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Old 09-25-2012, 01:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hacksters Crew Cab first gen Cummins

So my tow rig for the last three years has been a 1993 w250 that has racked up 249,000 miles on it. It has been hands downt the most dependable, hadest working truck I have ever owned by a long shot....even better than the 07 cummins I bought off the lot brand new in late 06.

Truck is all turned up with timing bump, denny t fuel pin wh1c with 14 cm housing, leveling kit and 35's with 2" dom tube bumpers. Its a standard cab long bed and I love it.

Here is the dirty old girl in all her glory, doing what she usually does, towing the car trailer around with some project on the trailer.



Well, have sold off a few cool cars in the past few months in order to build the rig that I have wanted for the last few years. A crew cab short bed cummins 5 speed with some one tons under it.

So the search began for the right truck......well more like trucks right? After lots of searching I found a 1993 extra cab long bed w250 with a cummins and a 5 speed 4 wheel drive. The truck had was in an accident but I really was not interested in much of the body. Not to mention I got it for a good price. So I loaded up the trailer and headed up into the sticks to pick it up.

Two first gens...happy times.







Not much to look at but good running gear with pod's denny t fuel pin kdp fixed and a rebuit getrag.

So this will be the donor drivetrain...

I brought it home on Friday afternon and could not get the tools out fast enough.



Had a little help from a friend but we made pretty quik work, the cab was entirely stripped of everything, harness was all unplugged and removed in one piece, it was in great shape with just a little bit of hackery to clean up but nothing too bad.







Cut out a bunch of the firewall so that I would hopefully be able to weld in the right opening for the heater box and the firewall harness plug.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Stripped it down to the frame, pressure washed everything and threw some paint on while it waits for more work.

Pushed it over into the corner of the shop waiting for the next phase.



So part two was located up in the seattle area and arrived here at the junkyard today courtesy of my dad... he lives up there.

1979 crew cab long bed dually 2wd, in ok shape, not the greatest but a lot better than most.





Had the afternoon to work on it today.... and got a fair bit of work done.



Thanks for the compliments, worked a lot to make the garage be a nice place to spend time. I spend a lot of time out there....too bad these things are just a bit too large to fit in the shop.

Once the Dually was home and I drove it around the block once, I pulled it in and started on the teardown. I think it had been at my house for maybe an hour before I got started.

Stripped the frontend down in preparation for the body to come off.





Then moved onto the interior. It was in really nice shape with the black dash all in one piece.





This is pretty much how I left it last night. Column is loose just needs final disconnect, Four bolts and the cab is ready to come off.



I have a couple questions and I was hoping someone here might be able to shed some light on them.

For the heaterbox, are you guys cutting out the entire section and welding in the new panel from the cummins truck? Eyeballing it last night it almost looks like there are just a couple sections that need to be cut and patched to make the newer heater box work in the older cab.

Clutch assembly and harness bulkhead. I cut out the entire firewall from the old truck so I have all the holes already, guessing most people are cutting about a 12" by 12" square out and replacing it with the newer firewall with the right holes for the electrical and clutch.

Removing the cab......So, here is my only real problem so far. I have no lift at home, no back hoe, forklift or anything else. How have you guys removed these big cabs from the truck? I am sure someone has some ingenious way that I just have not figured out yet.

Thanks in advance for the help.


The plan for the truck is very minimal lift with some modified front fenders to clear some 37" BFG Allterrains on Hutchinson beadlocks. 4:10's in the diffs with some type of locker (ARB's I am guessing but it comes down to price) tube bumpers front and rear and roof rack. Still toying with whether or not I want a sheetmetal 6' bed or just build it all out of tube and have it be functional and never have to worry about damaging it.


The truck will be used for a tow rig and adventure vehicle all in one.

That is where I am at so far. Hope to make some more progress on it this week maybe just maybe get the cab off and get all the welding work done.

Sean
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Man I love your reg cab long bed truck. Looks like this is gonna be a sweet little project. Keep the pics coming!
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Do you have an engine hoist? Or a good heavy horizontal tree limb with a cum-a-long? I used an engine hoist to take the whole complete body off my Jeep when I did my driveway frame swap.

Or you can jack up the body and crib it in place then roll the frame out from under it then just roll the new frame/rolling chassis under the donor cab.

And I say go with a good tube flatbed. That way you can shorten your wheelbase a by about 15" and have a good departure angle and all that jazz...

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Old 09-25-2012, 05:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If you've got access to a winch, a pulley, and some overhead something that can handle the weight of the cab (shop rafter, I-beam, tree branch, etc.), you can run boards through the door openings and hang the cab by its roof, lift it up and roll out the old chassis, lower cab onto the new one.

I'd vote tube bed, maybe with removable stake sides?

I anticipate this build being awesome, your current truck is that's for sure!

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Old 09-25-2012, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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good to see another 1st gen cummins build
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What engine is currently in the 79 dually?
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I just got a 79 crew for my 92 extra. Please document the heater box issues and fixes. And if you need any info measurement etc... I have a running 92' extra cab I can take measurements from. Also a semi complete 79 crew. thanks for posting it could not of come at a better time.

Too bad your not closer, I would volunteer my time to learn.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Awesome project! like the pic's and where you are goin-Eric'sGreen98Tj had the same idea as me-jack up the cab-crib ir-roll out old-in with new-thats how I got my current project off the trailer at the house and sittin on blocks with no runnin gear-good luck-look forward to watching your progress!!
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks guys,

I am attempting to pull the cab without pulling the bedoff for now, and I have a winch on my buggy so that might work.

I also have a Warn Pullzall that I think I will hook up to a big a frame that I have at work and see if that will do the job.

The dually has a 360 and a torque flite 727 in it. Runs and drives really great.
I am thinking about putting a really early 30's cab on it and building a small hot rod hauler out of it. Would be bitchin to see the crawler on the back of it

As far as the heater box goes, it was one of those things that I was dreading doing, so I got everything out and laid both heater boxes side by side to see just how different they were. Turns out that they really are not that much different than one another.

I had already cut out the firewall from the other truck so I was acutally able to overlay the new firewall right over the old firewall and see exacty what needed to happen.

I Marked the new opening and got to work with a step drill, cut off wheel, die grinder, hammer and dolly.









I left a 1/4" inside the two small areas that needed trimming passenger side top corner, then I trimmed out the new opening. Once that was done, I took the hammer and dolly to it to get a nice radius to mimmick the factory flange. The heater box still covers the entire area so with a new seal, it will look just like a factory opening. Cut out a small hole for the heater lines to pass through, then enlarged it to make it just big enough for the lines to fit through.

It really was not too painful, if you were closer I would be more than happy to lend a hand......I followed along on your build for the last few years. We have a lot of the same ideas.

So I also was dreading the drivers side, but I think I came up with a nice solution.

I was trying to figure out a way to stiffen up the firewall near the pedal assembly and the same time I needed to cut up the firewall to move the harness cutout. Lots of factory firewalls are doubled up with sheetmetal in the pedal box area and spot welded together.

I trimmed out a panel from the 93 firewall that I wanted to use. Once it was trimmed to fit right, I took to the hammer and dolly and beat a lip all the way around the outside of it and trimmed it all up with a flapper wheel on the grinder.

I think it turned out ok, Just wondering how it will look on the firewall, I really like the idea of it though stiffening up the firewall, covering up some holes and not having to do a bunch of bodywork on the firewall. What you guys think?



Sean
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Another thing you need to consider is how the hydraulic clutch master cylinder mounts if you intend to use a manual transmission. The older firewalls do not have the provision for the master cylinder and need some reinforcement in that area. If you want to double up the panels, that's fine but I think I would just weld it in and be done with it. There isn't much need to make it removable and if it's welded in there isn't much need for the lip around it which I foresee as being a nice thing to remove the flesh from your hands while working on it.

As for the cab, if you don't have an overhead beam to support it, probably the best ideas are an A-frame gantry or cribbing it up and rolling the chassis out from under it like others have posted.

I have swapped regular cabs and even an import extended cab by sticking a engine crane through the door and using chains and straps to lift from 4 corners on the floor. It's a little unsteady but I was able to swap cabs by myself this way but every time the doors were off and the cabs were completely gutted. Even without all the extra weight a Crew Cab is going to be very heavy and the B pillar will make it interesting to get the weight balanced in the center so it doesn't immediately flop to one side or one end after lifting it. With some though and maybe some eye bolts for the body mounts to make a more secure lifting point is could probably be done that way if you can't get anything else worked out. The cribbing idea would probably be a lot safer, though will take more time and work.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The firewall isn't what takes the stress of the clutch cylinder, there is a bracket that bolts to the steering column mount. The firewall is a oversized hole for the grommet to seat in. You would have to move your electrical bulkhead to the left too.

A crew cab that's gutted can be carried around with two people although it is awkward and moderately heavy
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The firewall isn't what takes the stress of the clutch cylinder, there is a bracket that bolts to the steering column mount. The firewall is a oversized hole for the grommet to seat in. You would have to move your electrical bulkhead to the left too.

A crew cab that's gutted can be carried around with two people although it is awkward and moderately heavy
This is the reason that I am using the firewall plate from the 93 on the 79. The clutch master cylinder hole is in the proper location as well as the firewall junction hole is the correct size and in the right location.

My plan was to mount the plate over the existing firewall with the three bolts for the column, mark out the new holes in the old firewall, trim those out then spot weld the reinforcement plate on where it needs to go.

I might just weld up the old holes that are no longer needed and cut out the new opening on the firewall.

I was hoping that the enginebay was not going to need to be repainted, but it quickly became obvious that it was going to be so no real worry about cutting, welding and grinding on the firewall.

I should be able to have this side of it pretty well sorted tonight if all goes well. Need to at least get the cab up and off the frame so I can start measuring for the notches that need to be cut in the cab floor for the exra cab framerails.

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Work week has been busy so not much progress.

I did manage to get a bit done tonight though, got home from work fed the dog ate some dinner and headed out to the big tan turd!!

Here is what I started with, a hole that is too big for the electrical and in the wrong spot and no location for the clutch master cylinder (So excited to have a clutch master cylinder at all )



I decided against the plate on top of the firewall....It was just not going to be clean enough in the end.

Made a patch panel out of the old blue firewall since I know it is the same guage and I had plenty of it.



Tacked a screw onto it for something to hold onto and tacked it in place.



tac tac tac repeat over and over again



So with that welded up, I cleaned up the weld with a 4" and used the firewall as a template for where the holes needed to be and were an exact template to make my marks for the electrical and clutch.



It worked very well.



Hole saw, die grinder tin snips and a couple files and this is what I ended up with.





It really was not too bad of a deal except that now I really have to paint the firewall so add that onto the list of things to do before I set the body on the extra cab frame.

We have a gantry at work that I am brining home tomorrow to lift the body off the frame and hope to get it set back down on the new frame by the end of the weekend.

Sean
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Looks good. Gyman98 is right about the bracket that supports the clutch master cylinder, not the sheetmetal of the firewall. I was thinking that it was welded in and welded to the firewall but it does bolt in. This odd looking pic is of my '88 Ramcharger's clutch master cylinder from under the dash, looking up at it. You can see the bolts holding it in:



Might want to test fit that bracket just to be sure the hole lines up good.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Paint the firewall black and leave the two-tone paint for extra awesomeness


On a side note, you can get tan spray paint from Baxter's that should match the color pretty close, might be too ghetto for you though...
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Paint the firewall black and leave the two-tone paint for extra awesomeness


On a side note, you can get tan spray paint from Baxter's that should match the color pretty close, might be too ghetto for you though...
Since he referred to it as the tan turd, I doubt it's staying that color That looks to have been a clean dually. I would have just done the 4x4 and Cummins swap to it and left it as is, but I have absolutely no use for a shortbed truck. Looking forward to seeing the end product.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Can I buy that section of firewall from the donner 92'? So that I can make the mods on the crew before I take apart my 92'. Maybe the section of firewall from the pass side too?

Maybe anything else that came in handy? Not tools but you know some little part or template you might of made?
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:04 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I stripped the blue truck and got the angle bracket for the clutch master out of it as well, I plan to drill the holes in the steering column bracket tonight and lift the cab off the frame.

As Scott knows, it will get proper paint on it, probably pick up a gallon so I can do the core support, inner fenders and firelwall at the same time.

Truck is staying Tan though. It totally looks like its right out of the 70's.

K5Runner.... I am more than happy to send you the templates down for you to use, but the plan is to not make this my last cummins swap so I would like to get them back at some point. I try and keep all my templates for future projects, you never know when your going to need one.

Trying to figure out the core support now, seems as though I am going to have to hack up my core support from the 79 and one froma cummins to make the swap work. Has anyone done this before? I really want to keep the old school frontend, grille and headlights on it, they totally date the truck.

Any ideas where I can pick up a non mangled first gen cummins core support?

Sean
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks I will PM you with info.

Also I am not going to use the core off of my 79' crew. Its all yours. BUT..... The newer cummins had the grill the way they did to clear the intercooler. I do not think you can make the earlier version work with an IC.

Or are you wanting a 91'+ front core?
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:18 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Also whats the plan with the Black 1st gen? Looks like its not involved in your crew project.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Ah, you're keeping the complete cab and front end, got it. I have seen a number of old trucks with Cummins swapped in, and the room between the front of the radiator and grill is tight. Basically, you can run an IC or a/c, but not both. There is a guy that did a write-up on putting it all behind an early grill, but don't know where to find it. Papecat did a swap on his 72 crew, maybe PM him and see if he has the link to the early grill w/IC and a/c behind it. He only had an intercooler in his and it was tight.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That is good to know....

So if I want to run the intercooler and air conditioning I might need to run the new grille...

So can I run the new style grille and headlights and still run the old fenders, hood and front valance piece or does it all need to change?

Good info here guys, thanks for the help.

Sean
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The '91-'93 grille was made specifically to accommodate the diesel intercooler since the older grille designs do not have room for it. I have seen a few intercooled Cummins trucks with the older grilles but it requires a lot of cutting to the core support and a lot of reinforcement to keep it's structural integrity.

As for the new grille and old fenders, it can be done but it looks like ass due to the difference in the shape of the fenders. The '81-'93 fenders are a bit more squared off than the '70s fenders so there is a considerable lip at the corners of the grille and sides of the fenders. Also keep in mind that if you swap to new fenders, you have to swap to the newer doors as well since the '80s doors have an extra bodyline that will bite into the edge of the older fenders when opened. Your truck already has the newer hood so there shouldn't be any issues with the cowl panel though you may need to make some adjustments if you swap to the newer core support since the latches may be a little off.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Well, Sounds like I will probably just keep what I have, get a couple big and gnarly electric fans and build my own radiator, intercooler and ac condenser brackets. Not a big deal, just something else that will need to be not stock.

Anyone running an electric fan on their Cummins?

I really want to maintain the A/C in the truck as we go down to Moab a couple times a year and when its hot out on the trail all day, its really nice to load up the buggy and get into something that is comfortable and cool.

I did not think that the new grille would work with the old fenders though.

Ill keep moving on....

Sean
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