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Old 07-16-2004, 10:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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time for a forced SAS

I had my '98 Dakota die on me yesterday. left front wheel bearing went out, and I lost much of that side of the front suspension - A arms are okay, but the knuckle lost the boss for the upper caliper slide pin, the brakes are all bad and of course the bearing itself, which I should do on the other side as well since it's also 115000 miles old... and the right needs both ball joints too...

fixing what's broken on the left in parts comes to $250 plus the knuckle, and the passenger side bearing would be another $155, and another $150+ for the right ball joints it needs. I think it makes a lot of sense to say "fawk the IFS right. now." And then there's the fawking hassle of me being 100 miles from home at the moment. Nothing is ever simple with my truck!

I'm going to find some way tow my DD Dakota to a buddy's place, and start looking for an axle and springs.... planning to do this quickly, so I'm aiming low - for front leaves. If that sucks too much, I'll link it later. That solid axle D is my role model, but custom-built axles are out of my price range right now, and I think a 5 link is probably out of my time range.

In the mean time I'll be driving my junk.... I guess I'm glad I haven't welded it up yet. Hopefully my camera will cooperate so I can get some picts of the rebuild.

If you've got driver's side drop front axles you want to get rid of, see my post in the wanted section, or just PM me.
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Old 07-16-2004, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds exactly like what happend to me with my 98 Dak. Cept I went big on it.

Yer gonna have fun mounting the front of those leaves.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yeah, I've noticed your ride. looks *nice*.

I was planning on doing Mog 404s linked on both ends when the time came, but I don't have 4 grand to drop on it right now, nor do I want to let the truck sit for that long...

And you're right - those front leaves will be a bitch. Hopefully I can just build a bit of a subframe to hang them off of that will come down from where the bumper support is - but spring length will be pretty limited unless I want to set back the axle further - which I definitely don't.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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having spent most of the month under a durango and having done a SAS on my similar stock equiped explorer i think you have the perfect vehicle for an SAS.

you are going to have to more or less box in and make a nifty bracket for the front springs but its doable.

just get a Waggy 44 with waggy springs. isnt the 6 lug waggy the same as your 6 lug dodge? steering box and pump from a ram.

go for it dude!

check out car-part.com for parts locating. it was a big help for me. btw - mines a DD and have had SAS for a year and a half now - so much better on road and need i say anything about off road performance?

have fun.
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Old 07-16-2004, 01:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless
yeah, I've noticed your ride. looks *nice*.

I was planning on doing Mog 404s linked on both ends when the time came, but I don't have 4 grand to drop on it right now, nor do I want to let the truck sit for that long...

And you're right - those front leaves will be a bitch. Hopefully I can just build a bit of a subframe to hang them off of that will come down from where the bumper support is - but spring length will be pretty limited unless I want to set back the axle further - which I definitely don't.
To help give you some ideas, browse around here We wound up using 8x8 box tube with some massive gussets to back to the frame. Had to notch it on the top side to clear the condensor/radiator. I wasnt too terribly thrilled with it but it has grown on me. One of these days Im going to seal it off and make an air tank out of it.

Edit: Was going to offer you some nice aluminum wheels, but they prolly wont work after the SAS. That 6on4.5 is a fawked up pattern aint it.
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Old 07-16-2004, 01:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You might also want to talk to solidaxle durango (on the board), although im sure he can help you a bit too
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Old 07-16-2004, 01:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
To help give you some ideas, browse around here
I've looked before, but I'm going to go refresh my memory =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
Edit: Was going to offer you some nice aluminum wheels, but they prolly wont work after the SAS. That 6on4.5 is a fawked up pattern aint it.
yeah, I'll have some nice 17" aluminum ARs with pretty new 32" tires to offer up once I'm done, too

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs408
You might also want to talk to solidaxle durango (on the board), although im sure he can help you a bit too
Like I said, his truck is just about my role model, but I don't have five figures for the conversion either




So I've got my frontend lined up (low pinion D44HD, open 4.10), and hopefully I can get a matching rear from another guy here on the board I was talking to. Now all I'll need is longer/ higher rear leaves, and either front leaves or some DOM and coilovers (bling! but budget..... but bling! )

As long as I'm asking stupid questions, anyone have recomendataions for what springs to go with? I'd love to run Irocs, but I don't know if I want 36s on my DD and that's the smallest they have for the Hummer rims I'm gonna run.... I might as well aim for the height to clear them, even if I go with something slightly smaller. To be honest, I'm really not sure where to start looking for spring options.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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For what its worth, Im using 10in lift Chebby springs on mind. Cant remember where I got em tho.

Dang, I got CRS. I ran 36's for the longest time as a DD, so dont let that deter you any. The downfall was crawling on a stinking car. Grenaded the front diff (D35?maybe?) had to make a trip the next day so I yanked the half-shafts. The bearings/hub/whatever didnt like that, as thats what held everything on!
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i have an entire 1999 4.56 assembly.. control arms, driveshaft, etc. 60,000 miles on it. if you need anything off of it let me know, but i won't take apart the axle itself.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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<mr burns>
[taps fiingertips together lightly]
... excellent...
</mr burns>

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Old 07-17-2004, 05:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buchvilleman
...just get a Waggy 44 with waggy springs. isnt the 6 lug waggy the same as your 6 lug dodge?...
This is one of the reasons I went with custom axles. Waggy too narrow. Full width too wide.. The "too wide" part will depend heavily on where you live (or where you plan to wheel) and how stringnent they are on enforcing the width/flare rules. I was living in SoCal at the time, so we kept it fairly close to stock. With 3.75" backspacing and 12.50 wide tires, I'm at 77" outer tire to outer tire. Still a bit outside the flares, but looks reasonable. Been able to wheel in SoCal, NM, UT, CO, TX and OK without any hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buchvilleman
...steering box and pump from a ram....
J20 is desirable... Waggy/J10 box will work too, but J20 has much bigger barrel/stronger. Also will work (what I'm running) 97+ 2wd GM RWD luxobarge box. Huge barrel. Effortless steering with stock Durango pump. All of these are 4 bolt boxes. Just line up the 3 bolts that match, and grind off the 4th so the box will sit flat against the frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buchvilleman
...btw - mines a DD and have had SAS for a year and a half now - so much better on road ...
Mine was daily driver for 2-ish years and about 40K miles. Way better on road than lifted IFS and still road trip worthy... Last year I DROVE it to Moab!! Wheeled it, then drove it home! heheh..
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Old 07-18-2004, 11:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
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here is my cardomain site and there is a couple pics of my SAS dakota quad cab.
i used 4 in chevy leafs up front, dana44hp in front and d60 rear from a 78 f250.
swaped quad
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Old 07-18-2004, 01:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I still haven't decided on links or leaves.... I'm ordering steel tomorrow and I'm going to get enough 2" x 0.250 DOM to do links if I want, and enough plate to build shackles and hangers....

It'd be nice to link, and would avoid the stupid hanger-on-a-too-high-frame issue, but leaves and a set of u-bolts are a hell of a lot cheaper than a set of coilovers and shock hoops (don't have a bender...). I think I'll aim for a full set of 4-6" lift chebby leaves front and rear, and then adjust my ride height/clearance by the position of the hangars on the frame. Wonder if I can find a lifted bowtie in the boneyard.....
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Old 07-18-2004, 02:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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There is a guy running around town that did the same thing you are doing. He used Ford half ton front end and suspension. It turned out really simple.
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Old 07-19-2004, 05:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless
I still haven't decided on links or leaves.... I'm ordering steel tomorrow and I'm going to get enough 2" x 0.250 DOM to do links if I want, and enough plate to build shackles and hangers....

It'd be nice to link, and would avoid the stupid hanger-on-a-too-high-frame issue, but leaves and a set of u-bolts are a hell of a lot cheaper than a set of coilovers and shock hoops (don't have a bender...). I think I'll aim for a full set of 4-6" lift chebby leaves front and rear, and then adjust my ride height/clearance by the position of the hangars on the frame. Wonder if I can find a lifted bowtie in the boneyard.....
Couple of the reasons I ended up going with coils...

1) "stupid hanger-on-a-too-high-frame issue"
2) leaves -> trying to attach a straight spring to a frame that's like 3 or 4 different widths around the front suspension. Means a lot of fab work to make it durable.

I wont say it was cheap(er)... But it certainly was cleaner <- which goes back to the "it's still a daily driver for unknown period of time" that I had to consider.
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Old 07-19-2004, 09:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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half ton is a radius armed dana 44.. i don't even know how you are going to set up links on that..

i would say set up a radius armed front axle just for the ease of it..
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Old 07-19-2004, 10:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I think that is what he is talking about.

As for axles, I think if I were doing one, I would take a passenger drop waggy axle, shorten the drivers side to fit a chevy shoft side shaft, and re-tube the passenger side to accept the waggy long side shaft. This should put you at 63.5" wide, and all the parts are off the shelf, so no custom work.
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Old 07-19-2004, 11:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Why would you do all that extra work?

i doubt he's talking about a radius armed setup because he mentioned buying links.. "I'm ordering steel tomorrow and I'm going to get enough 2" x 0.250 DOM to do links if I want"
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Old 07-19-2004, 11:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRMhick
I would take a passenger drop waggy axle, shorten the drivers side to fit a chevy shoft side shaft, and re-tube the passenger side to accept the waggy long side shaft. This should put you at 63.5" wide, and all the parts are off the shelf, so no custom work.
this sounds like the plan.

does anyone know the length difference between long side ford shaft (79 HP d44) and a long side waggy d44 or similar? could run stock ford short side then stock waggy long side. i have a hp housing if you want it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidAxleDurango

J20 is desirable... Waggy/J10 box will work too, but J20 has much bigger barrel/stronger. Also will work (what I'm running) 97+ 2wd GM RWD luxobarge box. Huge barrel. Effortless steering with stock Durango pump. All of these are 4 bolt boxes. Just line up the 3 bolts that match, and grind off the 4th so the box will sit flat against the frame.

i had to change the pump since the rack&pinoin pump was high psi and i kept blowing seals in my box.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidAxleDurango
Mine was daily driver for 2-ish years and about 40K miles. Way better on road than lifted IFS and still road trip worthy... Last year I DROVE it to Moab!! Wheeled it, then drove it home! heheh..

kicks ass doesnt it? since i used stock springs the ride is a stock feel. friends cant believe its not harsh liek their lifted IFS chebbies or bolt on jeep lifts. since my last post my tranny took a dump. so its sitting as i shop for a new truck/tow rig (looking at Rams and F150s) and will become a trail only/ back up vehicle for a time.


looking at it i think that you could set-up a radius arm sus fairly easy. 3 link would be easier IMO - easier mounts on the frame. for the time being ide jsut SOA rear and link it later when time and $ are more avail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless
As long as I'm asking stupid questions, anyone have recomendataions for what springs to go with? I'd love to run Irocs, but I don't know if I want 36s on my DD and that's the smallest they have for the Hummer rims I'm gonna run.... I might as well aim for the height to clear them, even if I go with something slightly smaller. To be honest, I'm really not sure where to start looking for spring options.
dude just put the 37s on while you have the chance. youll regret it later if you dont. iroks are cool but ride like hammered ass on the road. might not be as bad in heavy durango but in jeep i was in they were so uncomfortable. might as well get boggers.


killerdakota2 - nice job!
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buchvilleman
i had to change the pump since the rack&pinoin pump was high psi and i kept blowing seals in my box.

I was wondering about the pressure since mine had r&p also, cause my pump whines all the time, so i replaced it and it still does it, not to mention that when you turn it whines worse. its fine for a DD and mild trails but i've gotten into some tight trails on rocks where i really struggled cause i couldnt turn with out moving back and forth.

so does the R&P pumps have higher pressure but lower volume or whats the case here?
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Old 07-19-2004, 02:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I've got the recic ball - it's a '98, so I'll see what I can see about the steering. still haven't heard back on any of my many spring PMs.... I think I'm going for leaves though. looking for 4" lift Chev leaves, and then I'll build hangars and shackles to suit.

the only steel dealer I could get ahold of here sucked a huge nut, so I'm going to be buying as little as possible, and probably not here (almost $400 - without delivery - for about 100 feet of various 1x1 square, 2x3 square, 1" wide flat and 3" wide flat).

also still waiting on rear axle info.... might just hit up the boneyard and see what they've got in the way of springs and axles. people around here (in classifieds) seem to be SLOW sometimes

my digi cam also took a big shit, so no pictures of the buildup! aargh! oh well.

getting the truck tomorrow, and bringing it and the front axle to the shop. I'll go from there.....
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Old 07-19-2004, 02:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i'll say it again - radius armed dana 44 + coils.

it can all be had for cheap... why not go that route??


p.s. solidaxledurango - you got any in detail pics of the suspension? I'm curious to see how you have positioned your upper control arms... Thanks
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Old 07-27-2004, 10:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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So my Dak is up on the rack. I've got the IFS all torn out, along with the trans crossmember (needs more driveshaft clearance). I've got coil buckets off some 2wd Ferd, and 4" skyjacker springs on the way. The axle I got came without brakes, and finding them has been more of a pain in the ass that I could have imagined, so I haven't done anything to the axle yet just in case I wind up going for something else - but they *should* be here the end of this week, along with the coils. Then I'll know exactly where I want to put the buckets, and can start putting the front together next week.

In the mean time, about the only thing I can do is fab up my new trans crossmember and link support. Hopefully I can source some heims to get here at the same time as the springs and brakes, and pick up some 1.75x0.25 DOM on my way back here to work. I'm not going to tear into the rear 'till the front is done, since I wouldn't have anything to put together without knowing what height I'm aiming to match.

I'm going to pretty much copy Tom Buban's setup, 'cept I'll be running coils and shocks instead of coilovers, and I'm keeping my stock rear leaves for now, and doing a shackle flip.

I'm going to aim to run 35" BFG M/Ts since this will see 70% on-road duty, but I'm going to leave room for 37s. Hopefully a dumbass acquaintance of mine will wreck his stupid ass and then I'll steal his brand new 36" Irocs.....

I'll try to keep ya posted, but my digi cam is definitely in the shitter and I haven't picked up a disposable 35mm like I've ben planning to, so no pics at all yet... hopefully next week.
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87 AMC Eagle Wagon

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Old 07-28-2004, 04:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless
... still haven't heard back on any of my many spring PMs.... ....
These PMs weren't to me were they? I'm worthless at responding to both email (spam) and PMs....
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Old 07-28-2004, 04:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn_X
...p.s. solidaxledurango - you got any in detail pics of the suspension? I'm curious to see how you have positioned your upper control arms... Thanks

You been here?

http://www.solidaxle.net/durango_conversion/details.htm
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