Surprise Canyon Suit News...

[OTR]

Just so you hear it here first...

We got dismissed.

Bryan and I are still going over the decision, and although we knew that this was a possibility all along it is a bit of a surprise to get it without the joint hearing we were due to have in August. The court decided that we did not have standing to bring the rs2477 suit. We and our attorneys believe that this decision is wrong, but it is what it is.

We will have more to say on the subject in the near future. We do have some decisions to make so please bear with us. We have been at this for several years and make no decisions without seriously considering all the options...

Do not think that this is over yet.
This is a setback but it is not over. We have not run out of options.

The green press releases are circulating their lies already, so expect some more biased articles in the next few weeks. Remember that this decision has nothing to do with the validity of the road as the greens are saying, this is purely a decision on standing.

We do want to thank all the people and groups/clubs that have supported us over the last few years, especially the TinBenders. We would not have made it this far without all of your help and efforts.
We do realize that there are other major fundraising efforts going on right now but if you have some to give to us, know that 100% of it will go to the cause. Bryan and I take nothing for ourselves, this is purely a volunteer effort for us.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, just know that we may not answer some of them due to the nature of the issues surrounding the case.

Again, we want to thank everyone for your efforts. Also know that we are not giving up and hope for your continued support.

Kris and Bryan.

[cruzila]

It is too bad our legal system does not dispense justice anymore. I have friends that are cops and it is amazing what will get a conviction dismissed. I have faith in the fight regardless. Keep on. I just gave a bunch of money to the Route Dez fight in Eldorado. Give me some time and I'll help here too.

Scott

[BigMike]

Sorry to hear about this set back.

I am not well versed on everything that has taken place, but I know Marlin has donated his personal money and Marlin Crawler has donated money as well, and we really appreciate all the hard work and effort you guys go through.

I firmly believe that Panamint Valley Days was the ONLY event that saved Marlin Crawler during Marlin's very hard times. Marlin would continue to push on eventhough business was so bad, and being able to wheel to Panamint City and stay there, well it was a dream for us all. Those who remember Marlin dressing up like a miner and all the books he read at dinner time will understand his passion for this trail and why he loved wheeling there so much.

I can only pray that my truck will be able to make it to the city legally some day.. This I am definately looking forward to.

Keep up the fight and always remember that although this board is not as popular as other areas in trouble, there are hundreds of countless people who want desperately to enjoy the beautiful canyon in their rigs and the amazing experience it always brings.

Regards,
BigMike

[N24low]

Damn that SUCKS!
Keep up the fight! We are still collecting money every month for FOPV. It's not much but every little bit helps!

[Co Pilot]

We sure got hosed on this one

[OTR]

Like I said...

Originally Posted by OTR

...Do not think that this is over yet.
This is a setback but it is not over. We have not run out of options...

...Also know that we are not giving up and hope for your continued support...

kris.

[Mustard Dog]

Hopefully we'll prevail in the other ways we're dealing with this fight.

We lost this one, but we're fighting a couple other fronts.

[OTR]

Originally Posted by cruzila

It is too bad our legal system does not dispense justice anymore...
...I have faith in the fight regardless. Keep on. I just gave a bunch of money to the Route Dez fight in Eldorado. Give me some time and I'll help here too.
Scott

The legal system is what it is.
And thanks for the offer Scott, every bit helps.

Originally Posted by BigMike

Sorry to hear about this set back.

I am not well versed on everything that has taken place, but I know Marlin has donated his personal money and Marlin Crawler has donated money as well, and we really appreciate all the hard work and effort you guys go through.

I firmly believe that Panamint Valley Days was the ONLY event that saved Marlin Crawler during Marlin's very hard times. Marlin would continue to push on eventhough business was so bad, and being able to wheel to Panamint City and stay there, well it was a dream for us all. Those who remember Marlin dressing up like a miner and all the books he read at dinner time will understand his passion for this trail and why he loved wheeling there so much.

I can only pray that my truck will be able to make it to the city legally some day.. This I am definately looking forward to.

Keep up the fight and always remember that although this board is not as popular as other areas in trouble, there are hundreds of countless people who want desperately to enjoy the beautiful canyon in their rigs and the amazing experience it always brings.

Regards,
BigMike

Tell Marlin that we appreciate everything he has done over the years.
It is for people like Marlin who really understand what the trip to Panamint City is all about that keeps us going.



kris.

[landusepbb]

The actual ruling:
http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com...n%20Ruling.pdf

I rarely post here anymore, but I just have to say, wtf was the lawyer thinking? History is repeating itself, we need to learn from our mistakes rather than perpetuate them. We lost the Robledo Mtns. in NM lawsuit because our lawyer filed a quiet title action and we were found to have no standing.

[OTR]

That NationalParksTraveler guy is hardly an authority. He is WAY green and read into it what he wanted to.

I responded to that exact question in the General 4x4 board. Post is a few pages down or you can look for my posts in my profile.

Ultimately, your New Mexico/Robledo decision was based on a decision in a case called Kinscheriff.

Kinscheriff was based solely on New Mexico State law. California law differs greatly. That is why we believe we have standing.

There is alot more going on with this decision than is visible on the surface, and Im not going to get into the details right now. This is a legitimate claim, and our efforts to resume access are not over.

Sorry to be vague.

kris.

[landusepbb]

Originally Posted by OTR

That NationalParksTraveler guy is hardly an authority. He is WAY green and read into it what he wanted to.

I responded to that exact question in the General 4x4 board. Post is a few pages down or you can look for my posts in my profile.

Ultimately, your New Mexico/Robledo decision was based on a decision in a case called Kinscheriff.

Kinscheriff was based solely on New Mexico State law. California law differs greatly. That is why we believe we have standing.

There is alot more going on with this decision than is visible on the surface, and Im not going to get into the details right now. This is a legitimate claim, and our efforts to resume access are not over.

Sorry to be vague.

kris.

Nobody is quoting or even referring to the guy in the article, all that was referenced wa THE DECISION ITSELF. And if you think you have standing on a QT action you better start talking to more lawyers. I'm done here, shoot yourself in the foot for all I care, just trying to help having been down a similar road. And the Robledo case was also in federal court, pretty much any standard that was applied there applies here.

[OTR]

Originally Posted by landuseorc

Nobody is quoting or even referring to the guy in the article, all that was referenced wa THE DECISION ITSELF. And if you think you have standing on a QT action you better start talking to more lawyers. I'm done here, shoot yourself in the foot for all I care, just trying to help having been down a similar road. And the Robledo case was also in federal court, pretty much any standard that was applied there applies here.

No need to get upset over this. I appreciate what you have done for land use.

I understand exactly what happened in your case. Your case was decided as all rs2477 cases are, on the laws of the State which the claim lies. Many of the cases on which your case was decided were falling back on the Kinscheriff decision. Kinscheriff explicitly relied on New Mexico law as written.

As I said, New Mexico law differs from California law on the subject. It has just never been tested in the way we have here. This is not a failure, we are not shooting ourselves in the foot. Like I said, this isnt over.

Read the complaint and motions before you jump to conclusions.

You dont have to be done here...

kris.