Is a solid axle a must have for expedition?

[Hop]

I own a 2005 Frontier. I'm turning it into an expo rig one step at a time. The main concern of mine is the suspension. Is a solid front a must, or will heavily modified IFS be a better bet? The aftermarket support for the 2nd gen Nissan trucks is appalling. AFAIK, there isn't an 05 plus Frontier with a solid front axle. So, the question is, swap in a titan front with lots of travel, or drop the dough for the SAS?

Thanks for the help. Hope I haven't done anything flame worthy.

[Elwenil]

I would say no, but it depends on what you intend to do and where you go. I personally feel that a lot of Stock IFS systems are on the weak side when compared to a solid axle and when you lift an IFS it seems to cause more problems than it solves. A solid axle swap is a lot easier to do for most backyard fabricators while re-engineering an IFS system takes a bit more knowledge, tools and equipment. If what you intend to do doesn't really need a lot of lift, or heavy weight capacity, then I'd stick with the stock suspension. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. However, if you think you may need heavier suspension or axles for either large, heavy tires or for supporting a lot of weight from gear, bumpers, winches etc, then I'd look into a SAS. Mainly just because it's simpler, and a bit more rugged that IFS systems. But I wouldn't do a swap just because I, or anyone else thinks it's necessary. Do it only if YOU think it's necessary for what you plan to tackle with your rig.

[RoosterBooster]

i completely agree with Elwenil
i`m still in the planing stage of my recreational "expedition" vehicle but i actually plan to go with A-arms in all 4 corners ....
everything is a compromise...only you know where you are willing to make them.

i like speed, sandy washes, gravel roads, sand dunes, forest roads.... so i`m willing to compromise on the rock crawling ability

[maxyedor]

4wd is, solid axel is not.

[WILLD420]

Most modern IFS front's are pretty good as long as you live within the parameters it was designed for. If you like jumping your truck, then you have to plan accordingly. If you want a rock buggy, buy a Dana 60. If you just plan on driving roads and trails that are pre-existing and don't require lockers at both ends. The IFS will probably last a long time. You could always search the weaknesses and take spare parts with you. That's what I'm doing and I have a Dana 44 solid axle. I carry shafts, bearings, seals and hubs. I will eventually even carry balljoints with me, since that is the one thing you cannot limp home with when it breaks. I will very shortly acquire a used pitman arm as well since those don't take up much space and a broken one will ruin your trip.

[Hop]

hm. i am going to be doing much more than the stock suspension can handle. I'm from utah, and love canyoneering so i suspect much of my expedition will be in and around moab and arizona. another stupid noob question...

where can i learn to fab and weld?

[fordman1978]

college classes. or if you have any friends that weld and do fab have them teach you a little.

[Elwenil]

I agree on the college welding classes. Night classes here at the local community college are dirt cheap (under $200) and you get good advice and practice. If the price seems a bit steep, trust me, at current steel and welding rod prices, you will burn through 4 times that amount in a 6 week course.

[Clemsonkrawler]

Originally Posted by Hop

hm. i am going to be doing much more than the stock suspension can handle. I'm from utah, and love canyoneering so i suspect much of my expedition will be in and around moab and arizona. another stupid noob question...

where can i learn to fab and weld?

Where you at in Utah?? Theres a lot of us that have expedition style rigs around there. Check out www.rockymountainextreme.com for a more local guys into fabbing and wheeling.

I have a solid axle under my Tahoe. I chose to go with a solid axle since the drivetrain in my rig was just all around worn out. With 190k on it, all the bushings, bearings, tie rod ends, ball joints, CVs and even rear axle were ready to be replaced. That was a substantial expense for stock parts. I decided to just upgrade instead of replace. It was money well spent and my rig is WAY more capable than it ever was in stock form with the new 6" of lift and 35's.

[Hop]

Originally Posted by Clemsonkrawler

Where you at in Utah?? Theres a lot of us that have expedition style rigs around there. Check out www.rockymountainextreme.com for a more local guys into fabbing and wheeling.

I have a solid axle under my Tahoe. I chose to go with a solid axle since the drivetrain in my rig was just all around worn out. With 190k on it, all the bushings, bearings, tie rod ends, ball joints, CVs and even rear axle were ready to be replaced. That was a substantial expense for stock parts. I decided to just upgrade instead of replace. It was money well spent and my rig is WAY more capable than it ever was in stock form with the new 6" of lift and 35's.

I'm from kaysville, and will be moving back.. after my tour in korea. right now i'm in Idaho at MHAFB. i'm a lurker at RME. maybe i'll go there more often when i move back and make friends who can help me out, lol. i almost bought a waggy on there to turn into a rig, but i decided i want to use my dd.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

GM ifs comes in many flavors and the only one I can say will hold up under an expedition type vehicle is the 14 bolt IFS 9.25" unit used in diesel 4x4 K2500 and K3500 series trucks, the lower control arms are forged and the axles n cv joints are much heavier.

[miniyota]

my commander has 32" tires, V8 power and IFS, its surviving, i'm going to go up to 33-34" tires and i know the ifs will survive that.

IFS is a smoother ride, and if you have limited slip or lockers you won't get stuck. i think a lot of it has to do with driver style and skill.

[winkosmosis]

IF control arms are angled so that when the wheel hits a bump it moves back. A solid axle with control arms and a lift gets pushed forward. The bigger the lift the more forward it's pushed. That means more force gets transmitted back to the chassis.... Something to consider

[TurboNerd]

Originally Posted by maxyedor

4wd is, solid axel is not.

IMHO, an expedition vehicle isn't an extreme rock crawler - or an extreme anything for that matter. Priority #1 is getting you there & home reliably. To me that means keeping the tires as big as necessary, but as small as possible (less stress on drivetrain = reliability & better MPG). Locker in the back will do more good than big tires. IFS is under-rated. I think it behaves better than solid axle in a lot of conditions: On road, sand, jumping, fire roads & mud (less likely to diff/axle-drag). I've had several 4WD vehicles now - and the one that is the most fun to wheel expedition style is the one that's got IFS, and is mildly built:

[johnwiseman]

Expo can be pretty extreem. Sometimes you have to go up the same crap the crawlers do and instead of turning around and heading for the trailer you go anouther 100 miles. In truth if you dont plan on doing anything crazy the ifs is going to work fine and more expo rigs see time as DD then crawlers, as well as, typically dont get trailered so they gota tote themeslves (or insome cases the crawler too) the ifs may keep you a bit comfier on the road as well. I am not keeping it but I am pretty much an over build freak.

[Drummer79]

Originally Posted by fordman1978

college classes. or if you have any friends that weld and do fab have them teach you a little.

x2
I own a grading and excavation company and was always spending $ paying someone to fab parts for broken dump trucks and machines. Also I wanted to get more hardcore than bolt on stuff for my Jeep so I took a welding class at night at the community college. I'm still not great like some on this site but I do almost all of my welding and fab work on the equipment and the absolutely all of it on the Jeep now. Still slowly gathering tools though for heavier fab work but my gas powered welder and torches and grinders handle almost everything I need.

[b1gsleep]

Has anyone ever really upgraded their ifs to a stronger unit? I have a d35 that I have had minimal problems with, but have never thought of upgrading to a more stout ifs. Always thought that sas was the only way to go.

[miniyota]

the commanders and grand cherokee's are supposed to have stronger IFS components then 1/2 ton chevy's. that's coming from the jeep engineers. the CV joints and shafts are pretty beefy.

Originally Posted by b1gsleep

Has anyone ever really upgraded their ifs to a stronger unit? I have a d35 that I have had minimal problems with, but have never thought of upgrading to a more stout ifs. Always thought that sas was the only way to go.

[johnwiseman]

The desert racing guys do. I think most stick to swaping in solid fronts for the sake of simplicity. It is pretty well documented, so there are really few unanswered questions out there. Upgrading an ifs could be really complicated and therefore few have done it meaning not much is known or documented. Implying you would somehow have to get race teams to divulge possibly senceative info about their rigs. Not a good bet. You could, yes. Certinly upgrade one. But unless you have a fairly magic combo of miracels, allowing the new one to more or less drop in. you may end up with a nightmare of very custom half shafts and mounts. not to mention the size of the new unit may be an isue. If and when the ifs gears break (I know solids break too) they are gona be a bitch to replace withthe changes and such. I wouldn't do it. But maybe your braver man then I. A braver man with a lot more time and money on his hands.

[1LegLance]

Overlanding is about the journey...and keeping the vehicle going since you are dependant on it...
You are concerned about wgt, mileag and the ability to repair or replace broken parts since you are far from home..
When overlanding you look at a trail and ask if it is worth the risk of ending your trip vs a bypass or another route...
Most quality IFS can go most places with driver skill and no ego attached along with a healthy dose of reality that you are "overlanding" vs "crawling".
Just my thoughts....

[roscoFJ73]

I dont think whether its SFA or IFS is all that important if the system is stock and known to be reliable.
I think true expedition rigs are kept fairly close to stock to make them easier to get parts and repair in remote localities.

If you think your proposed expo rig has a weak front end or any other serious weak point that needs modifying , its probably time to rethink the vehicle altogether.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

The GM 1/2 half ton 8.5" IFS is weak when compared to the 3/4-1.0 tone 14 bolt case 9.25" IFS.

Some later Dodge trucks have the same carriers and gears as the GM 14 bolt case 3/4-1.0 ton 9.25" IFS, NOTE: ARB frt/locker numbers are same for the 2 diffs.

So, GM 9.25" IFS is the perfect upgrade to many IFS setups I have not seen or heard of a stronger IFS unit out there, but always open to correction.

[mrstang01]

Interesting, I'm building a K1500 Suburban for Expo work. Debating the upgrade path now.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

There are more than a few suspension lift kits for the K1500 but not the K2500/3500. Suspension can be tuned for a better off road ride by changing out torson bars to suit application. K2500/3500 is already higher than K1500.

A 2" drop x-member is available for the front IFS differential too.

How much lift is desired is a personal choice, but I would not go more than 2" unless building something like the FINS do with giant floaters and custom fender flares to cover those giant tires.

[Syncros]

Not a must have, depends on what vehicle, and what you want to do with it. I like IFS for rough gravel roads, thats about it.