mah deuce

[BurbanFreek]

San Jose Generator is the shit! Rod is awesome he does great work and is very cool and will work with ya.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Yeah, he's great. Really seems to know his stuff. Reminds me a bit of Steve at South Bay Driveline.

[87manche]

Originally Posted by JESSE_at_TLT

That's an interesting point about the belts slipping though. One more reason to convert over to a serpentine belt.

I will say that mine has a smaller pulley on it than the original, so that may contribute. But it turns on and makes full amperage at a very low RPM now. Old guy said he used to build them that way for the ambulances so they would still have good output at a high idle.

The price was so good I just said "yes" and handed him the cash.

[440-fide Ramcharger]

Originally Posted by JESSE_at_TLT

Yeah, he's great. Really seems to know his stuff. Reminds me a bit of Steve at South Bay Driveline.

They have similar stories. Basically ran a shop for someone else and now they run their own shop for themselves. Been going to both those guys for over 20 years.

[BurbanFreek]

Steve is cool but you need to talk to him not his wife he makes me better deals lol.

[OldMan99]

Great build, I have been enjoying the thread/build quite a bit.

I was wondering if you solved your radiator fan issue yet? I noticed nobody has mentioned an electric fan option. It would be a lot less complicated and or expensive than some of the other options discussed and you have to admit, there is something to be said for less complicated, especially when your out in the middle of West Nowhere.

Electric radiator cooling fans have been around plenty long enough that they are about bullet proof. You can get new ones or get them from a junk yard. You can also turn them off when doing a water crossing to prevent throwing water all over the engine compartment and of course they do not cause any drag on the engine while in the water like a mechanical fan would do.

Just a thought..

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Know it's a long thread, and it's hard to catch everything, but we have discussed electric fans. There are a few different people who have experimented with electric fans, in every different combination, using high-quality Spal fans, and they're just not up to the task. The stock radiator is undersized for the application by most accounts, so the cooling fan really has to work overtime to keep the temps under control.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

So like I said, went down to San Jose Generator and talked to Rod. He spent about twenty minutes talking with me about this project and what I wanted to accomplish with the electrical system. He agreed that the Leese Neville alternators are probably going to be my best bet, and showed me a few that are putting out up to 270-amps! The other alternative he recommended is a 200-amp Pentex unit that's really common in limos and ambulances. Think the first thing I'm going to go with a Leese Neville, and first thing I'm going to do is see about getting my hands on a junker that I can use for mock-up, so I can start designing the new alternator mounts. Didn't think to ask Rod about that, but I'm sure he's got something laying around. haha.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Also picked up a few sewing machines that I was having repaired at a place up in San Jose. Took them eight and a half months and they were only able to get one of them all put back together and running, but I'm pretty excited about my new Pfaff 545.




My good friend James over at Renazco Racing hooked me up with these beautiful old machines, along with a newer Consew zig-zag machine. He's been teaching me how to sew, and I've got a long way to go, but have really been enjoying this stuff. Take a look at this custom seat that we made for my KTM together (I shaped it and James did the sewing).




Setting a few of these machines up so I can practice, planning on making room for one of them in the trailer. See, a lot of this stuff that I'm working on is not strictly related to the motorhome, but it's not entirely unrelated either. Putting a lot more work into making this transition than simply building a motorhome, and it's all coming together. Slowly.

[HandBuilt]

I have used a 240 amp leece neville with a J180 mount on my wheeling rig. Great alt. They are common on coaches and buses. I would get a J180 mount as opposed to a pad mount, easier to adapt. Anyways I think that a L-N unit is bang on.

[87manche]

that busted up one I had a picture of is still in a box in the garage.

I'm sure I can make it fit in a flat rate box.

[BurbanFreek]

sweet pictures of sj generator!

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Originally Posted by HandBuilt

I have used a 240 amp leece neville with a J180 mount on my wheeling rig. Great alt. They are common on coaches and buses. I would get a J180 mount as opposed to a pad mount, easier to adapt. Anyways I think that a L-N unit is bang on.

Just started looking into different mounting options and looks like there are a few; a 'long' and 'short' J180, in addition to the pad-mount (source).

Originally Posted by 87manche

that busted up one I had a picture of is still in a box in the garage.

I'm sure I can make it fit in a flat rate box.

That would be awesome. Need to confirm that it's got the same mounting dimensions as whatever alternator I'm going to end up running (probably J-180 long?), but would sure appreciate it if you haven't got any use for it.

Found out there's an even higher output 320-amp Leese Neville alternator available - part number 4890JB (source). Wow.

Have a few questions though.

Based on the info I was able to find online, looks like running a 320-amp 12V alternator would cost me about 5.75hp. Not too bad, but wonder if it's possible to put an alternator on a clutch or something so that it wouldn't be consuming horsepower and fuel when I didn't need it. Would save a lot of wear-and-tear on an expensive alternator too.

Might not make much sense to get anything much bigger than a 270-amp alternator though, since my inverter (Xantrex Prosine 3.0) is 'only' rated for 3000 Watts. But that's output, right? Going to have at least two huge banks of deep-cycle 6V golf cart batteries to charge. Wonder how fast I can really charge them though? Or how fast I really need to...

These super-high-output alternators have also got me thinking about the large PTO-driven generator motor that I was planning to get to power a 220V welder. Maybe I could get a pair of 270 or 320-amp alternators instead? Would require another inverter. Wonder how that would work, and what that would cost. Probably not too difficult to switch between sending power to the 110/220V inverters, and a quick google search indicates that I'm look at somewhere around $500+ for an inverter. Don't think I'd need another expensive pure-sine inverter to power a MIG welder would I? Would probably be a lot better-off just running a single high-output 24V alternator, but want to keep the vehicle's charging system isolated from any/all accessories.

Anybody have any thoughts? A bit out of my depth here.

[87manche]

It's a j-180 mont version. It came out of a navistar truck, same case as that one you took a photo of in the big book o alternator

Wen I get some time I'll run your wattage numbers. Bear in mind that the 5.75 HP draw is only if you're putting a full load on the alternator. If it's not generating full amperage it won't take that much HP to turn. I also wouldn't worry about the longevity of the alternator. Trust me, the bearings in these things are stupid huge compared to your average delco style jobby.

pm me your address and I'll dig it out. I need to clean the garage anyway. Do you want it's guts or just the case?

[BenE]

Originally Posted by JESSE_at_TLT

Found out there's an even higher output 320-amp Leese Neville alternator available - part number 4890JB (source). Wow.

Have a few questions though.

Based on the info I was able to find online, looks like running a 320-amp 12V alternator would cost me about 5.75hp. Not too bad, but wonder if it's possible to put an alternator on a clutch or something so that it wouldn't be consuming horsepower and fuel when I didn't need it. Would save a lot of wear-and-tear on an expensive alternator too.

Might not make much sense to get anything much bigger than a 270-amp alternator though, since my inverter (Xantrex Prosine 3.0) is 'only' rated for 3000 Watts. But that's output, right? Going to have at least two huge banks of deep-cycle 6V golf cart batteries to charge. Wonder how fast I can really charge them though? Or how fast I really need to...

These super-high-output alternators have also got me thinking about the large PTO-driven generator motor that I was planning to get to power a 220V welder. Maybe I could get a pair of 270 or 320-amp alternators instead? Would require another inverter. Wonder how that would work, and what that would cost. Probably not too difficult to switch between sending power to the 110/220V inverters, and a quick google search indicates that I'm look at somewhere around $500+ for an inverter. Don't think I'd need another expensive pure-sine inverter to power a MIG welder would I? Would probably be a lot better-off just running a single high-output 24V alternator, but want to keep the vehicle's charging system isolated from any/all accessories.

Anybody have any thoughts? A bit out of my depth here.

Weld with the alternator.
It is 3 phase.
Instead of 60 Hz, it is something like 7000 Hz, and the super high frequency makes it easier to weld with.
I have a Link Ark on board welder head unit (and 160amp alt) and it separates the vehicles charging system when you want to weld. Then you trim the engine speed to the amperage you need, and go to town. The vehicle runs off of the stored battery power while using the unit.
Or you could run two separate systems and just use one alt for welding or running your inverter.
Like the weldinator
http://mhickok.blogspot.com/2008/06/...rue-power.html

[elbekko]

You may be interested in this:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?sh...6&#entry236885

Originally Posted by simonr

As a rule of thumb, the most you can reasonably put through a regular V belt (13 or 10mm) is about 3hp - but at 3hp it will be trying to catch fire. 3Hp is roughly 2.2kw = 180A

If you allow a safety margin so that it will not be trying to catch fire - I would guess at 100A being about the limit.

A PolyVee (serpentine) vehicle belt can be good for up to 8hp or up to 500A - so, say 250A with some margin.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Originally Posted by 87manche

It's a j-180 mont version. It came out of a navistar truck, same case as that one you took a photo of in the big book o alternator

Wen I get some time I'll run your wattage numbers. Bear in mind that the 5.75 HP draw is only if you're putting a full load on the alternator. If it's not generating full amperage it won't take that much HP to turn. I also wouldn't worry about the longevity of the alternator. Trust me, the bearings in these things are stupid huge compared to your average delco style jobby.

pm me your address and I'll dig it out. I need to clean the garage anyway. Do you want it's guts or just the case?

Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.

Originally Posted by BenE

Weld with the alternator.
It is 3 phase.
Instead of 60 Hz, it is something like 7000 Hz, and the super high frequency makes it easier to weld with.
I have a Link Ark on board welder head unit (and 160amp alt) and it separates the vehicles charging system when you want to weld. Then you trim the engine speed to the amperage you need, and go to town. The vehicle runs off of the stored battery power while using the unit.
Or you could run two separate systems and just use one alt for welding or running your inverter.
Like the weldinator
http://mhickok.blogspot.com/2008/06/...rue-power.html

Thanks, but I'm not talking about powering an onboard welder. Should have been a little more clear. Probably going to end up with a Miller Passport Plus in the trailer/workshop. When I asked about power supply, they told me that unit can draw up to 6000 watts initially, and then something more like 4000 watts while welding. Runs on 115/230V.

Originally Posted by elbekko

You may be interested in this:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?sh...6&#entry236885

Thanks, that is interesting. The stock configuration uses double V-belts, but like I was saying, think I might end up switching over to a serpentine setup. Helpful to know what the limitations of each are in any case though. Thanks again for posting.

[87manche]

Originally Posted by JESSE_at_TLT

Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.

An alternaotr is always generating a solid voltage.
Voltage is what pushes current. So if the battery is lower than the 13.6 the alternator is putting out the voltage pushes amperage to the battery. Amperage is current, it's what does actual work.

So if everything is charged up there's no need for the current, so the alternator just keeps the voltage up, but it's not doing any real work.

http://www.slideshare.net/ram_ari/alternator-winding

good general knowledge.

I've got the guts and the shaft with the pulley. The shaft got bent when he tried to pull the pulley. The pulley is also a little wonky. Good enough for a solid mockup.

[Munchies]

Originally Posted by JESSE_at_TLT

Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.


Thanks, but I'm not talking about powering an onboard welder. Should have been a little more clear. Probably going to end up with a Miller Passport Plus in the trailer/workshop. When I asked about power supply, they told me that unit can draw up to 6000 watts initially, and then something more like 4000 watts while welding. Runs on 115/230V.




Thanks, that is interesting. The stock configuration uses double V-belts, but like I was saying, think I might end up switching over to a serpentine setup. Helpful to know what the limitations of each are in any case though. Thanks again for posting.

If you are doing a battery bank/inverter just run it off the inverter. A 6v golf cart battery setup with it wired up to 24V being charged by a 24v alternator on demand would be boss. Solar when parked during day, fire up the truck and high idle for welding.

[Munchies]

87manche got all that right no need for a clutch, no load on the alternator no load on the belt (not much anyhow still need to spin all the windings)

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Originally Posted by Munchies

If you are doing a battery bank/inverter just run it off the inverter. A 6v golf cart battery setup with it wired up to 24V being charged by a 24v alternator on demand would be boss. Solar when parked during day, fire up the truck and high idle for welding.

Well, I'm doing a 12V battery bank and 110 inverter that's only 3000 watts. Would need a second battery bank and inverter for the 24V to 220. Then I'd be thinking that I'd kinda want to keep the 24V electrical system separate from any accessories. So what, three alternators? Haha, this could get outta hand pretty quickly.

[bigun]

I think your over thinking the whole problem just run a stand alone generator when using the welder.

[87manche]

regarding your wattage.

figure a 3kW inverter is not 100% efficient. Amps is watts/voltage

so 3000/120=25

but, like we said before, voltage is what pushes amps. The less voltage you have the more amps you need. Voltage is like water pressure. Amps is water flow.

so, 3kw@ 12 volts is
3000/12=250 A
then add 10-15% because your inverters rated wattage is before any efficiency losses.

so at peak output your inverter is probably going to pull nearly 300A.

Now, if you're not planning on pulling peak wattage all the time, you don't need an alt that's capable of powering all the load. The battery bank will step in and make up the difference.

So, size your wiring according to 300A loads, and figure that when you're battery shopping.
Plan on being at a net deficit when you're pulling peak wattage, and then the alternator will recover the batteries during your down time.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Originally Posted by bigun

I think your over thinking the whole problem just run a stand alone generator when using the welder.

Space is a major concern. A big generator is... big. Had picked up a 6000 watt honda unit but decidsd that I didn't want to have to make room for it. Sold it. If I can eliminate the motor and repackage the rest of the components individually, can make a lot better use of space.

Originally Posted by 87manche

regarding your wattage.

figure a 3kW inverter is not 100% efficient. Amps is watts/voltage

so 3000/120=25

but, like we said before, voltage is what pushes amps. The less voltage you have the more amps you need. Voltage is like water pressure. Amps is water flow.

so, 3kw@ 12 volts is
3000/12=250 A
then add 10-15% because your inverters rated wattage is before any efficiency losses.

so at peak output your inverter is probably going to pull nearly 300A.

Now, if you're not planning on pulling peak wattage all the time, you don't need an alt that's capable of powering all the load. The battery bank will step in and make up the difference.

So, size your wiring according to 300A loads, and figure that when you're battery shopping.
Plan on being at a net deficit when you're pulling peak wattage, and then the alternator will recover the batteries during your down time.

That makes perfect sense, thanks.

[Elwenil]

I can't remember if you are using a PTO winch or not but if not, you could use a generator head attached to the PTO. It could all be mounted under the rig, or tucked up in a corner somewhere. I'd still go with a nice high amp alternator but the generator could be an option for welding and similar high draw stuff.