E4OD won't shift - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Ford
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2011, 10:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
E4OD won't shift

After a search yielded a couple tips for testing, and replacing a few parts, I'm stumped. So heres my problem, I hope a Ford guru can jump in and gimme a hand.

I got a kid (broke intern) that works maintenance with me at the city. He's got a 93 Bronco, 5.0, E4OD, with about a billion miles on it that's his DD, and mild trail rig.
One day he came to me, said his trans was acting up. So I poked around. Fluid is clean, doesn't slip. Just won't shift. You can run through the gears manually, but it'll just stay in that gear.
After some advice, we put in a new soleniod pack, and replaced the switch the controls them.
Nothing. Same thing.
Borrow a code scanner, comes back with 683, trans temp low and 624, EPC circuit failure.
I'm a pretty good wrench, but no Ford expert. I'm guessing at this point theres probably a bad wire in the harness.

So I throw myself on the mercy of the Pirate Ford Gods, help me get this thing out of my shop so I can get back to paying work.

Last edited by HardCharger81; 11-10-2011 at 10:09 PM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2011, 10:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Member # 158768
Location: on the internet stalkin' and shit.
Posts: 3,581
i'm no transmission guru, but did he recently change the fluid? you said it has a lot of miles but clean fluid, a lot of times changing the fluid takes out the shit that was floating around making it still grip and catch clutches.

the low temp code is kind of opposite of what i'd imagine for a slipping shitty tranny. once he gets the codes figured out, if they are nothing major look into lucas transmission fix, heard e40d's love it.
fatdan460 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-10-2011, 10:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
That was one of the things I thought of, but when you click from 1st to 2nd, it shifts firm, and if you hold the brake and get on the gas, it'll spin the tires. So I don't thing slippage is the issue. Hell, I wish it was that simple, trans would be shot, and we'd stuff in a new one.

Last edited by HardCharger81; 11-11-2011 at 09:13 AM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2011, 11:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Rock God
 
dieselboy740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168108
Location: Ramona
Posts: 1,912
Trans ecu fuse? You may need a EEC scanner. It'll tell you trans codes and etc.. You may have a bad prnd sensor.
__________________
'97 f-250 project, boat sides, 3/4 link, caged, psd, back halved, dove tailed, fox co/ bumps, etc....
'94 f-350 crewcab, dually, 7.3idi rollalong package
'82 Volvo 242 turbo
dieselboy740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2011, 09:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
I've checked all the fuses, twice. It's my understanding that theres seperate codes for the engine and transmission, but am I correct in saying that the chicken sh!t code reader won't pull them? I really hate to tell this broke kid to take this thing to AAMCO, but I'm really stumped.
Someone asked on another forum if the speedometer was working, because thats the VSS, and will cause this issue, but it works.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2011, 06:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Went through the harness, seems like the wiring is good, theres no power to the shift solenoids when the truck is underway. Not sure where to go from here.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2011, 06:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
party wagon
 
FordX4-offroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Member # 202878
Location: jojah
Posts: 2,503
i wouldnt have a clue except giver tits with the manual shifting thing. because i just paid 2000 bucks for a new one in my truck
__________________
423-827-6890
Donovan


DC METALWERX
...
FordX4-offroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 10:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188664
Posts: 137
Check the MLPS, if it is out of adjustment or bad the transmission will not shift properly.
Southern Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
MLPS is new, I even double checked all the ohm readings for it thinking maybe I got a bad one out of the box.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
FRIZZLEFRY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5691
Location: Fresno
Posts: 531
The electrical connector at the tranny in good shape?What kind of shape is the harness in where it goes over the top of the tranny? Never had a bad MLPS that didnt throw a code.Did you have the 683 and 624 before you swapped out solenoid bodies?

I have seen smashed down trans humps and sheet metal screws get into those wires and cause issues like that.

My Ford E4OD manual is kinda no help in the diagnosis by symptom section.Any way you could get a hold of a trans tester? Trans tester would be the fastest way to tell if its internal or external.My guess is external.
__________________
The Woohoodilly- 69 FJ55
Bertha-79 Diesel K10 Stepside- Stock height,35s,LS powered & spring under
FRIZZLEFRY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 01:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
Rock God
 
dieselboy740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168108
Location: Ramona
Posts: 1,912
I have a wiring diagram somewhere that shows you how to wire in leds to show you if the computer is actually telling the thing to shift.

Unplug the transmission and it should be in 4th.

it has 3 solenoids. shift a, shift b, and torque converter lockup.

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/245234
__________________
'97 f-250 project, boat sides, 3/4 link, caged, psd, back halved, dove tailed, fox co/ bumps, etc....
'94 f-350 crewcab, dually, 7.3idi rollalong package
'82 Volvo 242 turbo
dieselboy740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 02:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
The weatherpack plug that goes into the solenoids was junk, I thought that might be our problem, I re-did it with a new plug.

We've actually unplugged it and drove it down the alley, and your right, its in 3rd or 4th and stays there.

We've had the codes since we started this mess, nothing has changed the codes, or the symptoms. Even after clearing the codes, still get 638 and 624.

I've been leaning toward the computer maybe being shot, but I scanned it, got 638 and 624. Then I cleared it, and disconnected to trans harness, and scanned again. Every trans code came up that time. So the computer is picking up the wiring.

I'd love to get ahold of a trans tester, anyone in the Sacramento/Elk Grove area have one I could borrow or come outand use? Maybe point us in the right direction?

Last edited by HardCharger81; 11-13-2011 at 02:16 PM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 05:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Dieseboy, if you could pass along the info on putting LEDS inline, that'd be awesome.
Thanks
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Just as an update, and maybe try and get some more Ford guys to jump in here....

After tring everything I, Pirate at large, Full Size Bronco, and AllData said, I was stumped, and my intern was ready to kill himself.
So, down the street is a local, reputable, shop that I struck a deal with. I'd do some fab work for them, and they'd diagnose the truck for us.
We drug it down there, and after a week of screwing with it, and getting about 20 hours worth of fab work outta me, they blew a planetary in it, and killed it completely.

I understand these things happen, and when your broke like my apprentice, it comes with the territory. But before they killed it, they assured me that everything electrical was working properly, and the trans totally failing was the end result of the symtoms we were having.

Fast forward, kid saves up a few hundered and we find a known good trans from a rolled Bronco and swap it over the last couple nights.

Go out for a test drive tonight. Some thing, no shifting. My intern is trying to kill himself, and I look stupid.

So I'm guessing this is an electrical issue, someone has had to encountered this before.
It was mentioned to me on another site the sometimes the chip on the circut board in the speedo going bad make these trucks do weird things.

Short of a ZF or C6 swap, I'm out of ideas, I hope one of you has one.

Last edited by HardCharger81; 02-11-2012 at 07:38 PM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 07:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Hardcore Web Wheeler
 
Whitetrash303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102426
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,073
I dunno about anything in the cluster causing it. But if the harness is fine and you have the same symptoms with a different trans....Crack open the PCM and look for broken solder joints.

Also, have you checked and cleaned all of your grounds?
__________________
The Answer to 1984 is 1776
Whitetrash303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Yessir, we even tried a new ECU, same thing. The shop we took it too scanned it with both new and old ECU and said the old one was good, so in the interest of saving money, we sent the new one back for a partial refund.

Grounds are good. I've combed this stupid thing. I can't believe it still stays stuck in gear with a completely new transmission.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 08:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
Rock God
 
dieselboy740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168108
Location: Ramona
Posts: 1,912
So the od light doesn't flash does it?

Oh sorry i forgot. Ill look up how to hook the leds up. Ive forgotten the wires and colors.
__________________
'97 f-250 project, boat sides, 3/4 link, caged, psd, back halved, dove tailed, fox co/ bumps, etc....
'94 f-350 crewcab, dually, 7.3idi rollalong package
'82 Volvo 242 turbo
dieselboy740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 09:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
Hardcore Web Wheeler
 
Whitetrash303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102426
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,073
hmmm.

I'm kinda stumped too. The shop said it still tossed the same codes with the new PCM?

Next thing I would try is unplug the PCM. Measure resistance between pin 57 (red) and pin 38 (white/yellow). I'm guessing it should be 20-30 ohms. Most importantly not open.
that will verify the wiring and EPC solenoid.

Looking at the diagram, it does get VSS from the cluster, so there could be a problem there. I would think that it would still shift, just in a limped fashion.
__________________
The Answer to 1984 is 1776
Whitetrash303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Yep, same codes with both.

I've been through the harness a few times just checking for shorts with power probe, and everything checks out, but I'll pull out the multimeter tomorrow and check the pins your talking about WhiteTrash.

As for the OD light, thats another mystery. At the begining of this little adveture, it worked, like nothing was wrong.
Then, as we started trying to diagnose it, it started blinking. The shop said they had it working, but since we've swapped trannys, the light doesn't come on, but you can here it click in the trans when you hit the button.

I know we've got alot of weird stuff going on, and I appreciate al the help so far.

I'm also told that it should never technically stay stuck in one gear, and should shift in a "limp home" mode, but we, nor the shop before the trans completely let go, could ever make it shift like that. Which was a mystery to them too...

Last edited by HardCharger81; 02-11-2012 at 09:19 PM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
Hardcore Web Wheeler
 
Whitetrash303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102426
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,073
Check for power at fuse #17. The od light gets power from there. Switch should still function without power though.
__________________
The Answer to 1984 is 1776
Whitetrash303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 09:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Am I right when I read in AllData that the switch is like a momentary on and that click is what signals the computer to turn the OD off/on ?

I'm going to head out to the shop tomorrow an mess with it.

Thanks again guys, keep the ideas coming.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 10:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
Hardcore Web Wheeler
 
Whitetrash303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102426
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,073
Correct.
The led gets power from the fuse, but is controlled via ground from the PCM (via pin #32 white / lt grn). So if it's got power and won't light when you cycle the switch it's probably not getting grounded by the PCM. Or the LED burnt up.
__________________
The Answer to 1984 is 1776
Whitetrash303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 10:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
In the shop now.

I have power at fuse 17.

Set up the multimeter and plugged into 57 and 38.

They ohm out to 50ish.
I thought I was on to something for a minute, turns out I was looking at the plug upside down.
What next Ford experts?

Last edited by HardCharger81; 02-12-2012 at 10:45 AM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 10:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 83191
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 233
Also, with power hooked up and the key on, should I have 12v at the pins for the epc solenoid and both shift solenoids?

Last edited by HardCharger81; 02-12-2012 at 10:57 AM.
HardCharger81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
Hardcore Web Wheeler
 
Whitetrash303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102426
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,073
Yes you should have power there, the PCM activates them via ground. 50ish is slightly higher than I would have guessed, but not open. I think your first issue to tackle is the EPC problem. You might check to see if the other solenoids are 50ish as well. If so, I can't really see the problem stemming from anywhere but the PCM (if all grounds are good). I think I'd still crack it open and look at the solder joints, take a whiff and see if it smells like magic smoke. It wouldn't hurt to make sure you have pulse from the speedo before tossing a pcm at it also. Pins 3 and 6 at the PCM.
__________________
The Answer to 1984 is 1776
Whitetrash303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.