed.

[racer_dude]

On our 1 car we run a big K&N.

LS7 (pretty stock) to an aluminum intake tube that is 4' long at 4" dia, with a 90* bend in it at the cab. The filter sits behind the drivers seat out of any water or major debris areas. Our current motor builder said that IT HAS TO be robbing power, so we pulled the system off. We did back to back dyno pulls with and without the filter and 4' long intake. ZERO change in HP.

Now, the UMP systems are a HUGE power sucker at top end, but are ok in mid-low, or in high debris/ water situations.

We also have K&N filters that are coming straight from their R&D department, but there isnt too much crazyness with them.

[84prerunner]

Originally Posted by ToyTruck HJ45

Thats how the Donaldson's work , the Dirty air enters where the filter is shielded by the plastic cover (pic in Link)
https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/W...79&item=155562
The plastic cover (see pic) has fan blades to assist the Cyclone method of removing large particles , and at the end of the housing is a catch can to catch the big stuff and store it .... Newer Donaldsons have the Dump valve to automatically dump the big debris.
Another thing that can be added is a "Pre-Cleaner" instead of the "Air Ram" that I am using on the filter Inlet
The Air Ram is only good for trying to stop water / rain entering the filter housing.

I am Re-using my filter housings with the 3 Inch In / 3 Inch Out just because I had them .... When I have the $$$ to Upgrade my engine to an LSx I am going to upgrade the Filter housings to 4 inch In / Out

Thats the same exact thing that is inside a UMP housing.

[sommertime]

Anyone have luck with CBM 3layer oiless filter seen below, I am gonna give it a shot after a few minutes on the phone with them. As with everything packaging all this crap under the hood gets cumbersome quickly. A dual canister type filter like ump or Donaldson is not on my radar yet. Let us know how yours works out Wyatt?

[TorqueRanger]

I am not trying to start a war over this but I will not buy k&n filter because they are pure junk and a waste of your hard earned money... My reason for this is because I ran a k&n and green filter for a couple years and always found small dust particles in the intake tube no matter what(Yes I cleaned and re oiled to man specs and I still had this problems when I bought them brand new)... I also cleaned up everything before assembling the intake to make sure this was not a fluke .. I have used a couple of different k&n filter too with the same effects ... But I tried AEM Brute Force Dryflow air filter and absolutely love them and will never goo back...

[laproscopic]

5" Mega Super Filter from Kartek
http://www.kartek.com/Product/AirFilters/UMP.html

biggest one ump makes. its huge

[BigWoodyWag]

Originally Posted by laproscopic

5" Mega Super Filter from Kartek
http://www.kartek.com/Product/AirFilters/UMP.html

biggest one ump makes. its huge

I didnt call UMP so my bad. But I couldnt find any sizing/deminsional info anywhere on UMP. I think the Mega Super is 10x21? Do you know how many CFM it will flow? I am guessing 900-950 based on the element size.

Racer_dude says the canned filters are power suckers at the top end. I just dont know, but based on CFM of a motor at WOT their motors probably maxed were probably over the max the filter could flow.

I know my motor will exceed the CFM needed of a 10x20, so I needed two. Then you added clogged with dust/silt, and then you add elevation with thinner air. It all adds up to choking the motor. I'm building in 1800cfm for my motor. No doubt overkill! But until 4400 starts further up in the packs we'll be sucking lots of dust. And with as much as I got in motor I'm just trying to protect it as best I can.


Math (rounded) for LS's
6.0l is 366ci
366ci w/7250 max rpm will require 768CFM @ WOT.

If you take a 900cfm filter and add silt/dust/debris you degrade from that 900cfm. @ 85% (15% blockage) you are at 765CFM How many times after a desert race have you pulled the filter and had it look like a dustball??? Clogged way more that 15%.

7.2l is 440ci
440ci w/7250max rpm will require 923CFM @ WOT

So a pristine 900 CFM filter is already the limiting factor for that motor. If you went with 900 x 2 = 1800 cfm. You are still golden up to 48% clogged.
Add elevation for relative atmosphere and you degrade from that number even further.

[laproscopic]

you can see pics of the filter on the last page of my build.

I agree its not big enough if u get it dirty. its 19" long and 10" diameter filter.

but unless you run 2 its as big as it gets. I want to dyno my car after a race and see then pull the filter and see how much power it is wasting....

we a put a single ump mega filter on our R1 powered teryk (1000cc motor) and choked out 20 hp vs the K&N on the same dyno. it runs the K&N now

[BigWoodyWag]

Its all compromises. I got the filters coming in the brown truck, but the hell if I know how I'm going to fit them.... When its all said I done I may just have to downsize motors to a filter/filters that will fit.