Best platform for building an expo rig on a 6-7k budget

[scottrist]

Hi everyone. I just got back on to the forums after a few years due to selling my rubicon rig, and my off road itch has returned. I am very interested in building an expedition type rig and going on a very extended road trip this summer.

I love Toyota's and had a built 84 pickup as my rubicon rig which was amazing, and currently drive a 2wd pickup with the 22re. So I am already quite familiar with working on the Toyota which I'm sure would come in handy on a long trip.

One worry of mine was that I wanted to build a trailer for the rig and I was a bit worried about the 22re's power. Obviously, it will be geared down, but still a little worried about highway performance. Any experience with that?

I am very open to other ideas about vehicle platforms. I am not limiting myself to just pickups and 4runners. I am putting my vehicle and improvments budget around 6-7k, and all the rest of my money will be used for the trip. I am signing up for an automotive and welding class at the local community college for next semester and would love to have something to work on by New Years. And obviously a build thread to follow.

Any pics of built expo rigs in my budget would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Scott

[Hayes]

They aren't speed trucks, but it will get out of it's own way.

[87FoRunner]

2nd gen 4runner with 3.4 swap.

or 3rd gen 4runner

Xtra cab pickup or Tacoma.

[87FoRunner]

Also XJs and ZJs are cheap now.

[scottrist]

Well I figured I could get decent gas milage out of a regeared 22re on 33's or 35's. I remember my 22r with 5.29's and 36 TSL's got suprisingly good MPG.

Any others using a 1st gen 4runner or pickup? Remember I am on a budget and these things with modifications are easy to come by.

Any one with experience towing a small trailer with a 22re?

[jperecko]

I had a similar budget in mind but a few other requirements such as a full 8foot bed, extended cab, and ideally a diesel. I got an '84 F250 with a 6.9 diesel. It is big enough to haul my stuff for work and can get 20mpg pretty easy with a turbo. Currently a big project... but should be under ~7 grand and should last me as long as I want it.

A toyota is a good platform and should be able to haul at least a 2k pound trailer regularly... Capable of much more but it will get sluggish.

[TurboNerd]

On that budget? I'm a Suzuki guy, so I could get shot for saying this, but...

Jeep Charokees have come down a lot in price recently, and they have enough power to tow. Not sure if you'd have to beef the axles going up to 35" tires or not, I'm sure it wouldn't take much digging to find out. Suppose it depends on how hard you drive off road?

[xjcrawlr]

Not enough information to make a suggestion.

How many people do you plan to travel with? A family of 4 has vastly different needs than a single guy with an occasional girlfriend.

What level of self sustainability do want to aquire? Are your just planning for weekend trips or months long international travel or somewhere in between?

Just a few ideas for vehicles would be;
Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
Toy 4-runner
any land cruiser you can afford
fullsize blazer/bronco
suburban
4X4 van's
Mitsubishi Montero
Nissan X-terra

[scottrist]

The vehicle will be for myself and girlfriend. We are planning on going on one LONG road/off road trip. Mostly highway driving and tackeling trails and camping for a week to 10 days at a time.

[TurboNerd]

You'll have to discuss what amenaties you and your gils will realistically want: showers, food prep, etc. How many times a year will you travel? Are you guys comfortable for living out of the vehicle for a few days, or will it be strictly camp grounds & hotels? What kind of traveling are you going to be doing (paved roads, fire roads, or unimproved roads?). The more you're going to rely on the vehicle to live out of, the bigger it's going to need to be. The further off the beaten path you go, the more 'hard core' you're going to need the vehicle to be.

I've known people who've traveled in 'big bad boys' like RV's and Surburbans, all the way down to Subarus & Gas Friendly 4-door cars. There's no sense in spending thousands more than you need to if you're going to be in camp grounds & hotels - a cheap Geo Prism (Actually a re-badged Toyota Carolla) gets 35 MPG, and has more than enough room for 2 people & gear for 2 weeks.

[Eburg_Griz]

Originally Posted by xjcrawlr

Not enough information to make a suggestion.

How many people do you plan to travel with? A family of 4 has vastly different needs than a single guy with an occasional girlfriend.

What level of self sustainability do want to aquire? Are your just planning for weekend trips or months long international travel or somewhere in between?

Just a few ideas for vehicles would be;
Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
Toy 4-runner
any land cruiser you can afford
fullsize blazer/bronco
suburban
4X4 van's
Mitsubishi Montero
Nissan X-terra

add the Dodge Ramcharger to that group. you can score one of them for under a grand and have a fairly sturdy rig. plenty of room inside to load up.

[scottrist]

ok we will be lioving out of the vehicle 80% of the time. Cooking and shower supplies are a must. I am planning a 4-6 month trip by september-ish. I am going to want to tackle a lot of trails along the way (Moab, rubicon, and plenty of others). So i want very capable off road and still good on the highway with decent MPG. Thats why I figured going with another 85' Yota would be a good bet.

Thanks for the input so far.

[1LegLance]

You have directly opposite wants..
Very capable offroad & decent hiway mpg...depending on what you define as "decent" which I would put as closer to 20 than 10.

With your budget I would go with either a Cherokee or 4runner and remove the back seats to setup a sleep inside with drawers under platform.

Remember "expedition" or better yet "overlanding" style trips are more about the journey than the trail.....you just need solid fairly stock parts that you can get repaired/replaced anywhere and will get you to that great campsite.
On a long vehicle dependant overland trip you don't want to risk carnage or damage that will effect your hiway driving or end your trip.
Invest in quality A/T tires that aren't super huge, baseline the maintance, and invest in some quality gear...
MOST IMPORTANT get the SPOT Global Messenger so family, friends and all of us can track your trip, your friends can come if you hit the "Help" button or the helicopters if you hit the "911" button, well worth it then:
#1 buy a frdige, either Engel or ARB or Waeco, your savings in ice, wet food and such is well worth it
#2 second battery due to above and other goodies
#3 Laptop for navigation, music, pdf service manuals and such, then get a Verizon or whoever air card so you have net access all along your trip
#4 GPS puck for above is only $40 www.semsons.com globalsat is what I have run for years, weatherproof/magnetic
#5 Delorme laptop software and maybe the handheld to replace #4, that way you have great laptop nav software and a handheld for hiking
#6 www.jeniko.com laptop mount only $60 and I have run the crap out of mine including our Continental Divide Expedition and lots of desert bashing
#7 Awning setup, either the Camping Lab or whatever so you have shade and rain protection....well worth it on an overland trip
#8 Quality chairs and table, I love my PICO chairs since they fold up small, are comfy with real arms and back...a good table helps with food prep and not eating in your lap....makes a difference when you are "living" out of your rig
#9 12v DC floro light on cord like the ARB adventure light
#10 Adventure Medical Kits or someones good/big first aid kit with dental, airway and other major stuff...helps when you are a long way from help

I get most of my stuff at www.sierraexpeditions.com as I have traveled on trips with them and know that they test what they sell and stand behind it.

All we do are overlanding trips from a week to a month long so all of the above is born from experience...just trying to help

[johnwiseman]

From your description of this truck it sounds lik you are really wanting too much from one vehicle. Maybe a decent tow rig with camper shell, pulling a buggy is what you should think about.

[scottrist]

Thanks a lot for the info Lance. I agree that I might be stretching my ideas a bit here. I just want an all in one package! I very much understand not wanting to run the rig on too tough of trails so I might tone back a bit.

[1LegLance]

Just packed my rig for a 1 week overland adventure and it made me think of a few more places to spend your budget other than a quality fairly stock rig...
Good Camera so we can enjoy your trip also
External Harddrive to save pics, music and other stuff on
Benchmark Atlas books for the states you are in since they show public/private land for exploration
PETT & WagBag plus a privacy enclosure so you & she can shower & do your biz in comfort
2gal stainless sprayer with rv shower head so you can heat water on the stove and clean up
Extreme Outback Tire repair kit, best I have seen, small package with a ton of stuff
On board Air from Extreme Outback, tools for repairs, tire air up/down which you will do alot, clean up dust on laptop/camera/interior
Shades/bug screens for your interior if you sleep inside for privacy and so you can have the windows open....a trick for the bug screen is to sew the stuff like a bag that slips over the top of the door then you close it...if that makes sense.

Quality gear (but not too much stuff) will make your extended overland trip much more enjoyable...
You will be amazed where a fairly stock rig with qood tires and a better driver can take you....
Enjoy the trip and report back!

[AddictedOffroad]

I have a 1st gen 4runner with the same idea in mind. Its a 88' with the 3.0L, 5spd, dual cases with 4.7s in the rear case. SAS'd and on 35s with 5.29s. I built a small(smaller than a military trailer) for camping and expedition that I tow behind it. I used all scrap tubing that I had laying around the shop, and then skinned the trailer. I have a family of five and we camp quite a bit in some remote places of Colorado. I can pretty much tow this thing anywhere the 4runner will go. The axle is a 84' mini truck axle, but the shafts were removed. I used front axle spindle, wheel bearings, and hub assembly on it with an extra set of locking hubs. These are all trail spares. It also has an xtra 5.29 3rd member that sits in the housing as a spare.

It will hold all of my camping gear, and my dogs can ride in the back of the 4runner fairly easily. I would say that the trailer itself weighs around 500lbs unloaded, and when loaded I am likely pulling around 1000-1200lbs. At that weight, and with the weight of my family and dogs, the 3.0L does okay at pulling it. We have 75mph freeways out here, and it keeps up with traffic just fine and I can set the cruise control still on the flats. Hills are a a little slow, but I can usually hold 55mph in 3rd gear, which is just fine by me. Eventually when the 3.0L dies (I'm at 140 psi across all six cyls), I will swap in a 3.4L and all of my power concerns should be met by that point. In the meantime, I am extremely happy with the rig.



Here is the build thread on my 4runner and trailer:
/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/677171-round-three-project-overdose.html

I would think that $6-7K may be pushing it, but if you do all of your own work, then its possible if you can pickup a rig for cheap.

[RamJet GMC]

wow a post i can real sink my teath in to

i have realy been thinking of this for a while this is my idea i was realy looking to build a 3+3 crewcab truck and lose the bed ORD build willard and J.P. -willieswanter RIP build fantic rigs-- this is where i got the idea
link to ORD willard
http://www.offroaddesign.com/willard.htm



and some one on ck5and he is this site built a suburan and can be found much cheeper the a crew cab

well he bobed the back and cut off the roof to make a crew cab

will try to get pic and add --- got it

and a link to his build

/forum/chevy/673462-my-burb.html


well my idea is the build this to go offroading with the kids and put as much stuff in the cab when ther are no kids
i would go with a d60 14bolt tpi 350 th400 203/205 or stack that idea
but use as many of the rack parts as you can so you can go to auto zone and the dopie guy could get it you get it

the platform had oem leafs and a lot of things you could just bolt on when 400 miles from home -- i would love to see what you guys think of this ?

[scottrist]

Originally Posted by AddictedOffroad

I have a 1st gen 4runner with the same idea in mind. Its a 88' with the 3.0L, 5spd, dual cases with 4.7s in the rear case. SAS'd and on 35s with 5.29s. I built a small(smaller than a military trailer) for camping and expedition that I tow behind it. I used all scrap tubing that I had laying around the shop, and then skinned the trailer. I have a family of five and we camp quite a bit in some remote places of Colorado. I can pretty much tow this thing anywhere the 4runner will go. The axle is a 84' mini truck axle, but the shafts were removed. I used front axle spindle, wheel bearings, and hub assembly on it with an extra set of locking hubs. These are all trail spares. It also has an xtra 5.29 3rd member that sits in the housing as a spare.

It will hold all of my camping gear, and my dogs can ride in the back of the 4runner fairly easily. I would say that the trailer itself weighs around 500lbs unloaded, and when loaded I am likely pulling around 1000-1200lbs. At that weight, and with the weight of my family and dogs, the 3.0L does okay at pulling it. We have 75mph freeways out here, and it keeps up with traffic just fine and I can set the cruise control still on the flats. Hills are a a little slow, but I can usually hold 55mph in 3rd gear, which is just fine by me. Eventually when the 3.0L dies (I'm at 140 psi across all six cyls), I will swap in a 3.4L and all of my power concerns should be met by that point. In the meantime, I am extremely happy with the rig.



Here is the build thread on my 4runner and trailer:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=677171

I would think that $6-7K may be pushing it, but if you do all of your own work, then its possible if you can pickup a rig for cheap.

Awesome runner that is basically the exact setup I want to go with. What type of MPG are u getting with the trailer? Do you think the 22re would do as well as the 3.0? I have had both and didnt notice a huge differnece.

I love the idea of using the spare parts in your trailer axle. Very Smart!

[AddictedOffroad]

Originally Posted by scottrist

Awesome runner that is basically the exact setup I want to go with. What type of MPG are u getting with the trailer? Do you think the 22re would do as well as the 3.0? I have had both and didnt notice a huge differnece.

I love the idea of using the spare parts in your trailer axle. Very Smart!

I would think that a BUILT 22RE with a RV Cam, header, 2.25" exhaust, and good gearing would do okay. Its doable, but barely. However, what I don't like about the 22RE, is that add a stiff head wind, and a slight incline, and 5th gear is useless. Its the not the same with my 88'. And, even as gutless as it is, I just don't think a built 22RE would keep up with it doing the same duty. The 3.4L swap is where its at IMO. I have a few buddies that have done the swap, and they are built very similar but with 2nd gen 4runners. They are getting around 18-19mpg, and do just fine. One of them pulls his 3500lb boat with his 91 SAS'd 4runner from NE Colorado, and to Havasu a couple times each year.

I get real shitty mileage with mine being built the way it is. I only get roughly 14mpg since the build up and don't get too much of a drop off with the trailer believe it or not. Prior to the build up I was getting around 16.5mpg with it.

I've built several 4runners. This is my 1st V6 one. All the others with 22REs got around 19mpg with 37s on the rig. Remember that a stock 22RE was only 115HP/150TQ. The V6 was 150HP/180TQ.

[TurboNerd]

Originally Posted by scottrist

Cooking and shower supplies are a must. I am going to want to tackle a lot of trails along the way (Moab, rubicon, and plenty of others).

These, coupled with your budget, are mutually exclusive. I've made the mistake (twice) of taking on the 'con in the same vehicle I drove there in. I had to be trailered home (where I had tools to fix) both times. Mind you it CAN be done, and HAS been done, but vets of the Rubicon will tell you - expect breakage. More people break something than not, and some failures are more catastrophic than others. If you're deep in the con, you can be 4 hours driving, or 2 days hiking (each way) to the nearest parts store that may or may not have your part in stock. That said, if you're insane enough to do it, 4-funner, toy truck or Cherokee are probably your best bets.

On board water can be home-fabbed cheap enough, and there's lots of portable shower things (like a tall & narrow tent) at your favorite camp supply store (about $250-$300 for everything). Or just do the solar shower thing. I'm going to copy this design: http://www.hotcampshowers.com/new51788.html

[scottrist]

I've ran the rubicon a large number of times. It is def. a tough trail, but very doable with what I plan to build. Plus my parents live about an hour away so they can rescue me. They have rescued me twice up there so far! When I didnt know how to fix anything.

BTW I am planning on a 1st gen 4runner or 2nd gen pickup, solid front axle, minimal lift, 33's, 5.29's, rear locker, High steer, and dual cases or 4.7's. I have been seeing a lot of these setups for cheap lately. I hate to buy built, but these mods aren't cheap. I know from bulding my 84.

[AddictedOffroad]

Originally Posted by scottrist

I've ran the rubicon a large number of times. It is def. a tough trail, but very doable with what I plan to build. Plus my parents live about an hour away so they can rescue me. They have rescued me twice up there so far! When I didnt know how to fix anything.

BTW I am planning on a 1st gen 4runner or 2nd gen pickup, solid front axle, minimal lift, 33's, 5.29's, rear locker, High steer, and dual cases or 4.7's. I have been seeing a lot of these setups for cheap lately. I hate to buy built, but these mods aren't cheap. I know from bulding my 84.

Just don't buy someone else's headache. I always build my own rigs from scratch since i never know what corners were cut on someone else's rig.

[broncdawg]

Hey Scotty,
Good to see you cruising the expedition forum, been lurking here for a while as building an E 350 4x4 van for baja/alaska. Might be dropping a 7.3 diesel in it. Already has a D 60 front end and 205.
Hope all's well and the economy kicks in soon for you fab shop guys.

[AddictedOffroad]

Originally Posted by broncdawg

Hey Scotty,
Good to see you cruising the expedition forum, been lurking here for a while as building an E 350 4x4 van for baja/alaska. Might be dropping a 7.3 diesel in it. Already has a D 60 front end and 205.
Hope all's well and the economy kicks in soon for you fab shop guys.

Thanks Greg. Good to hear from you! Van sounds like fun!