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Old 06-09-2006, 06:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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awsome storeies keep em coming
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Old 06-09-2006, 06:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
the origional buy was the land, houses, mineral and water rights, plus a share of the mine.

it is the BLM that put up the gate and closed access to Panamint City.
and that goes now to ONE individual that is being a _____ about access, in the Ridgecrest office !!!

the actual ROAD to the city is NOT on BLM land as the cherry stem laws do apply-- but-----
BLM land both sides of the road and NPS land at the top of the ridge above the city. But the 'city' townsite and mines are/have been private owned land !!

In the early days there was access to Panamint City from the top/north from Pleasant Canyon and i have heard there was a foot trail down into Death Valley-



the road into Hall Canyon that climbs out of Jail--- if you remember the switchbacks with all the hand laid rock road bed-- laid by the early Chinease.

If you have ever looked down the mines at Skidoo-- up on top of the north end of the Panamint range-- WHERE IN THE HE__ DID THEY GET ALL THE TREE LIMBS TO DO THE SHOREING ????


I guess it used to be the great Mojave Forrest--- now the Mojave Desert !!!

so the road to panamint city:

1. blm doesn't own the road
2. blm owns land adjacent to both sides of the road

so WHO owns the road? is there no legal access for ingress/egress to panamint city for the legal owners?

yes, i am interested in this issue...maybe i can get more involved
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
the origional buy was the land, houses, mineral and water rights, plus a share of the mine.
No.
The purchases of the Independence and the LittleChief were the patented millsite claims, not the minesites. There are no mines or structures on either of the recently purchased patented millsite claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
it is the BLM that put up the gate and closed access to Panamint City.
and that goes now to ONE individual that is being a _____ about access, in the Ridgecrest office !!!
Hector is doing what he believes to be his job and I dont care to argue with him. He claims that he is following the regulations that he is bound by as the local manager.
We are also dealing with Death Valley National Park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
the actual ROAD to the city is NOT on BLM land as the cherry stem laws do apply-- but-----
BLM land both sides of the road and NPS land at the top of the ridge above the city. But the 'city' townsite and mines are/have been private owned land !!
Brian and I asked Hector who owns the road several years ago, the County or BLM.
His response was that they are not sure, but had no choice but to follow through with the guidelines of the stipulation agreement. The agreement says that owners shall not be subject to the restrictions outlined in the agreement. Hector now claims that BLM regulations conflict with the agreement and cannot allow vehicles in the canyon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rockr
so the road to panamint city:

1. blm doesn't own the road
2. blm owns land adjacent to both sides of the road

so WHO owns the road? is there no legal access for ingress/egress to panamint city for the legal owners?

yes, i am interested in this issue...maybe i can get more involved

The BLM is acting as if they have jurisdiction over the road.
Time will tell if they in fact do, or if the county does.

That is the real question, and its that simple. And it will be answered soon.


Thanks for your interest.

kris.
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:28 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I've both read stories and been told that the old road that came in from the backside of the city and dropped into Death Valley has long ago disappeared. The Death Valley side was maintained by scouts as a hiking trail for a few miles, but is sounded like even that got pretty sketchy. I was able to find it on some old maps a couple of years ago.

I'm told the remains of a old fruit tree orchard (forget what kind..) is still up there. Used to sell the fruit to the miners.

As for the road, I understand it is so overgrown now that you will need to cut your way in and that is if you are on foot. Brush, trees and slimy rocks will make progress slow. Might have to check it out this winter.

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Old 06-10-2006, 06:35 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Suprise Canyon

Scouts West had it's Bi-annual tour of Death Valley this last March. We ran a number of trails including Goler Wash and Pleasant Canyon/South Park. Goler and South Park were both doable with stock four wheel drive rigs then. On our last day we headed over to Surpise Canyon to check it out. We parked at the gate and hiked up maybe a 1 1/2 - 2 miles. Today there is no idication that a road ever exisited. The trail is very over-grown too. I've got some buds who ran it just before it closed. I've seen the video and now seens it in person. You will thrash your junk if you ever get a chance to run this trail. Put me in line!
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:59 PM   #31 (permalink)
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it's amazing to see the peoples lineing up to run up to Panamint City--- just to get your picture took below the smokestack to prove you were there !!!
KNOWING you are going to break what ever you bring, and the WORK it will take to do it !!
it will be a full day up/ overnite there and then down the next day !!!!
(just going by what was done in the past !)


But it was always the measure of what you could do to do it-- unique to all other trails--- more difficult than the Hammers, with the element of doing it in a flowing river of COLD water---- when a 'falls' is spoken-- that is FACT !!!

a few of the winch points that were used in the ole days are not there !==
the mine engine is now in the lower mouth of the canyon rather than at the top of fall 7 !

some of the blasting holes are too high to reach for the axle shafts to be used !
NOTHING is as it used to be !!!!





BUT that being said-------------------------------- it can/will be done just as soon as the gate comes down !!!!!!
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Old 06-10-2006, 03:37 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
it's amazing to see the peoples lineing up to run up to Panamint City--- just to get your picture took below the smokestack to prove you were there !!!
KNOWING you are going to break what ever you bring, and the WORK it will take to do it !!
it will be a full day up/ overnite there and then down the next day !!!!
(just going by what was done in the past !)


But it was always the measure of what you could do to do it-- unique to all other trails--- more difficult than the Hammers, with the element of doing it in a flowing river of COLD water---- when a 'falls' is spoken-- that is FACT !!!

a few of the winch points that were used in the ole days are not there !==
the mine engine is now in the lower mouth of the canyon rather than at the top of fall 7 !

some of the blasting holes are too high to reach for the axle shafts to be used !
NOTHING is as it used to be !!!!







BUT that being said-------------------------------- it can/will be done just as soon as the gate comes down !!!!!!


that's right krusty......and then add :

1. DEATH VALLEY...has that eerie ring to it
2. so secluded an area with nobody to be seen after the little town of trona.
3. the ghosts of past looking down and laughing at us busting our balls trying to make it

seldom seen slim
silent george greist
ballarat bob
chris wich
pete augueberry
gus troster
buck johnston
panamint annie
tex brothers
harry briggs
george pipkin
jim barker
ed teagle

yep........it just aint the same up there anymore.........i need a panamint valley trip
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Old 06-10-2006, 03:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusty
it's amazing to see the peoples lineing up to run up to Panamint City--- just to get your picture took below the smokestack to prove you were there !!!
KNOWING you are going to break what ever you bring, and the WORK it will take to do it !!
it will be a full day up/ overnite there and then down the next day !!!!
(just going by what was done in the past !)


But it was always the measure of what you could do to do it-- unique to all other trails--- more difficult than the Hammers, with the element of doing it in a flowing river of COLD water---- when a 'falls' is spoken-- that is FACT !!!

a few of the winch points that were used in the ole days are not there !==
the mine engine is now in the lower mouth of the canyon rather than at the top of fall 7 !

some of the blasting holes are too high to reach for the axle shafts to be used !
NOTHING is as it used to be !!!!







BUT that being said-------------------------------- it can/will be done just as soon as the gate comes down !!!!!!


that's right krusty......and then add :

1. DEATH VALLEY...has that eerie ring to it
2. so secluded an area with nobody to be seen after the little town of trona.
3. the ghosts of past looking down and laughing at us busting our balls trying to make it

seldom seen slim
silent george greist
ballarat bob
chris wich
pete augueberry
gus troster
buck johnston
panamint annie
tex brothers
harry briggs
george pipkin
jim barker
ed teagle

yep........it just aint the same up there anymore.........i need a panamint valley trip
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I walked up to Panamint City 6 times last year.

Yes the route has changed drastically in the last couple of years and I can't see anything with wheels navigating a few of the most narrow sections of the falls. There are many drill holes in critical spots but would need some serious help clearing them of rocks and sand before you could even think about sinking a winch anchor.

After the top waterfall, it's mostly easy going, probably 70% of the road remains. You'll need some serious trimming devices to get through the lower 2/3 of the canyon now.

Chris
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyPabst
I walked up to Panamint City 6 times last year.

Yes the route has changed drastically in the last couple of years and I can't see anything with wheels navigating a few of the most narrow sections of the falls.
Chris
So, are you throwing out a challange here? If the four wheeling comunity gets behind this battle we can all have a shot at this trail. Beyond that there is an oppertunity to influence a precedent setting legal decision. To contribute go to http://www.fopv.org/donate.html cus this is our trail.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:21 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Nope no challenge, just stating a few facts as I see them from being in the canyon. Have you hiked the route at least to the top of the last falls lately? Nothing remotely resembling a reasonably stock, somewhat street legal 4x4 would get up there until the road has been well re-established through the narrows. At least Rocky seems more friendly toward the wheelers these days.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the road but feelings are just that and hold no legal value. I'm aware of the facts, however and it's a road that predates all the enviro BS and therefore should never have been closed.

I'm not sure I support the idea of purchasing the property after the closure however. I think the proper method would have been to help the previous property owners assert their rights and then go ahead with the group buy. Seems to me the courts would consider that it was a well known fact that there was no access at the time of purchase, especially if the court has certain political leanings.

But I've bandied about the idea of building my Kaiser for the sole purpose of bashing a full size up Surprise canyon in hopes of the road opening up again - which I do think will happen. Heck man, the cabins really need the maintenance only available from some serious cargo capacity.

Chris

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Old 06-10-2006, 11:32 PM   #37 (permalink)
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It is a given that no 'stock' 4X can/could do the trip !

MOST of those that would line up have built/modified 4X's--

I recent memory there has been only 1 'stock' jeep to get a picture at the bottom of the smokestack !! (it ment so much to him that he chartered a helicopter to fly the jeep up for a pic and then down again !!!!!)

The drill holes are used as winch anchors by useing a axle shaft stuck in the hole !!
of course the lead rigs will have to 'clear trail', but that is just part of the " FUN " and that is what the passengers are for !!!!!
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Ive seen the pics and video of how this trail used to be...... If/when this trail re-opens, Ill be there with the first group to run it. I wonder if a sizable donation would get the trail opened for at least parts of the year, even a week would be kickass.

Hey Rockr, the history lesson has been great. Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Krusty,

By "reasonably stock", I meant something along the lines of what had been going up there before that still has a mostly stock body and common mods like the Toyotas and Jeeps making the climb before the closure. Now it's gonna take some serious purpose built rigs, probably with minimal sheet metal and incredibly specific suspensions.

I fully support a seasonal or limited opening but that's my emotions talking. It really should be returned to it's original status.

Someone on another board claimed the Jeepers put those holes in with a cordless drill and said they were like 1/2" diameter or something silly like that. Another case of blindly following the propagande from the safety of their armchair. I guess they think the Jeepers also left all the blast marks and opened up the canyon for the stagecoaches in the first place?

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Old 06-11-2006, 11:02 AM   #40 (permalink)
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"back like it used to be " That has been giving us a problem !!
like it used to be WHEN ?????
the county doesn't want and can't afford to make it like it used to be===== semi truck accessable !

ALL we have been asking is for the gate to come down and allow legal access !!!! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN ROAD !!!!!!!!

we can make it 'accessable to vehicles' and not the tourist traffic they are somewhat concerned with !! (tourists don't 'Tread Lightly' or keep their messes picked up !!)



going back thru and cleaning up my puter desk, i ran accross a few pics of one Bender run up the canyon, YEARS ago !!!
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Gohler wash lore

Ran Gohler wash from DV to Panamint in the spring of 1949 in a 1 1/2 ton truck. There was 12 of us boy scouts from the Bay Area. We camped at a Lead Mine owned by a retired Professer from UC Berkley. He had a swimming pool for us to cool off in, and put some Burro steaks on the Barby for our dinner. We passed many mine sites on the road and the flood plain on the Panamint side was still full of house remains, old cars, and stuff that had been washed out.

We wanted to go back the next year, but the Moms stopped the trip due to rumors that we all got our first piece of a** the year before.
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:46 AM   #42 (permalink)
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it is a bit surprizeing -- that no matter how things change with time, they tend to stay the same !!

I will probably not see Panamint City again---- but i have my memories (and a few tattered/ torn pictures).
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:22 AM   #43 (permalink)
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back THEN, sometimes BEFORE BLM 'cleared' an old site, they would let folks know--- it was great diggin thru the old garbage dumps !!!! Blasting powder cans, worn out tools, old cans, woodpecker fence post---- well---- my front yard !-----------
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:51 AM   #44 (permalink)
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you think--- not !!
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Old 06-02-2007, 06:59 PM   #45 (permalink)
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that is cool KRUSTY......the front yard artifacts

and 4X49er....................you ran gholer in 1949.WOW that musta been a blast. i did it as early as 1965 and it was a rough trail back then for sure. WOW, tell us more about the trip.........what, tyou guys "scored" some pussy at vicky's star ranch in BEATTY?
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:01 PM   #46 (permalink)
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hey krusty, what street do you live on? i used to live on ....................ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............. .........oh shit i ferget........over off of mahan near a elementary school.........just north of coronado street.......................i'll ask the wife
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:00 AM   #47 (permalink)
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1 block in off of Inyokern Road-
north end of town--- 1 1/2 block from the base fence
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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My job takes me to Trona once in a while, when I take a 4x4 I like to check out the area. A trip up any of the canyons in the area would be sweet, if you guys ever plan a trip let me know my son and I would be up for that. Growing up our family would check old townsites in the Barstow area and I,ve done the same for my kids it sucks how much stuff has been burnt down or just plain f----d up by mindless assholes you can PM me or D-TOy,JRT or Fatkid knows how to get ahold of us
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:11 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Benttoy...
Im up in the valley once or twice in the summer.
Lemme know what your weekends look like for the next few months and Ill see what comes together.

Just to let you know though, Its too hot to do much until late September. It has already broken 100 in PV and DV has hit the 110's. Anything I do during the summer is going to be over 5-6000ft to get out of the heat. Starting in October I should make it every month until March.

kris.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:10 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
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1 block in off of Inyokern Road-
north end of town--- 1 1/2 block from the base fence
oh ok ..........i remember the area. i worked at sears in the auto dept putting on tire, shocks and alignments in 1974. it was up near downs/ward?

we were on mariposa (re-named from essex) just west of mahan and north of bowman rds.

my parents owned an indian gift shop right at the SE corner of china lake and ridgecrest blvds.

i also worked for the city as a surveyor 1974-78 and then went private sector with a couple local surveyors.


i appologize for getting off-subject.

SUPRISE CANYON
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