73-91 suburbans as base for family expo rig?

[Nosaj]

IN ADVANCE: if this question has been asked " I AM SORRY FOR ASKING AGAIN" before you flame me, could someone give me a link the amount of info available here is mind boggeling. I just couldn't find it.

I am seriously lookin into gettin a chevy/gmc suburban here real soon as a means of a family expedition rig and dd. My wife and I work from home so we aren't always in it driving around and burnin gas but....I am getting about 16/17 in my 4runner now and fully understand that the burb is almost double the weight of my current rig. After much deliberation and need for more space I have come to this decision for the family expo rig.

My question is this I have found anywhere from 350,383's,and 454's as far as gas motors for this rig w/ at best 13 mpg. I have heard both good reviews and alot of bad ones for the 6.2l diesel motor I come across for this truck. Do these diesel motors suck real bad? Seems like they were the motor of choice for the US military in their m1010's. So whats the deal w/ these are they reliable or more fuel efficient? I'm asking b/c I find them all over the place and if one was wanting to build a serious expedition vehicle than mpg is certainly an issue. I'm also trying to stay away from a rediculously expensive motor swap up front would want to use something as is for awhile before going that route. Any direction or advice would be a blessing to me my family and my wallet.

[tripm]

I have read the bad stuff, but here's my experience.

My neighbor has an 83 chevy quad cab dually with the 6.2, and a banks turbo charger on it. It gets between 18 and 22mpg. It is so nice to drive, that I drive it as often as I can. Sometimes a week straight, sometimes not for a month. I've done 100's of miles at a time, and a year ago he did 3400 miles in one week in a trip down south. The engine has been rebuilt, and wasn't really great until it had 40k miles on it. The ip was rebuilt, and it may have a later glow plug system on it.

There is also a rover guy with a 6.2 in his truck. I believe his experience is the same as mine.

I think in a burb it would be a great truck, however, you'd need to know you don't have one of the bad ones, and no telling how you determine which one is good and which is bad.

Good luck.

[Nosaj]

thank you. Looks like I'm going to get that dieselplace.com 70page booklet to do the read up. it is a toss up on finding the good from the bad.

but yeah 18-20mpg in a truck that size is like a miracle. the excursions I don't think even do that much. and if they do they are way outta my price range right now.

[PAToyota]

There have been issues with the 6.2, but it does have the benefit of good mileage. Check out www.thedieselpage.com for some good information on upgrades, fixes, and known problems with the engines.

Obviously, there is a tradeoff and you aren't going to be getting the power of the Cummins and PowerStroke engines. But they certainly aren't going to get the mileage of the 6.2/6.5 either.

[crashnzuk]

Despite the bad rap the 6.2/6.5 diesels get, I'd run one. Find a nice unit that doesn't look like it's been used to tow heavy/frequently and I think you'll be good. If you can't find a nice diesel, I'd try to find a nice 350 TBI. Get a 3/4 ton with a full float rear if possible (might be hard to find). Otherwise, get the newest, nicest one you can find/afford.
Travis..

[any4x]

I had a 1984 4x4 Suburban with the 6.2L Diesel no turbo and Loved it. With a 6 inch lift 4.10 gears and 35” BFG mud terrains I was getting 18 mpg freeway. Power was ok by it self but don’t try pulling much of a trailer behind it in the mountains. It was surprisingly good off road for it size and never let me down. It had 189k miles on it and running good when I sold it. Keep in mind if you do get a diesel and decide the diesel just is not for you it’s a real easy swap to put a 350 in it.

[Nosaj]

thanks y'all this helps I did come across the dieselpage.com in my search and looks like I'll need to go ahead and shell out the 20bucks to get his book on those motors.

any4x I would imagine that would go vice a versa for swapping the 350 for the 6.2/6.5L ( i did find these motors and you can buy crate motors from military surplus all day long but if you were to rebuild one right its gets pricey I have seen real nice crate motors done right but they are going for like 5800 and rebuilding one w/ the right stuff isn't much less)

but in the vehicles for sale section this dude had this one for sale:
/forum/vehicles-trailers-sale/724982-1985-subruban-1-tons-alcans-4200-a.html

Looks real nice already w/ 1ton axels and other mods

I sure would like to have a nv4500 and a diesel motor tho. I just can't seem to get behind all these auto trans.

there was also another rig for sale I think it was a 72 burb but he swapped a dodge motor and running gear in it. Looks sweet tho

/forum/vehicles-trailers-sale/723221-1972-suburban-4x4-one-ton-cummins.html

I just know nothing about diesel motors except the little I've learned so far I'll keep doing my homework. Thanks guys for all your advice. I'll be sure to post what I end up with tho.

[cruiser guy]

If I were looking at American made diesel motors a Cummins 5.9 would be WAY out in front. I think it is a FAR superior engine over the GM engines.

I would think seriously if I really wanted a non-turbo'd diesel. In my opinion not having a turbo is leaving 1/2 the engine behind!!

I ran for probably 15 years non-turbo'd and since being turbo'd I'd NEVER run non-turbo again!!

[WILLD420]

I've been around quite a few 6.2's back in the day. They are slow, but the MPG is incredible. The cummins engine is great, but everything associated with them is $$$.

A rebuild isn't that hard if you've ever done a gas engine. Just more parts.

Don't be afraid of them, but don't ever buy one that has been overheated unless you are getting such a good deal you can replace the engine and still have it be a good deal.

Read up on them. The smaller exhaust valve heads didn't seem to crack as often as the big valve heads. Keeping them cool was most of the battle. If it doesn't hold oil pressure and it was driven by a little old man, give it to a teenager for a week or two and let them run the crap out of it. As long as it doesn't overheat, they like to be run out every once in awhile.

I'm on the fence right now, but my Ramcharger will probably be going Diesel in the next few years and the 6.2 is a very viable option for me. 200HP and 350lb/ft would be the same as my 360 tbi and get 3x the mileage.

[cruiser guy]

Originally Posted by WILLD420

I've been around quite a few 6.2's back in the day. They are slow, but the MPG is incredible. The cummins engine is great, but everything associated with them is $$$

I've had the Cummins 5.9 and I never had to do any work to it other than oil changes (I can't remember if it was hydraulic lifters or not so it may have needed the occasional valve adjustment). Friends of mine talked about $3000 injection pump rebuilds on their GM's and also cracked heads. I'll stick with a Cummins and possibly more expensive parts if I need them less often!! Look at it this way as well, Cummins builds ONLY diesel engines, has for years, GM is still learning how (we won't even talk about the GM 5.7 "diesel")!

The Cummins pulled like a mule and the mileage was impressive. If I were putting a domestic made diesel in my Land Cruiser it would be a Cummins. I wouldn't even consider the International (Ford) or the GM diesels.

[Nosaj]

Last night I was on the phone w/ a buddy of mine who is a diesel mechanic and has been for a long time between when he was in the navy and now in the civilian world. He thru some serious caution to me about the 6.2L said they were a diesel motor built on a gas block that was never intended and/or designed for that type of compression and head blew left and right. Now he is a huge fan of diesel and prefers it over gas but he used extreme caution when talking about the 6.2L. ( he did tell me he knew how to get 18-20 mpg out of a 350 w/ basic sweat equity as he called it and a few basic mods ) but when I told him I found a rig w/ 60's upfront and 14 in the rear he was like "well maybe not w/ the drag of that heavy equipment" then he tried to bring me back down to earth.
So I have spent many of the last several years pourin over the mags videos and pirate and to have the dual purpose trail rig/expo rig idea in my head. I wanted dang 1ton running gear so I had no weak links but w/ what I would prob be using the expo rig for (dd/expo'n across the country mild to medium wheeling when we get there) he said the 3/4 running gear is plenty especially since I'm not pulling stuff w/ it and the heavy duty stuff was for rock buggies.
So I might go w/ the the 350 for now work it so I can get as much economy out of it as I can and find a izuzu turbo diesal ud motor or something similar (at junkyard) and rebuild it on a stand then perhaps a good nv4500 or he mentioned a six speed trannie (tho I haven't seen or heard of one) and swap it in. I do want a diesel especially so I can convert to veggie or biodiesel.
Now he said a couple things that were neat tricks w/ any motor one of which was caterpillar antifreeze as my coolant b/c it had a -40 freeze rate and (+135 0r 235 I can't remember it's all a blur wife got pissed I was sitting outside for 1hr and half talking trucks). So when I'm done w/ all this then I'll put the mercedes turbo diesel in my 4runner LOL.

Thanks y'all still for the imput I'll keep ya posted.

[Nosaj]

Ya'know it really burns me up tho....

We wouldn't be having this discussion if they would give us the same dang rigs that are available to everyone else in the dang world.

Fat pocketed "powers that be" and all those who put a halt on importing any type of reliable all purpose diesel vehicles. Buying up every patent for free energy and high mileage vehicles and shelving it just so they can have power of the american consumer and everyone else for that matter. They have had the means to produce 100mpg vehicles for over 75yrs and they come on t.v. saying "oooo 32mpg and only $30,ooo plus tax + then we'll tax you some more"

I love america too much just to up n move. It gets more tempting everyday tho.

ok now back to our regularly scheduled programming (had to vent)

[Stuntopts]

WOW! Did I stumble upon the "Conspiracy Theory" thread? Your buddy is mistaken about the 6.2/ 6.5 being based on a gas engine block. He's confusing them with the old Oldsmobile diesels that were junk from the get go. If you take good care of ANY engine, no matter the manufacturer, it should be very reliable for many years and miles. By the way, are flying saucers real too or is it another gov't cover- up?

[Nosaj]

I think they were schemed up as a form of disinformation...LOL

but I hear ya about the 6.2/6.5L I've been reading up more on them. I think I'm going to get that dieselpage book that guy has and keep reading up. From what I understand the 6.5L isn't all that bad if it's rebuilt right. So it always comes back to dang cost. Just like the old addage "all it takes is money" but certainly seems by the for sale thread thats something everyone is in short supply of.

I will be taking donations soon for the "help Jason build a rig for the end times" not for profit organization.

j/k

[crashnzuk]

I don't know why you're hung up on rebuilding one. If you get one that runs good, had good maintenance and wasn't used to death you should be fine. That shouldn't be too hard to find in a burb. Keep looking til you find a soccer mom burb.
Travis..

[Nosaj]

thanks man I will heed your advice I did find one here in Ga. w/ the 6.2L low miles for 2500 I was going to go check it out anyways.

[cruiser guy]

Originally Posted by Stuntopts

Your buddy is mistaken about the 6.2/ 6.5 being based on a gas engine block. He's confusing them with the old Oldsmobile diesels that were junk from the get go.

I'd agree with this. The old 5.7 "diesel", if you can even find one anywhere, was built on a gas block (imagine how the displacement is even the same as a 350!!) and had a life span of about 60,000 miles if driven by a little old lady only on sunny sundays!!
In my opinion that engine from GM did more to turn off the average North American from diesels than anything else.
Though I still think that the 6.2 or early 6.5 would not be near the top of my choices of engines.

[90ctd]

I'm starting to build up a 84 chev with a 6.2L and have done quite a bit of research, through the internet and a buddy from work who was a diesel mechanic for the army in the 80's and mid-90's and knows alot about the 6.2. He advised me to stay away from the pre-88 motors in favor of the newer model with a serp belt system and a one-piece rear main seal, and the extra 15hp and 45 ft/lbs doesn't hurt either. These motors can be very reliable with proper maintainance and a few after market add-ons. The addition of a stud girddle (dieselservice.com is the only place i've found these) to help avoid low end cracking and a dual cog timing system will also help alleviate wear on the chain with is another common cause of failure. The addition of a turbo wastegated at 15lbs of boost along with 18:1 compression pistons will provided you with a powerful reliable engine, freshly rebuilt for cheaper that a cummins. Don't get me wrong i love my cummins, my DD is a 90 cummins 3/4 ton putting down around 375 horse and over 800 ft/lbs but when it comes down to it they are expensive and hard to come as far as parts motors, the 6.2L can be had cheap and as availible over seas through military bases and can be built into a reliable motor for around 1500, not including the initial cost of the motor, but they can be had very cheap, I picked up one out of a 90 with bad compression for 50 bucks. Good luck with the burb, it should be a very solid platform.

[BigKofJustice]

The 6.2/6.5 is a workhorse. And on the upside they're cheap to fix and maintain if you do the work yourself, although that goes with any engine.

6.2 NA doesn't have any really outstanding issues, the same with the 6.5 NA models. My experience has been with HMMWV's and H1's, these trucks have the least problems.

Now the early turbo 6.5's you'll have a few issues, the main one being the lack of cooling on the rear cylinders due to the bad block cast's/design work that wasn't worked out until 99 or 00. If you have a high mileage turbo 6.5 chances are you don't have a defective block.

When GM went to the duramax, AM General / GEP brought out the 6.5 design and re-engineered it with thicker caps, stronger connecting rods, stronger metals and a new block design. I have one of these blocks in my rig, and it's a trooper.

The other issue with the turbo 6.5's is the fuel injection pump mounted solenoid driver / PSD/PMD. They're usually mounted next to the turbo and for all intents and purposes become wear and tear items where you are replacing one every few years. Usually you drive a turbo 6.5 until it goes, and then you install a remote mount kit with a heatsink away from any heat sources for a few hundred.

So in short, there aren't many issues with the 6.2/6.5 NA. The 6.5 turbos can be hit or miss depending on the specific block cast.

The current version of the 6.5 Turbo, the 6500 optimizer is still in widespread use today in the military, including the new AM General ECV II [a 250hp version].

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

May 1999 is start of enhanced blocks in GM products so May 99 forward are best choices. I'm thinking the best bang for the buck is a May 1999 or newer 2500 4x4 burb w/6.5td as a great platform if you don't mind the IFS.

Link below will shed more light on this.

http://www.gm-diesel.com/diesel/vbul...ead.php?t=7248

[dbreid]

I use mine for what you seem to be after. I have an 89 2500 with the 5.7L. 35" tires, slight lift, 12K winch, and a sleeping platform in it (storage under it, and a full double mattress (not an air mattress) which fits with the middle seats "up".

I only usually have two people in it (myself and my girlfriend), but we have done extensive trips in it. It is set up to be able to sleep in everything from the Burger King parking lot if we are tired, to on the edge of a canyon far from civilization. It can carry enough fuel and water to last a fair while. I even added a hot water shower under the hood.

Here we are in Monument Valley:



I love the old square body style. WAY more room inside, and built like warships.

[redromo]

That's a nice looking rig.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

I've got a '72 that I was going to put a Cummins into and convert to 4WD. It's a complete roller minus engine and trans, and not in too bad of shape for this kind of project. Somebody come pick it up. Bring beer.

[widmayer123]

Set a sub and be happy!
This will be my tow rig/Camping/hunting rig.
This is my 2nd one, It has taken a long time to build but it is worth it.
I can fit my family and all my camping gear inside.

Check out my build

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Think MAY 1999 and newer gm/chevy burbs, vans, 3500's up to 2002 with 6.5td enhanced motor. This motor is not the ones Hummer used up until around 2003-4 which were not enhanced.

Seen, 2001 & 2 vans just breaking 100k w/6.5td for $3k at auto traders site. Then consider you'll have a better auto transmission 4L80e to go with it too.

Thinking going w/enhanced 6.5 td will be mostly bolt in w/o lots of fab work.