No not what you're thinking. I'm on the fence about fixing or junking what is now my 72 Ford F250 pickup (RWD). It has the worst engine that has permanently turned me away from ever buying one of these pieces of garbage.
Drivetrain looks like this:
Engine: Ford 390 FE 2v
Trans: Borg T-18
Rear: Dana 60-3.73
I have options to swap in a np435 or regear the rear to 3.54 but I'm not interested in either of those things. Instead, I'm looking to toss the engine and swap in an American 360 2v from a 75 Matador. I know the Ford FE is tired and puking itself every day. It's way too expensive to keep repairing and to overhaul is destroying any available plans for at least the next two years. The body is so heavy that I already need something that produces much better power. I know plenty of you guys have taken one of these piles of junk to use as the heart of a Jeep, I'm just wondering how hard it is to do the opposite and if anyone has any details on the matter.
So what is the issue with the current drivetrain? Thats a solid setup you have.
You will gain nothing by swapping the T18 for a NP435, they are basically the same gearing. Going from a 3.73 to a 3.50 rear end ratio is a waste of time unless you are trying to gain top end speed or lower highway cruising rpm's.
The Ford 390 is a great motor and usually responds well to a aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb with the stock cam. If you decide to spring for a new cam it gets even better.
The AMC 360 will cost even more to rebuild or build than the 390 does.
It has the worst engine...the Ford FE is tired and puking itself every day. It's way too expensive to keep repairing and to overhaul is destroying any available plans for at least the next two years. The body is so heavy that I already need something that produces much better power.
I'll elaborate. The engine oil is low wasting 1qt per week. The radiator is cracked and was slow dripping 1gal until a few days ago when the water pump decided to start pissing 1gal per hour. This is my last daily driver that sees 95% freeway. I'm dead serious. This cruises @3K for an hour twice per day and that's only when I need to work. During my time off it sees more freeway just so I can go picking in the yards.
I've been to truck fest this year. The only thing remotely close to this for sale was a twin 4v intake quoted $800. Not feasible. I can machine a new intake from one of these plenums but then I'm looking at $350-500 carbs a piece. Again, not feasible.
For that to be the case I would be spending an estimated $6300 on parts and shop service alone. All the labor would have to be mine. NOT interested. I said swap, not rebuild. The real point is to buy myself more time while I'm finishing the I6 super stroker for my car. Once that's done I don't care anymore. It should have been finished January but this truck has been a revolving crisis since the last Ford blew up around Easter. It's garbage, I hate it, have MASSIVE anxiety attacks just behind the wheel of this thing and coming within inches of slamming into a new Jetta this morning really isn't helping. I come out of the borderlands and whenever I have to deal with civilization that usually involves miles upon miles of gridlock because of perpetual construction here and dumbasses in the city that can't read lane change signs.
See, I want to agree with that. I really do. I think this is real coherent thinking and true to what I need but this Ford engine just doesn't want to stay in one piece.
I'm thinking a good low mile AM 360 2v will outperform a borderline detonating FORD FE 2v with 200K+ on it. The only problem is the fact that either engine will ultimately be charged with the task of moving a 4 ton chassis.
I've thought about dropping in a 460 but I'm not sure if it will fit. I'd like to drop in a 302 and a 5 speed but can't find either or. Diesel anything would be badass but again, too scarce.
I am not sur if you are serious, or just trying to get a reaction, but broncoformudv is correct. You will gain nothing by swapping in an NP435, and the 390 is a solid engine. An AMC 360 will get you nothing over a 390. Also, why would you want higher gears if you are complaining about not having enough power?
I ran a 390 in my highboy for the first 20 years that i owned it.It had a factory S code 4V manifold with a 600 Holley and a aftermarket cam that was basically a 482 cobra jet grind it was a beast the only complaint I had was feeding it.
Replaced it with a 4BT which delivers similar power with 1/2 the fuel requirements.........My two cents.
IDK where you are, sounds like you're in the middle of nowhere, but i see running ford 460/400/351/302's with tranny's on Craigslist for around $500-$700 pretty frequently. You could repower that truck for around $1000, and it would be an almost bolt in swap...compared to making a non ford engine/tranny work. Sell that 390 you have for a couple hundred as a rebuildable core and recoup some $$.
I don't know the condition of the internals for this engine but I suspect they're bordering on bad since I'm having so much trouble with it all the time. Low oil pressure after filling to the full mark and then low coolant is lethal enough. I DO have access to a spare 390 FE crankcase that has been sitting in storage for a few years but it clearly needs to be line bored, honed and so on. My physical strength prevents me from bothering with this idea. I have never built a V block because I think they're all absolutely ridiculous but I only recently have interest in one that has been sitting in the junkyard in what should NOT be a parts car. All of it looks good. Too good. Oh well.
Only every morning that I get up. I look at Summit Racing every day but not for this stuff. I've been looking at a set of rocker arms for a 4.0L but they're nearly $50 higher than they were when my project first took off and I'm wondering if I can settle for something that is less hassle. All I need to do is make a choice and I'm done with the whole thing. I don't check the classifieds on this forum. Pirate is a last resort for me, along with that Prius idea.
Honestly it sounds like you guys know what this engine is capable of but don't really understand the problems that I have with it at the moment. I'm starting to believe that it may be easier to just build another 390FE and drop it in. I have lots of parts for these scattered throughout storage and a few nonfunctional copies of this truck. I have no faith in the last functional one either.
I typed a scathing reply last night but my phone ran out of battery before I was finished.
Suffice to say, the gist of it was that in your rambling, sometimes incoherent responses, you're hinting at all kinds of things, making wild assumptions, and putting forth untruths as facts without explaining where you got that info or why.
Your truck is too heavy, your truck has bad brakes, your truck doesn't have enough power, you hate your truck so much you won't even buy a $30 water pump or try to patch or fix a broken radiator or find the source of your oil leal. But for some reason you want to engage in an esoteric and inefficient engine swap instead of just dealing with the problems you have?
Nothing you've said makes any sense at all to me. The engine swap is a dumb idea and I would take any stock engine for a 70's Ford including a 300 and a 302 over an AMC 360 v8. Even the Jeep guys don't run those damn things.
But, if you hate your truck so much and it's not reliable, you should probably just kick it on down the line to someone willing to turn a few wrenches to keep it on the road, and go buy a fuel injected Ranger or s10.
This is really all I wanted to hear. I don't know anything about the FE series engines to do any real world comparison. All I know is that I have three trucks with this exact drivetrain that blow up every year because they're underpowered and overweight. I'm not genuinely concerned with what happens to any of them after I no longer need them. I just wanted to know if my engine swap idea is at all feasible and you answered that good enough just now.
I would really like to see a 302 in the junkyard but it's not going to happen. My options are between creating a MASSIVE mess in the yard rebuilding more Ford FE garbage or swapping in an AM 360 from a junkyard 100 miles from here. Neither of these things are feasible and I found enough insight here.
But, if you hate your truck so much and it's not reliable, you should probably just kick it on down the line to someone willing to turn a few wrenches to keep it on the road, and go buy a fuel injected Ranger or s10.
I would but my hands are tied. I don't have $$$$ to drop on a used Ranger and I can't scrap any of these trucks. I've never been interested in driving a pickup. I have plenty of parts to fix the series of problems plaguing the current one but I literally have one hour in the day to do anything else but work and most of that has already been spent here today.
I agree with all the opinions against the 360.
The amc v8s are very poor power motors. The head designs
Are very restrictive, and making one half way decent is
Going to take a lot of money. In stock form the 360 will be a
Dog in a heavy truck. Fix what you have or sell it for something
Else. The amc v8 is a waste of time and 30x more work.
Ford put fe's in trucks that grossed over 26k. I found one under the hood of a tandem axle dump in the junkyard that according the dot shit in the glove box, was on the road until a few years prior and was tagged for like 40 tons.
I can only imagine the slowness. But apparently the engine put up with it for 40 years.
The FE's in the medium duty Fords were actually FT's the difference is that they came with forged steel cranks and rods and the cranks had larger Dia. journals and the pistons were cast around a steel insert in the wrist pin bore area.those changes were to make them hold up better to the stresses of those heavy vehicles and the duty cycle that went with them.
The 390 was an ideal truck/tow vehicle power plant making great torque mhere you used/needed it most,as i stated before their only drawback was feeding them as they were designed when gas was 25 cents a gallon.
I don't understand running shit with a depressurized cooking system and a failing water pump then blaming the truck or the motor for being unreliable. Go buy a brand new $50k f250 and punch a hole in the radiator and drive it down the road and it won't last long either (and neither will an AMC terd for that matter).
That falls under what we like to call "user error."
Fuck, you can buy a complete master engine rebuild kit for a FE off of e-bay for like $350. That and a few hundred in machine work and you can have a fresh rebuilt engine done right... Don't be a dumbass.
Radiators are a few hundred max, get one with a thicker core/more rows for better cooling. I bet you aren't running a shroud right now either right? And probably that little pussy 4 blade fan that came with the damn thing stock? Buy yourself a good 6 blade fan and pull some air through that radiator and that'll help a bunch.
Swap in a 460. use mounts from a 73-79 2wd with a 460 and truck exhaust manifolds.
Not any better on gas, but you will have the potential for lots of power.
I remember having a 460 in a 73 T-bird with LOTS of power at the wheels and in Death Valley all day long at 127º without any issues whatsoever. Beautiful ride and scary potential. Not sure if I would want to be in one of those in my morning rush and I'm not sure how the 460 would behave in these trucks unless I were to build it and drop it in the lightest chassis.
I also have a thief problem today. Someone waited until I left for work and they stole my engine hoist. Another sudden hurdle that insures these ideas never leave the ground.
Yeah, but see, the brakes are so bad, and a 360 swap would fix all that, plus they run without coolant, but anyway he is just a driver and mechanic so what does he care? Plus his dad left him nos fe parts, so of course it only makes sense to use an AMC engine now. You understand.
You missed the part where I have absolutely NO faith in any of these truck engines. I've been busy doing AMC swaps with other vehicles earlier in the year and for some reason I wondered what it would be like in a Ford. All of you have obviously tried it or you wouldn't have responded so if swapping another FE is such a great idea then I most likely wouldn't be stuck in a revolving door of transportation disasters OH WAIT I AM. :mad3: My daily driver has too much wrong with it in electronics, brakes, the engine, transmission and weight distribution for me to bother building it back up. At least the rear is okay. Jesus...
sounds like you have a transportation problem, not a 390 problem.
all the suggestions in this thread are much cheaper (and easier) than swapping an AMC 360.
if you are too weak to rebuild a 390, then you are too weak to swap in totally different motor that will require tons of fab work and swapping to get it to fit.
Yeah, but see, the brakes are so bad, and a 360 swap would fix all that, plus they run without coolant, but anyway he is just a driver and mechanic so what does he care? Plus his dad left him nos fe parts, so of course it only makes sense to use an AMC engine now. You understand.
Minivan? What kind of budget do think he is working with? He would have to save up $500 and drive all the way in to billings. Geez. Clearly you're not using your head.
Good God damn, get real already. Your daily driver is simply old and worn out, so no shit it's not gonna act like a new truck. Like a crappy 360 is gonna fix your radiator, bad wiring, brakes, etc? And "weight distribution" problem? Wtf? It's a pickup truck, not a sports car; it was designed like that. :shaking: And judging ALL FE motors based on your experiences with ONE old worn out one? I know many people who say the FE is one of the most reliable engines they've ever had.
You have a lack of time problem, a lack of money problem, but worst of all, you have a lack of realistic expectations problem. None of these will be solved by putting an off brand engine in your truck.
Everyone here is giving you good advice but it sounds like you came here for affirmation, not advice. The reason nobody here (or anywhere for that matter) has tried this awesome swap you've conjured up, is that it's a bad idea. We wheel Fords here, not Jeeps or crappy AMC products for a good reason. But it's cool, you can go ahead and buck the naysayers and go ahead with your plan. Be sure to come back and tell us how wrong we all are after this magical AMC engine fixes all of your problems.
My best advice for you is to put it up on the classifieds for a straight up trade. Truck + new old stock parts for a cheap Camry or Civic with less than 200K miles. Pass it to someone who has the time to fix it up and use it for it's intended purpose; being a truck. Enjoy your new-to-you decently reliable and cheap to fix daily driver.
My best advice for you is to put it up on the classifieds for a straight up trade. Truck + new old stock parts for a cheap Camry or Civic with less than 200K miles. Pass it to someone who has the time to fix it up and use it for it's intended purpose; being a truck. Enjoy your new-to-you decently reliable and cheap to fix daily driver.
Right here^^^^..trade it with all the parts straight up..not for a civic.. for an early 90's chevy/ford/dodge 3/4 ton. 80% of the shit you said is wrong are easy, relatively cheap fixes water pump,brakes,etc,.... shit JB weld the F'ing radiator if you're broke. In my less financially sound years my vehicles were held together with hose clamps, zip ties, jb weld, straps, 4x4's..anything i had to keep it going..somewhat safely..lol. what do you do that only allows you an hour a day to do this stuff? take a day off work and deal with some of the issues. What makes more sense, loose a days pay or have your vehicle break down and loose a job/transportation/etc?
Be a man and figure out how to cobble it back together so we can post about it in the fail thread.:shaking:
Interesting points.
1) there is nothing electronic on a 1972 to go wrong except the radio.
2) these 1972 trucks have ran and drove and worked for 40 years until they meet the op, at which point they all coincidentally fail.
3) op is worried about theft and vandalism yet driving a truck I could jimmy into and start with a coat hanger and a pocket knife.
4) regular cab trucks are bad for babysitting.
5) swapping 360's won't fix the weight distribution or the brakes, which op continually complains about.
6) if you compared driving one hour each way to work with a 390 to driving one hour each day to work in a geo metro (let alone a Honda civic) you will find it vastly superior for braking, babysitting, reliability, and etc, and the good news is that the fuel savings alone will equal the car payment if you're unable to swing the fifteen hundred bucks it would take to buy a used one that wasn't a total heap (and that's roughly equivalent to the rough market value of the truck that you absolutely hate, but don't own, but are worried about getting stolen, that you can't bear to part with, that has bad brakes, that your dad left you parts for, that you just drive, to and from your job, and to babysitting).
Dude, just do like everybody else on the draw does, find somebody with a cheap car on craigslist and ask them if they'll hold it "until your check comes in"
I can't fathom how you thought a 40 year old truck and though it would equal a new one. My 89 K1500 is nothing like my father in laws 2010 Bighorn but shit, I only paid $800 dollars too. and I have a newer car from running around.
Are you one of those single mothers that call me when I sell cheap shit and ask if I'll guarantee it to haul around your baby? :laughing:
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