1st gen Cummins 2x4 to 4x4 conversion

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by jensenkennels

A 4" downpipe will fit without having to swap the front axle from pass. to drivers side.

Not necessarily a swap cause its a 2x4. Is there enough room for the drive shaft on the driver side?

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

I need to know some info. I am going to run my chevy 4500 mated to a Ford 205. I need the parts between the motor and the trans. I beleive that these are the parts that I need, please correct me if I have the wrong info, I don't know that much about dodge or diesel stuff.

- 2nd gen engine adapter (manual or auto)
- Dodge Diesel 4500 bellhousing, clutch fork and bearing retainer (any year)
- Dodge Diesel 4500 input shaft (1.25" aka Heavy Duty)
- New clutch (rated for 350 HP)
- 2nd gen Starter (longer cables blah blah)

[DWitcher]

Add rear main seal and starter too.

[just4cuz]

Originally Posted by jensenkennels

A 4" downpipe will fit without having to swap the front axle from pass. to drivers side.

What he means is you can run a 4" downpipe with a passenger drop axle. Check out his build.

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

I'm running a drivers side for a few reasons:
- I already have a 78 Ford hp 60 with Chevy outers
- I already have a Ford 205 mated to a 4500 (w/all 32 spl)
- I can have more room for exhaust (around the axle, driveshaft, and T-case)
- I like to have the T-case shifters closer to me
- Better driveshaft angles
- I think its cool to be different.

I just hope that it doesn't end up being too tall. I had Atlas spring de-arch and add more spring rate (+400lbs) some springs off of my bro's truck. The spring will be set up for about 4"-6" of lift. I just hate tall trucks I hope everything comes together well.

[just4cuz]

Sounds good, how much of the Chevy is going to be used on this truck again?
Also I know the Chevy outers are stronger than the Fords but enough to bother with the swap?

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

I ended up trading some stuff around, so my K30 will end up with the stock 465 205 it had in it from before, I still need to find a d60 for the chevy (right know its on stands) Also I ended up with a 78 hp 60 from trading stuff around without any outers so that I can run my chevy stuff. (I had just put all new bearings, U-joints, seals, rotors and pads. So my deal was to keep all my new stuff. So I ended up with a 78 ford housing and all chevy outers. I do believe that the chevy/dodge stuff is Way stronger than the ford.
But sorry to say the chevy tow truck has to go.

[dirty_k]

Ready to see what happens with this one, i wouldnt mind a 2wd 1st gen as a project.

[adam5432002]

Any news on this?

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Well I guess my progress has been going pretty good. I've been collecting parts a hole bunch of parts. I think I will do the SAS first then the Performance then the tranny. It's just too much money all up front.

What I have so far:

-nv4500 with a Dodge 1.25" input and chevy 4x4 32 spline out put
-ford np205 mated to a nv4500 tail housing with all 32spline inputs/outputs and with twinstick
-5x.012 injectors
-pyro and boost gauges
-A-pillar twin gauge pods
-78' ford HP D60 with chevy outers (knuckles/ spindles/ rotors) with 35 spline outters Detroit locker 4.10 gears All rebuilt with new parts
-37x13.5x17 Toyo M/T's on KMC 17 x 9.5 corr wheels
-Atlas 54" springs with very slight arch (I don't like tall trucks)
-a chevy (73-80) PSC hydro assist (maybe I can make it work)


What I need:

-HX super 40 Turbo or S300
-4" down pipe and 5" tubing/muffler
-South bend High$ clutch kit
-Cross over steering
-Shocks
-A rear locker (for a D70) or swap in 14 bolt
-Tach and a column mount
-Drive shafts
-Trim the shit out of the fenders
-Tube bumpers front and rear
-Repair front of bed (its bent towards the cab a bit)
-Maybe paint? WTF is up with the paint on these trucks
-Redo that stupidly huge hitch
-Install all this shit


I will post some pics soon

[adam5432002]

Ill be there with u doing a SAS on my 92........ Mine is auto and ext cab long bed. Ill prolly run a HP60 with 410s or 456s. I allready got my buddies dads D60 and A D70 with a locker and 465 gears ready to roll. Along with a 14 bolt with 410s if I go that rought. Im gona run the 37" BFGs I got thow.

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Can someone please tell me if (in that last pic) if the slave cylinder (from the getrac) will work on the (2nd gen) 4500 bellhousing?

[crashnzuk]

I forget who makes it (lakewood?), but there is a conversion bell housing available that will mount an NV4500 in place of a Getrag in a 1st gen. The only thing you change is the bell, the engine adapter, starter, etc all stay 1st gen.
Travis..

[Elwenil]

Lakewood has the big block to New Process/Venture transmissions but I think it's either Advance Adaptors or Novak that has the Getrag to NV4500 conversion kit. Hell, maybe both.

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Cool man, but I am going to run a 2nd gen starter because their pointed up (for driveshaft clearance), Also I believe that the engine adapters are the same, and I already got a bellhousing, So I'm just wondering if the slave cylinder will work?

[BumpyDodge]

I have a 91 W250 up for grabs in the classifieds. If you want any pics/measurements of the stock setup, just ask. Truck's sitting over at my GF's house right now, but I can go over and snap some pictures of whatever you need. (This is PBB, so I'd better clarify that statement: Any pics of parts on the truck you need )

ORD told me you need around 4" of lift to run crossover with the Cummins. Definitely plan on hacking the shit out of the front fenders regardless of lift - anything over 33" likes to scrub at the rear corner on 1st gens when you compress the suspension.

HTH, Matt

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by BumpyDodge

I have a 91 W250 up for grabs in the classifieds. If you want any pics/measurements of the stock setup, just ask. Truck's sitting over at my GF's house right now, but I can go over and snap some pictures of whatever you need. (This is PBB, so I'd better clarify that statement: Any pics of parts on the truck you need )

ORD told me you need around 4" of lift to run crossover with the Cummins. Definitely plan on hacking the shit out of the front fenders regardless of lift - anything over 33" likes to scrub at the rear corner on 1st gens when you compress the suspension.

HTH, Matt

That would be awesome. I would love some pics of your old lady. Ha Ha jk, What is the tranny T-case in yours? If yours is a 4500 I would like some pics of the clutch mechanism. Maybe some shots of her undercarriage? (I mean the trucks) The leaf spring mounts please.

And yes I will be cutting (hopefully not hacking) the truck, I hope to be around 4 to 6 inches of lift probobly with a good amount of push (2 to 4 inches forward on the front) with some tube bumpers. I'm still collecting parts. Got a starter (2nd gen) and 5" exhaust with a 6" tip (I may or may not keep the tip).

Truck is still drivable as of now, so I'm going to take it out for its first trip this weekend. To California City for some riding (dirt bikes).

[crashnzuk]

I thought the engine plate to mount the bell housing was different between the 1st and 2nd gen I was always under the impression that the whole bell/clutch/flywheel set-up was a package deal. I'm pretty sure the second gen has the starter on the pass side and uses a different flywheel.

If you need pics of the stock 4x4 front suspension I can snap some of my truck, it's in my driveway.
Travis..

[BumpyDodge]

Originally Posted by K5runner@hotmail.com

That would be awesome. I would love some pics of your old lady. Ha Ha jk, What is the tranny T-case in yours? If yours is a 4500 I would like some pics of the clutch mechanism. Maybe some shots of her undercarriage? (I mean the trucks) The leaf spring mounts please.

And yes I will be cutting (hopefully not hacking) the truck, I hope to be around 4 to 6 inches of lift probobly with a good amount of push (2 to 4 inches forward on the front) with some tube bumpers. I'm still collecting parts. Got a starter (2nd gen) and 5" exhaust with a 6" tip (I may or may not keep the tip).

Truck is still drivable as of now, so I'm going to take it out for its first trip this weekend. To California City for some riding (dirt bikes).

I'm running the Getrag 360/NP205 - That's what they came with stock. NV4500 is a relatively straightforward swap, but it's not cheap to do unless you get a good deal on a wrecked 2nd gen 4x4 for parts. Unless you also have a first gen 5 speed 4x4, your odds of finding a CTD 29 spline input 205 are pretty slim. Generally the people that tend to do these swaps have a yard full of wrecked trucks - it's not really cost effective to swap in a NV4500 unless you either have most of the parts on hand already, or the Getrag is broken to the point of not worth rebuilding.

Read this guy's information section - good info on what's involved with swapping Getrag to NV4500. ->http://quad4x4.com/NV4500HD%20Conversions.htm

I'll post some pics for you tomorrow evening.

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

I can't get a straight answer from anybody. Some say it will work some say it won't. What i know is that the 2nd Gen's starter is on the drivers side just pointed up not down like the first gen. (My buddy has a 95 CTD with an auto 4x4) And as far as I know Dodge only had one style of bell housing on the 4500 and dodge only used one bolt pattern. AA told me that I could not do the swap with out buying there bellhousing, WTF! I already have a 2nd gen bell housing, a 4500, Tail housing, and a 205. They all bolt together. If some one for sure knows that what I have will NOT work please let me know before I take apart a running truck.

[BumpyDodge]

Two dozen pics of what it looks like with Getrag and a 205.
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...view=slideshow

Everything's more or less as it came stock except for a well worn 2 1/2" lift and an ORD tie rod with Chevy ends.
Quad 4x4's NV4500 info page (linked earlier) lists every part you need. Except for an actual front axle, I think you've got most of it covered.

[dogbender]

Won't work unless you grab everything from the block adapter back. Depth or profile is different. It's the same pattern. Use a fist gen master and the second gen slave with a new poly line. Cut a hole for the new shifter location. Modify trans mount. And then when 5th gear falls off and you have to replace the main shaft you'll wonder why did I go thru all that. Then you'll look for a 6 speed and you'll find out that piece of shit is expensive and wont last either. The only real upgrade is a fuller 6 speed with overdrive and their almost impossible to find. And you will need to run a divorced t-case cause nobody makes a married adapter yet. I did my swap about 10years ago so i'm forgetting about 75% of all the little shit. I just built a crewcab last year and left the gutbag tranny in it.

[K5runner@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by dogbender

Won't work unless you grab everything from the block adapter back. Depth or profile is different. It's the same pattern. Use a fist gen master and the second gen slave with a new poly line. Cut a hole for the new shifter location. Modify trans mount. And then when 5th gear falls off and you have to replace the main shaft you'll wonder why did I go thru all that. Then you'll look for a 6 speed and you'll find out that piece of shit is expensive and wont last either. The only real upgrade is a fuller 6 speed with overdrive and their almost impossible to find. And you will need to run a divorced t-case cause nobody makes a married adapter yet. I did my swap about 10years ago so i'm forgetting about 75% of all the little shit. I just built a crewcab last year and left the gutbag tranny in it.

Thanks for the info. I do have most of the stuff (minus the new clutch) from the engine adapter back (not including the engine adapter that will be the stock 1st gen). Also right now my tranny does NOT have the tail housing bolted up so I want to take some pics of the main shaft. Maybe there's something I can do to help it out. Again I'm running most of this stuff because I already have it.

[dogbender]

Originally Posted by K5runner@hotmail.com

(not including the engine adapter that will be the stock 1st gen).

You will need a second gen engine adapter to work with the 4500. The bolt pattern is the same but the depth or profile is different.