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Old 05-17-2005, 08:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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400 vs 460

I have heard debate after debate as to what to build and put into a truck. But I am looking for some real answers here. Let me give some history.

I am rebuilding my wife's tow truck (for horses mind you). It is a 1978 250, long bed, supercab with the Camper Special. Stock 400m and auto. (Well, stock everything actually) We need this to be a serious tow machine for our horse trailer, camping trailer, car trailer whatever.

The question is, do I rebuild the 400m as I already have it and there will be no changes needed to put it back in? Or do I find a 4x2 with a 460, rebuild it, and find a way to make it work? I do have fabbing skills, just do not want to change everything if I dont have to.

Also, does anyone make a fuel injection kit for either motor? And if they do, is it worth the money? I am thinking that the old addage, "There is no replacement for displacement" will come to play here.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just making sure, you want a "serious tow rig".

Id say neither. Id do a cummins conversion. Wouldnt be that much more than buying a rebuilding a 460. Plus you get 15-20+ mpg and can outpull any motor mentioned so far. Dont wast time with 400. http://fordcummins.com/
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Swapping a 460 in place of a 400m is very easy. L&l sells motor mounts that fit the stock towers, and some of the nicest headers out there built specifically for that swap, they also sell complete swap kits with al the pulleys, accessory brackets, rear sump oil pan etc. It is basically a bolt in swap if you go that route. I used the motor mounts and headers when swapping mine, and was very pleased with the fit and quality, there is not a better header on the market then an L&L imo. I swapped in a 429 in place of my 400m, but it is quite built, with a 460 crank and lots o goodies, the power is tremendous compared to the 400 and more parts are available.
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The cummins conversion will a lot more than building up a 460. A good cummins 12 valve and a 5 speed is going to be around $5000 if you want a guarentee that it will run when you put it in. It would be worth every penny though.
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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run a diesel over the gasser. you will be happier in the long run.

I am running a 400 and I love it. I like how everyone bags 400's makes parts for mine cheaper
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I think the 460 would be the best bang for the buck. the wiring will be less of a hastle to run a carb setup on the 460. you might have to get a different brain box but it should plug and play.

the cummings or powerstroke would give the best performance for towing, but if price is a big concern then you might want to look in another direction.

they make fuel injection for the 460 but I don't remember seeing it for the 400. I run the 351M which is closely related to the 400 so if anyone has any info on efi for the 400 I would be interested.
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Why would he need a different brain box. The 460 and 400 can use the same dizzy's. Just wire in the correct firing order.


I am currently working on EFI for my 400. You can read alot in this thread. http://www.broncotech.com/cgi-bin/ul...c;f=5;t=003046
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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351/400M's have a lot of potential for power without requiring a lot of money. The 460 swap would be the easiest way to get more low end torque. It's basically a bolt-in as you can see. The Cummins swap idea is awesome but also $$$.
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The cummins isnt as much as you think though. I bought a 91 cummins dually with 150k for $1200. Runs and drives fine and 150k is nothin for these guys.
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Old 05-17-2005, 01:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I vote the 460. Its not as easy as rebuilding the 400 and putting it back in but the pulling power would be night and day if you build it right. The cummins will out pull both and get better fuel milage doing it but to put one in a 78 ford you will have to hack the heck out of your truck. Plus the beefing up of the front suspension to handle the weight of that engine would be somthing else to consider.
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Old 05-17-2005, 01:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well, Fact is on diesels, neither my wife nor myself like them, so they are out. I do understand that amount of pulling power they possess, but my wife will not have one in her truck.

As for the info on the 460, I will look into the L&L info and see what will be available. Also, I know very little about diesels and quite a bit mroe about working on gassers, so that route would also be my best bet. I do not like letting anyone work on my rigs.

Thanks everyone, and if anyone else has info, keep it coming.
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I swapped a 429 in place of my 351M and it was relatively simple. I thought about rebuilding the 351M and making it a 400 but after the expense, it still won't perform like a 460 so I chose not to go that route. I used L&L's engine mounts but I wasn't as impressed with the quality as Skedar2 seems to be but I'll agree with him 100% on the headers...very nice.

If I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with a 460 crank instead to give a little better low end grunt over the 429, plus you have a lot more piston options for compression ratio. For towing, a mildly built 460 with nothing fancy should do the trick. If you ever thought you needed more power you could always stroke it to 514 cubes if you wanted to...
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Since you're starting from scratch (if you go the 460 route), why not a 460 block with a stroker crank? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 500"???


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Old 05-17-2005, 03:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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if I were building a tow rig motor I would not try to beef it too much. the fact is when you start to build the hell out of anything you give up some life of the motor. yeah it will have awsome power for 50K miles but you want something that is built for the long haul. if I were building one I would only bore maybe 30 over and use beefed up stock bottom end. then run a mild cam and upgrade to roller if the funds allow. then run the typicle bolt on stuff.....intake, headers, ignition.......also beef the tranny while you have it apart.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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460 all the way... 10 times better than the 400.. mine has been great.. truck has 138K on it and i dont burn a drop of oil...gets better mileage than my cousins 400..
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Old 05-18-2005, 05:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHOPPEDBII
if I were building a tow rig motor I would not try to beef it too much. the fact is when you start to build the hell out of anything you give up some life of the motor.
We are talking about the 460 here, not a small block chevy ! Do the 460
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Old 05-18-2005, 06:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah, build a 460 for it and sell me the 400. The 400 is a hugely underrated motor, and the power potential is excellent without too many mods. I talked to an engine builder who said it was one of the most efficient motors made...
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Old 05-18-2005, 08:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Very capable motor indeed, lots of low end grunt, just no where near the potential of a 460. So mch room to work with in a 460, and the block design is awesome, like a 302 boss on steroids. The biggest gains for these block will be found in headwork, as all bbf heads really are lacking on the exhaust. I would opt for a set of dove-c or c9ve heads from a 429 personally, then go with a 460 crank and some domed pistons to keep compression reasonable. Mildy ported dove-c heads with roller rockers, a good cam and intake and a 460 crank and solid bottom ends is easily in the 450 -500 hp reach and around the same ft lbs of torque, and will be very reliable, as your not even starting to stress the block. That is what I have ran hard for the past 3 years with absolutely no problems to date.
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Old 05-18-2005, 08:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If you want to see some real world experiences and build ups with results for both the 400 and 460 go to www.ford-trucks.com and read up on the 335 and 385 series motors - they have their own dedicated forums. Tons of info, and lots of debate on this on-going battle about the 400 vs. 460.

Good luck.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I see no battle

The 460 if you know how to build one will hand the 400 it ass. Simply put. Not to say the 400 does not have its place. But against a 460 it will lose.
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Old 05-18-2005, 05:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If you want to see some real world experiences and build ups with results for both the 400 and 460 go to www.ford-trucks.com


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Old 05-18-2005, 10:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Also, does anyone make a fuel injection kit for either motor?
http://www.howell-efi.com/index.html .........Hans
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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the only disadvantage to the 460 is gas mileage my 78 1/2 ton supercab with factory 460 gets about 9 miles to the gal empty on the highway plenty of power. the 400 may do slightly better on mileage but less power unless you put alot of work in to it. also check these guys out 73/79 pu 78/79 bronco they already have asked and replied to these type of questions about ford trucks of that era esp the 460 motor
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatmeal



I was going to run the howell TBI setup for my bronco. but I decided to run the mustang stuff instead and end up with sequential EFI over TBI.
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Old 05-19-2005, 04:39 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I was going to run the howell TBI setup for my bronco. but I decided to run the mustang stuff instead and end up with sequential EFI over TBI.
Don't know of any Mustang that ever came wiyh a 400M What are you going to use for an intake manifold?........Hans
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