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Old 01-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dodge Nv4500 to Dodge Np205 1st gen

Okay before you guys attack me I've searched, and I can't seem to find the answer to one question. I could ask on Cummins forum, but figured you guys are a little more knowledgable. Long story short, I blew up my Getrag and I'm pulling it out this week. My question is that everyone who does the swap pulls the rear seal out of the Nv4500, but my concern is the t-case seal failing and mixing fluid. Could I run the same fluid in the trans and transfer case incase something did happen? If so what fluid would work? Incase any of you care or want pictures heres the truck.

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Old 01-01-2013, 08:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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pictures of your wife might get you further.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Run a Chevy 4x4 main shaft and a Chevy short 32spline input and a Chevy round pattern 205. Then you can run the seal around the input of the 205 and not worry about mixing the oils. I run a clear tube on the 205 just in case my 4500 wants to dump fluid into the 205. If the level is too high I know there is something wrong.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why exactly would you take the output seal out of the NV4500?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Why exactly would you take the output seal out of the NV4500?
x2?

Why in the world would you want to do that?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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GM 32 spline is a huge downgrade from Dodge 29 spline.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Why exactly would you take the output seal out of the NV4500?
The seal diameter is to small to clear the transfer case splines. I could also have the coupler lathed down but I also wouldn't know how much to have taken off because I don't have the trans yet. But I also don't want to weaken the splines by having the coupler lathed down.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think I would have to see pics of that to understand what you mean. The NV4500 was offered from the factory with a NP205, though not in a diesel so it was 23 spline but it seemed to fit just fine and I don't recall the 29 spline coupler being much larger.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think I would have to see pics of that to understand what you mean. The NV4500 was offered from the factory with a NP205, though not in a diesel so it was 23 spline but it seemed to fit just fine and I don't recall the 29 spline coupler being much larger.
When? 90's v8 1st gens?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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When I mated my nv4500 to my np205, I had to take the old seal out because it was too small. I measured the diameter of the seal mounting surface and the coupler and found a seal that worked. Mine is a 23 spline, but they should be close.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think I would have to see pics of that to understand what you mean. The NV4500 was offered from the factory with a NP205, though not in a diesel so it was 23 spline but it seemed to fit just fine and I don't recall the 29 spline coupler being much larger.
I really want to know this too. Please include make, application, model, etc...
I believe that Chevy used them first in 92', and Dodge started in 94'.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Nope, Dodge used them in '92 in gas engine trucks. So a '92 or '93 W250 or W350 with a V8 and the D60 front axle would have had a NP205. Only D44 equipped trucks got the NP241.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Nope, Dodge used them in '92 in gas engine trucks. So a '92 or '93 W250 or W350 with a V8 and the D60 front axle would have had a NP205. Only D44 equipped trucks got the NP241.
Hummmm, so did they use the 8track faced 205 or the round pattern? Gas means the 23spline, so is there a female input on the 205 or a male with a coupler? Is there a 2pc adapter like the getrac/205?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Both. All mated Dodge NP205s are 8 bolt oval pattern with an adaptor mated to it to covert it to the common 6 bolt pattern Mopar uses on pretty much everything. This adaptor is, for all intents and purposes, a part of the NP205 and not to be confused with the transmission to transfer case adaptor which is a part of the transmission.

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Old 01-03-2013, 06:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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From what Ive gathered almost everyone thats done the swap has encountered the problem of the seal being to small to clear the 205's diameter. Does anyone have specs on outside diameters of the 241 vs the 205? And are there companies that make custom seals or no?
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Doesn't the fig 8 to round adapter bolted to the 205 have a seal in it already? If so, there is no need for a seal on the rear of the trans.

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GM 32 spline is a huge downgrade from Dodge 29 spline.
I disagree. I ran a 32 spline 465 with a 1-1/2" input shaft and South Bend Clutch behind a Cummins for over a year with zero issues. Unless you are making a LOT of torque, it isn't an issue. Nonetheless, since the OP already has a 29 spline Dodge 4500 and a 29 spline 205, swapping to Chevy stuff would be STUPID!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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More info; The Chevy 4x4 4500 tail housing needs to have little reliefs made to clear the heads of the socket head screw (allen head) on the seal retainer for the input on the 205's, (Very small amount of trimming). This is for all the married Ford and Round pattern Chevy cases. The seal retainer register is sized perfectly for the 205. The divorce cases can also be drilled and tapped for the seal housing and round pattern. The input bearing locates the seal housing which locates the t-case to the adapter. So a little off with the holes doesn't matter.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Doesn't the fig 8 to round adapter bolted to the 205 have a seal in it already? If so, there is no need for a seal on the rear of the trans.



I disagree. I ran a 32 spline 465 with a 1-1/2" input shaft and South Bend Clutch behind a Cummins for over a year with zero issues. Unless you are making a LOT of torque, it isn't an issue. Nonetheless, since the OP already has a 29 spline Dodge 4500 and a 29 spline 205, swapping to Chevy stuff would be STUPID!
What if that seal fails? Then you have trans fluid mixing with t case fluid, and vise versa. The seals there for a reason, if it wasn't needed it wouldn't be there.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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So put a seal in it that fits.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:24 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thats probably whats gonna happen, either by having one custom made or finding one from a different trans that will work. I know there plenty other people that are running it the other way and it works, but I just don't trust it.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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In the 20+ years I have been doing this sort of thing, I have yet to find a seal that didn't exist. There are seal spec manuals that will list seals by dimension so it's pretty easy to find something that will work. All you need to know is the OD, the ID and what type of seal you need.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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What if that seal fails? Then you have trans fluid mixing with t case fluid, and vise versa. The seals there for a reason, if it wasn't needed it wouldn't be there.
GM setups only have a seal on the t-case input and they don't have any issues. Why would this be any different?

I'm not really sure why the Dodge 4500 has a seal in the tailhousing. It was mated to the NP241... don't 29 spline dodge 241's have a seal in the bearing retainer?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Nope, Dodge used them in '92 in gas engine trucks. So a '92 or '93 W250 or W350 with a V8 and the D60 front axle would have had a NP205. Only D44 equipped trucks got the NP241.
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Both. All mated Dodge NP205s are 8 bolt oval pattern with an adaptor mated to it to covert it to the common 6 bolt pattern Mopar uses on pretty much everything. This adaptor is, for all intents and purposes, a part of the NP205 and not to be confused with the transmission to transfer case adaptor which is a part of the transmission.

Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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If I am not mistaken, item 4 in that assembly pic are seals. It appears they use two single lip seals installed face-to-face. Thus, the inner seal prevents t-case fluid from leaking out, while the outer seal prevents trans fluid from leaking in to the t-case. Thus, no seal is needed in the trans.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:19 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, #4 is two identical seals for the gas and diesel automatic versions, one seal for the diesel manual transmission (Getrag) version.


4) OIL SEAL, Adapter
Part # QTY Description

4167917 2 Without Diesel Engine
4167917 2 With Diesel Engine, With A727,A518 Automatic Trans.
4269183 1 With Diesel Engine, With Manual Transmission
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