TOTW: Ford EFI Swaps & Installs

[86turbodsl]

For the alternator, all you need is a large gage wire from the B+ terminal to the battery, and a wire from the key on to the alternator IGN. The internal regulator will energize the field with the correct voltage. I'm at work, so I can't tell you what circuit or wire color to use for a IGN line, but it would only be energized in run, not in acc or start.

[kpj]

I am looking at picking up a 87 460 from an F350 that is carburated and was wondering if there are bolt in swaps from a newer 460 or another motor that would work fairly easily. I am planning on swapping the motor in with the carb and down the road do an EFI swap.

TIA,

ken

[bobbywalter]

hey jhon deer ranger...alot of that info is whats on bobs site...you should claim that source first as he took alot of time 4 or 5 years ago to put that up.
i am way to lazy to do that.


as for the guy with the mark 7 harness, did you figure out the o2 setup yet? if your missing the wire for the alternator it may not be in what you have cause the way the 7 crosses over, and the 7's engine harnessdoes not always include the water temp and oil pressure.. the mark is a bit more involved then the mustang on most years and the motorsport manual dont always help cause the fuel pump is not in the green plug. its in the lil 3 wired grey ended one. but is still a basic two 8 plug setup, so i swap the key functions all to one 8 pin plug and the bat feed + and - functions to the other 8 pin. then i cut the other mating ends that fit those ends off a harness so i can make it plug into whatever i swap it into. with this setup all you do is send key functions to the column and the bat needs to the bat. the damn o2 setup is kind of a pia though....

on some setups if you sraight wire the starter relay and bypass the neutral safety it will be in failure mode at first and not want to rev past 4-5 g and run like ass...but once running if you flip the key on and off real fast it will reset and run correctly. i like this cause if someone runs off with my pig they wont be able to get away from the cops or drive 100 mph unless they know better...or burn the tires ect. but its hell on the tfi module for some reason i never cared to figure out.

i have the standardized charts for colors n the eec4 systems and the eec4 is reletivly simple compared to the eec5...the eec5 is a fawkin train wreck.

there are to prototype setups i got running now. if they turn out ok i will have something good for the 4x4 guys. but till i get 10 000 miles with no trouble on em i aint sayin shiiit.

when swapping a maf 5.0 stang harness into a gen 1 ranger, its easier with a stock harness then the painless if you make jumpers like i do. whenever possible i like to make the systems plug ins cause i have had fires when playing with nitrous and shit in the past..and some horrid moments on the trail.

[Nickm]

Originally Posted by John Deere Ranger

Most popular 5.0 years are the 89-92 Mustangs. in 93 they didn't put forged pistons any more. and in 88 they used Speed density instead of Mass Air Flow. Mass Air flow allows for more build up of the EFI motor.

what other cars and trucks had that set up. And what the going price. My cousin has a nicely set up '88 mustang he want to sell me. But he want $1800 for the whole thing. Whats a good offer for the engine and harness. The body is crap any way.

[boggerman]

Originally Posted by kpj

I am looking at picking up a 87 460 from an F350 that is carburated and was wondering if there are bolt in swaps from a newer 460 or another motor that would work fairly easily. I am planning on swapping the motor in with the carb and down the road do an EFI swap.

TIA,

ken

I am also looking at an efi swap for my 460, but I have pretty much ruled out speed/density setups (tbi type) in favor of mass-air. I have read that california model 460's were mass-air in 96-97, can anyone confirm this?

My current plan is to machine my manifold for injector bungs, purchase the throttle body-to-manifold elbow and fuel rails from an efi-spyder setup, use the computer and harness from a mass-air 5.0 'stang, and aftermarket throttle body, mass-air sensor, and injectors to provide adequate air/fuel for the larger displacement. I imagine that some of the supercharged 5.0 applications should match up nicely with a relatively mild 460.

Advise, problems, solutions? I'm open to any of them.

[bobbywalter]

dyno dave sets up 700+ hp 440 chryslers and bb fords like that quite a bit here in michigan. find a dyno tuner to get it straight for ya.

[boggerman]

That will be difficult in the dirtwater, bfe town where I live. Any chance dave could do it by mail?

[leadmic]

[QUOTE=boggerman]I am also looking at an efi swap for my 460, but I have pretty much ruled out speed/density setups (tbi type) in favor of mass-air. I have read that california model 460's were mass-air in 96-97, can anyone confirm this?

Hey Boggerman I can confirm this I have a 97 mass-air 460 and the smog book I have says they had them in 96 too. They were OBD2 calif. only. They had 24lb. high flow injectors and a 80mm mass air meter they were also sequential injection.
Leadmic

[boggerman]

Cool, any chance you could shoot a few underhood pics and email them to me? My sister has a '97 F250 with a 460 (49 state) that I can compare to. That would help me get started in the right direction.

[bobbywalter]

Originally Posted by boggerman

That will be difficult in the dirtwater, bfe town where I live. Any chance dave could do it by mail?

uhhh...well you will have to mail your rig to him so he can put it on his dyno.

but the later obd2 m/a setup may be the best way to go if you can find a complete setup for the right price. but you will need to run 3 o2's to keep the cel off.

[leadmic]

Originally Posted by boggerman

Cool, any chance you could shoot a few underhood pics and email them to me? My sister has a '97 F250 with a 460 (49 state) that I can compare to. That would help me get started in the right direction.

I might be able to get some pics next week. The intake looks just like the 351 pickup Mass air intake. It has a adapter tube that goes from the twin throttle bodie to one tube and the mass air meter is mounted on the air cleaner lid.
The big diffrence is in the computer and wireing the ECM has eight injector drivers insted of two plus the wireing to the injectors. Also the circutry and wireing for the MAss air meter. The ECM connector is a 104 pin insted of a 60.
I hope this helps Leadmic

[LNranger05]

I'm doing a 5.0/C6/NP208 swap in my 84 ranger, and I'm going the whole way by swapping from the 2.8 carb, to the 5.0 EFI, so wiring is definately not a direct swap deal. I've actually gone to the extreme, as none of my dash electronics worked properly when I bought the truck, so I am swapping the dash harness as well. The engine, fuel lines, and wiring is all out of an 88 E150.



You can check out my entire swap info here

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/428610/7

Brian

[bobbywalter]

well the obd1 harness is cake when lookin at the obd2 buddy. so swapping the complete system on the obd 2 when theres no dynotuner around to cut things down for ya is a good way to go...especially with an automatic.


i think your crazy for swapping in the van chassis harness. i would have went a robbed one out of a ranger so it fit better.. but at least you will gain alot of experience doing it this way lr05

[Fireguy50]

EFI sucks

[Paul Gagnon]

There is no crossover year for when the 302 "became" the 5.0L. There is no difference in displacement, only the system of measurement used. In the 1979 Ford Mustang brochure refered to the 302 as 5.0L and also offered as an option the infamous 5.0 emblems. The changes to the engine were gradual. There was no one year where a completely re-designed engine was introduced thus no "crossover year".

[LNranger05]

Originally Posted by bobbywalter

well the obd1 harness is cake when lookin at the obd2 buddy. so swapping the complete system on the obd 2 when theres no dynotuner around to cut things down for ya is a good way to go...especially with an automatic.


i think your crazy for swapping in the van chassis harness. i would have went a robbed one out of a ranger so it fit better.. but at least you will gain alot of experience doing it this way lr05

I didn't want to have to spend the money when I could use something that I already had, and know that it all worked. Sure I'm learning a lot, but oh well, I'll live, and I won't do it this way again if I don't have to.

Brian

[LNranger05]

Originally Posted by Paul Gagnon

There is no crossover year for when the 302 "became" the 5.0L. There is no difference in displacement, only the system of measurement used. In the 1979 Ford Mustang brochure refered to the 302 as 5.0L and also offered as an option the infamous 5.0 emblems. The changes to the engine were gradual. There was no one year where a completely re-designed engine was introduced thus no "crossover year".

I'm probably wrong, but the way I always understood it was that 302 was carb. and 5.0 was EFI. I just like to use 302 because it sounds cooler,

Brian

[Stoked]

Originally Posted by boggerman

I am also looking at an efi swap for my 460, but I have pretty much ruled out speed/density setups (tbi type) in favor of mass-air. I have read that california model 460's were mass-air in 96-97, can anyone confirm this?

My current plan is to machine my manifold for injector bungs, purchase the throttle body-to-manifold elbow and fuel rails from an efi-spyder setup, use the computer and harness from a mass-air 5.0 'stang, and aftermarket throttle body, mass-air sensor, and injectors to provide adequate air/fuel for the larger displacement. I imagine that some of the supercharged 5.0 applications should match up nicely with a relatively mild 460.

Advise, problems, solutions? I'm open to any of them.

why would you want to run a OBD II system? then your just trapped under the strickt emissions, if you want mass air you might as well just get a mustange A9L computer/wireharness/mass air meter then tune it with the (i think its called) SNEeecer or smthing close, im surpirsed that firguy hasnt said anything yet. but if your just looking at keeping a mild 460, why not just go with the factory EFI? you could use the stock intake manifold which is MPI for all years of the truck 460 (TBI is a chevy thing) it just would be a simpler swap if you used parts from a 88 or 89 rather than a 97, just my opinon though. i do think the Mustage Mass-air would be worth it, but not the OBDII. goodluck

[D60]

Originally Posted by John Deere Ranger

Heater Box modifications
I believe on almost all 5.0 conversions it is imperative to notch the heater plenum. I personally used a Heater box off a NON-A/C BII which takes up a lot less space giving me the sufficient room to clear my engine and not having to notch the heater box. If wishing to retain your A/C then you will have to notch the box.

Digging this thread back up. I've got questions specifically on retaining a/c with a 351 swap. Has anyone done it? Assume starting with a Gen 1 Ranger that had a/c from the factory. Can you adapt the 2.9 compressor to the 351, or do you use the 351 compressor and hook it up to the Ranger a/c system?

I've searched TRS, ORR, RPS but no luck finding this specific topic. If someone knows of a resource/thread I missed please post up and flame away!

[Blk69stang]

I've got a 351w in my '69 EB that came out of a '95 Ford pickup. It was a fuelie roller motor, but I slapped a 2bbl carb and intake on it just to get it running until I could figure out the EFI swap.

Additionally, I've been collecting the parts I'll need to do the swap. Wiring harnesses, intakes, stuff like that.

My question has to do with intakes. I've got the complete truck EFI intake for the 351, and as we all know it's extremely tall. I have 3" of body lift and would STILL need to cut out the hood to make it fit. I also have the complete intake from a 5.0 EFI ford car. This plenum is much shorter, and would easily clear the hood. Of course, the lower intake will not fit the 351 as it is obviously too narrow.

Basically, my plan was to use the car upper for hood clearnace, and mate it to the truck lower to fit my block.

But...

...of course ford was cool and made it so the upper intake plenums won't interchange between the two lower intakes (truck efi uses oval ports, car efi uses "square" ports, and both use different bolt patterns).

SO.... does anybody know of a car application that would have a 351 AND multi-port? Because I work at a parts store, and every car 351 application I can think up is carbureted, even into the '90s. Now, my books could be wrong, as that has happened before, but I have no way of knowing.

Does anybody know for sure if such a beast exists that I can snag a lower intake off of, should I look into machining an adapter to mate the car upper onto the truck lower, or should I just hike up my skirt and pony up the ching for an aftermarket intake?

Of course option number four would be to get out the bender and some tubing and custom make my own upper plenum, but that kinda seems like alot of work. And I'm lazy.

[theckel]

The "early" (93-95?) Lightnings and the 95 Mustang Cobra R came with EFI 351W's with the GT40 style intake, which is close as you're going to get. Ford Racing (SVO) used to sell the lower intake for the 351W separately but I don't think they're available new anymore. They show up on eBay regularly and go for anywhere from $250 on up, depending on condition, so if you found one of those and a GT40 or "regular" Cobra upper (the Explorer upper's might even fit) you'd be good to go.

[Jrod-13]

Does anyone have anymore info on the mustang MAF setup on a 460?
The way it seems to me, is I should be able to drop a 88' 460 in my truck, complete TB to oil pan, and simply run the complete Maf setup on it, along with the stock 24lb injectors, and get a MAFmeter calibrated for the 24's with stang computer.

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't run fine, even without buying a twEECer to tune it, right?

[Fireguy50]

The EFI 460 is crap IMO
250 more lbs, doesn't produce enough power, no upgrades for it.
intake and cylinder heads don't flow

For the same cost and effort you can put in a well built 351.
less weight, lots of upgrades avalible.


Anyway to answer your question. Don't mix the 2 tech questions.
Drop in the 460 with the typical EFI 460 swap articles.
Convert to MAF with the typical Mass Air articles.
baby steps makes it easier

[Mieser]

What is everyone doing for a fuel system?

Is there an easy EFI tank swap for the 73-79 Trucks? I would really like to see something baffled with an in-tank pump.

I found this company....nice EFI idea....but a little expensive.

http://www.mass-floefi.com/

[kpj]

Originally Posted by Fireguy50

The EFI 460 is crap IMO
250 more lbs, doesn't produce enough power, no upgrades for it.
intake and cylinder heads don't flow

For the same cost and effort you can put in a well built 351.
less weight, lots of upgrades avalible.


Anyway to answer your question. Don't mix the 2 tech questions.
Drop in the 460 with the typical EFI 460 swap articles.
Convert to MAF with the typical Mass Air articles.
baby steps makes it easier

Are there certain version's of the 460 that won't work with EFI from another 460? I know the GM 454s have 2-3 version's that don't interact well, unless you swap out pretty much everything...heads, intake, etc... If I bought a 460 from a 79, would I be able to make any 460 EFI unit work on it without having to swap out the heads and such?