Suburban Expedition rig- what to look for?

[1speedlos@gmail.com]

Hey everybody,

I'm new to expo trucks, and I'm hoping to get a bit of help. My wife and I are looking to trade the Jeep for a vehicle we can do some North American expeditions in. She's pretty sold on A Suburban, I'm insistant on diesel (future wvo conversion.)
Anyone have some insight on stuff we should look for? We won't have a lot of budget for this, but I'm not opposed to doing stuff like replacing axles later on.
Any advice is welcome!

Los

[The Adam Blaster]

Some may have different opinions on the subject, but i'd suggest staying close to stock with minimal lift. Less breakage, more reliable, and much easier to get replacement parts for it when things do break or wear out.
If you get the diesel version, i'm pretty sure the trucks already come rated as a 3/4 ton so you likely won't have to change out the axles if you keep the thing smaller than a monster truck.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Suggest 1999 6.5 td K2500 4x4 produced from MAY on as they come w/enhanced blocks so do not suffer the cracked block failures. They already have dual stats & HP water pump.

If going auto the 4L80e has lots of updates over previous years = less failures. A B&M super cooler w/fan and stat control helps too.

Drive train would have 9.25" frt gearset, back would be a 14 bolt ff 10.5" same as K3500.

One important mod is a remote injection pump driver and large cooling plate, little pricey but saves lots of trouble down the line.

[Colorado Ron]

If your looking for long range reliability for expedtion travel, let me save you some time. Forget the 6.5. Yea I know, I didnt listen either. I thought, sure, its gotta be more reliable than people are complaining about. NOPE! Dont do it. Buy a suburban and do a cummins swap if you have to. Please take my word for it, its not worth the headache. Parts are NOT plentiful. They are NOT reliable. Im doing a cummins swap as we speak, so trust me on this one. 4 major trips, 4 major breakdowns. I was able to limp home everytime, but still was expensive fixes.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Originally Posted by Colorado Ron

If your looking for long range reliability for expedtion travel, let me save you some time. Forget the 6.5. Yea I know, I didnt listen either. I thought, sure, its gotta be more reliable than people are complaining about. NOPE! Dont do it. Buy a suburban and do a cummins swap if you have to. Please take my word for it, its not worth the headache. Parts are NOT plentiful. They are NOT reliable. Im doing a cummins swap as we speak, so trust me on this one. 4 major trips, 4 major breakdowns. I was able to limp home everytime, but still was expensive fixes.

Sorry, to hear of all your failures w/6.5 but I've found most 6.5 owners don't research to upgrade the weak areas and get the same attitude that the 6.5 just sux. When GM did finally get it right (MAY 99) they decided to introduce the 6.6 duramax but ran the enhanced 6.5 for a few more years when AM general took it on with the military still using the enhanced version too.

The enhanced 6.5's are every bit as good as a 12 valve cummins, I own a few 12 valves too.

I criss cross American on a regular basis and have no problems whatsoever.

Keeping in mind things do wear out and need to be rebuilt like the 4L80e (usually fails at 120k) but once rebuilt w/good aftermarket goodies like TransGo, kevlar, carbon fiber and given a BIG cooler it will 2 to 3 times it original build from GM.

Cummins conversion is best way on conversion, but there are newer enhanced 6.5's that will work just as well...........and trouble free too.

If the gm 6.5 is really bad why is it such a popular marine application in its' 400 HP configuration?

I spent time and effort to get even the gm tech training manuals for the 6.5td, and all the shop manuals for my application. Oh, and I have a nice OBD2 scan tool w/device controller w/real time data access via laptop.

Number 1 problem with the 6.5td with computer driven IP is the pump driver, but lots of individuals get conned into buying and new IP pump too when a pump driver would have fixed the problem. Remote mount IP driver is the fix I have 2 remotes for this reason, when 1 fails I just plug in the other 1.

[maximumrob]

Why not a used '07 4WD? It ain't diesel, but hell, they get 20mpg on the highway these days (I have one). You stated it's purpose will be for touring N. America and quality gasoline is plentiful.

Lift it 6" (a readily available lift), run 35" all-terrains, lock the rear, and you have a pretty darn good truck that'll go a lot of places reliably.

How hard do you want to wheel?

[johnwiseman]

I know, everyone acks lie gas is the pleuge. In fact as far as wheelin NA. I am not sure but i wouldsay gas is cheaper and certinl more accesable in rural areas. I used to live about 1k miles on the backwater side of bfe. there was no such thig as deisle for like 100 miles. 2 gas stations. all deisle owners had to truck theirs in on these rediculous tanks in their trucks to run their farm equipment. Some of the bigger farms had very large tanks on property. But i never saw a fuel truck come through to fill one up. If your planning on wheelin in North America I would stick to the gas. I have seen them run on propane too. And ethanal conversions are out there too. Then you could disstill your crn chips and make gas to get out. lol!

[maximumrob]

Originally Posted by johnwiseman

I know, everyone acks lie gas is the pleuge.

I don't understand what that sentence means. Pleuge?


EDIT: AH! You meant to write, "acts like gas is the plague." Now I get it.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

All things being equal a diesel will always get better fuel efficiency. Lots of torque is available at lower rpm's with a diesel. However, there are some great engine builders building gas engines producing lots of torque at lower rpm's too but can't get the mpg's loaded the diesel do.

IMHO!

[cruiser guy]

Diesel is the way to go for hauling.

If I had to use a domestic engine the Cummins would win out every time. They pull like a mule and are as reliable as anything else out there.

[1speedlos@gmail.com]

For now, I'll probably try and find a diesel 'burb that's in good shape, and look at converting to a Cummins. I'd like to stay fully mechanical.
As far as the diesel v gas, the reasons are environmental, as we plan on running waste vegtable oil whenever possible. I understand and appreciate the difficulty with finding diesel in some places, but we hope to mitigate that with carrying capacity.
Thanks again for all the responses, and I look forward to reading more!

Los

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Originally Posted by 1speedlos@gmail.com

For now, I'll probably try and find a diesel 'burb that's in good shape, and look at converting to a Cummins. I'd like to stay fully mechanical.
As far as the diesel v gas, the reasons are environmental, as we plan on running waste vegtable oil whenever possible. I understand and appreciate the difficulty with finding diesel in some places, but we hope to mitigate that with carrying capacity.
Thanks again for all the responses, and I look forward to reading more!

Los

WVO is a good idea if supply is good. Consider, algae as the future of bio-diesel and you can make your own.

Keeping with mechanical system is a good bet, but make sure injection pump is getting proper lube or it will fail in short order. I have seen home brew bio-diesel corrode internals on all kinds of IP's then other mixes because of poor lube quality of the brew. Research 2cycle oil as an additive to any diesel especially 15ppm low sulfur diesel.

Good luck w/your project!

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Originally Posted by Colorado Ron

If your looking for long range reliability for expedtion travel, let me save you some time. Forget the 6.5. Yea I know, I didnt listen either. I thought, sure, its gotta be more reliable than people are complaining about. NOPE! Dont do it. Buy a suburban and do a cummins swap if you have to. Please take my word for it, its not worth the headache. Parts are NOT plentiful. They are NOT reliable. Im doing a cummins swap as we speak, so trust me on this one. 4 major trips, 4 major breakdowns. I was able to limp home everytime, but still was expensive fixes.

You get it done yet, or?

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

I've seen your link to the cummins conversion but no conversion info there just your other projects what happened?

Curious, you reported 4 major breakdowns w/6.5 but was able to get home in limp mode, care to share what issues were, or?

Are you using your 4L80e in the conversion, or?

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by maximumrob

I don't understand what that sentence means. Pleuge?


EDIT: AH! You meant to write, "acts like gas is the plague." Now I get it.

WOW you should be in the decoder room in a bunker somewhere

[Colorado Ron]

Originally Posted by BAGDADEXPRESS

I've seen your link to the cummins conversion but no conversion info there just your other projects what happened?

Curious, you reported 4 major breakdowns w/6.5 but was able to get home in limp mode, care to share what issues were, or?

Are you using your 4L80e in the conversion, or?

Yea--still in the middle of the conversion. Should be done by Feb. Ill have a big write up when completed. We actually are pending time right now removing every possible wire that we can. The dash is out and wires everywhere! lol.

No--the 4l80 is out too. I went with a 6 spd. I ocassionally throw up a camea pic on my blog at coloradoron.com

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Adapters are available to install a Cummins into the Burb and keep your 4L80e which is up to the task w/stock cummins. If hp/tq is increased the 4L80 can be built to hold up to that task too.

The best cummins conversion I've seen is a H1 conversion bi-turbo 24 valve using the 94 to 98 injection pump and the 4L80e.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

A response to those who think that all GM 6.5's sux.

http://flashoffroad.com/Diesel/GM99D...elFeatures.htm

http://flashoffroad.com/Diesel/No8Cyl/CrackedBlock.htm

[enigma2y0u]

You know, people always think diesel, but it is not a cure all. A gas engine is a better bet.

[Boise K5]

I love my diesel but if your ever in a jam your more likely to run into people with spare gas than you are with spare diesel, at least in the states.

[bowtied_micky]

If a burb is good, why not an excursion? You can get the 7.3 diesel which is A GREAT ENGINE and easily/cheaply modable, you get leaf springs (simple and easy to upgrade later) a shit ton of room, they are fairly inexpensive now. I would take that over any diesel burb, plus you get a solid axle straight from Ford. Now up to 02 I think they had a D50 in the front (d60 center section with d44 tubes and outers (i think)) but your doing expo not rock crawling.

just make more sense to me
micky

[maximumrob]

Originally Posted by bowtied_micky

If a burb is good, why not an excursion?

I'm not the OP, and I do like the Excursion, but they ride like they're on wagon wheels. Maybe during a real excursion where it's loaded to the gills that wouldn't matter so much, though.

[Stumpalump]

I have a 98 1 ton crew cab 6.5. Its for sale because I bought a 4x4 van but It's been great for 5 years! A few mods are needed to get them right if you research then they run great. Best thing about them is the bad reputation because you can get them cheap. mods are relocating the Injector pump electronics controler PMD and cooling upgrades for the pre 97's. The down pipe and exhaust can be changed for 300 bucks and then mod the air box. Cheap and strong. You cannot make a 4-500 hp beast out of it but a few simple mods to make them right and you are golden. I'll miss mine.

[BAGDADEXPRESS]

Originally Posted by bowtied_micky

If a burb is good, why not an excursion? You can get the 7.3 diesel which is A GREAT ENGINE and easily/cheaply modable, you get leaf springs (simple and easy to upgrade later) a shit ton of room, they are fairly inexpensive now. I would take that over any diesel burb, plus you get a solid axle straight from Ford. Now up to 02 I think they had a D50 in the front (d60 center section with d44 tubes and outers (i think)) but your doing expo not rock crawling.

just make more sense to me
micky

An excursion would be great choice if 7.3 PS engine parts were reasonably priced! For this reason alone some excursion guys convert to the cummins.

I'm thinking a full mechanical diesel is the way to go w/expedition Ford, GM and even other computer driven engines of all types could have issues that could strand one in nowhere land.

I see that a snorkel is available for the big fords but is useless since ECM is at risk in stock configuration, same w/6.5td GM that are ECM driven. Relocate ecm and setup for fording is a must.

GM & Hummer have the option of using surplus mil hummer fording kits which connect to crankcase depression valve then to all drive train/brake/steering vents slightly pressurizing everything while fording. Diesels make pressure at idle and above idle, vacuum (however low) starts at higher rpms.

Did do more research on the gm ifs diffs, specifically the 9.25" can take much more abuse within its stock perimeters than lifted. Upper/lower stop limits must stay too. Considering, the stock sized tires are 30.4" on the 90's K2500 Suburban then 35" and slightly larger diameter tires if skinny can be used w/cutout fender flares & w/o lift.