axle gurus wanted - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

72hiboy4x4 · 07-09-2005, 07:58 AM

Hi there guys!
I have a '72 F-260 (factory hiboy) that I am converting into a wrecker. It has a dana 60 (with posi) in the rear now with single rear wheels.
what I want to do is put dual rear wheels on it for stability, without causing any inherent weakness but just extending the lugnuts or something.
I picked up an F350 for parts, thinking it had a d-60 under the rear (it is a dually)
well my mistake, it is a dana 70. so I'm thinking bummer, won't work.
but after reading a bunch of articles on it, I am beginning to think I can take the outer parts of the d-70, from the brake backing plates out, and bolt them to my d-60 axle. then re-use my d-60 axle shafts.
this brings up a host of ?'s.
1) will the d-70 backing plates actually bolt up to the D-60 axle housing?
2) are my d-60 axles long enough to properly engage the diff?
3) Should I use the master cyl. from the F350? arent they all the same for this app?
4) what am I overlooking on this? I am not an axle expert, but a decent shadetree mechanic.

Or should I just put the D-70 under my truck, then find a locker for it? (gotta love the lockers) just a lot of $$$ for a junk truck
the only issues I can see here are scratch-building new u-bolts and spring blocks (lift blocks), and maybe changing the pinion yolk or driveshaft yolk to fit. plus the dough for the locker and install. which I dont have! LOL

bremen242 · 07-09-2005, 09:29 AM

1) probably
2) probably long enough, but not thick enough, and different spline count
3) again should be the same, most 3/4-1tons (as long as they are FF with big drums) should use the same MC
4) Won't know until you do it.

If you get a 70 with a 2 piece carrier, you can detroit it for around $350 (same type of carrier that the 14bolt chebby uses)

a local spring shop should be able to bend you some ubolts for a couple bux (30 for my last set for a 1/2 ton). you should be able to use your current spring blocks.

72hiboy4x4 · 07-09-2005, 05:53 PM

Hey thanks for the quick reply!

on answer #2, how can the spline count change? I will be using the same axles that I started with in the d-60. I have read off this site's tach articles that the outer flange of a d-60 axle shaft will bolt to a d-70 hub.
REF:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/D70/D70.htm (16th pic down)

I'm just wondering if its LONG enough to engage the carrier with the dually outer hubs installed.
the axle spindles seem to bo close enough that they will work without too many problems.

I will still have to custom-build new spring blocks if I swap the d-70 in. the housing is 3.562" in diameter,(REF above link) where the d-60 is somewhere around 3" diam. the holes that the u-bolts slide in are too narrow for the d-70's u-bolts.
you are right on about the $$ for bending u-bolts. thats what it cost when I re-did mine on this d-60 last year when I installed the 1 ton suspension.

bremen242 · 07-09-2005, 08:26 PM

if you read the article, you would have seen this pic....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0/Dcp_4171.jpg

comparing a 60 shaft to a d70 shaft.

the problem with that is a dana 60 shaft is 1.31" and a dana 70 shaft is 1.5". even if it is long enough, you'd have to swap the side gears to 30 spline, and that is the whole point of upgrade to a 70, to get a heavier tube and 1.5" shafts.

measure it from hub to hub to see. some duallies aren't any wider than a SRW, the offset of the rims make up the width. some don't.

72hiboy4x4 · 07-09-2005, 09:09 PM

Actually I did read the article, thats why I am even thinking about this.
I guess we are not understanding each other.
I am just trying to see if this is feasible......
I dont want to use the d-70 axles in the d-60 housing. I want to re-use the d-60 axles. I want to use the outer parts of the d-70, from the brake backing plate to the drum, on my d-60 housing. then install the d-60 axle shafts back into the d-60 housing. thereby having a dually d-60 rear axle with d-70 brake parts. no changing the side gears to 30 spline because they already match the axle that are currently installed in the housing, so I know they fit.
the spindle seems to be close enough that I could use the d-60 axles in the d-70 hubs.
the d-70 is a flatbed rear axle. from what I understand, and measure out, it is about 11" narrower than a normal P/U dually rear axle.
I wish I had the time to actually tear it apart right now and try this, but other projects are ahead of this one. Just looking for info, so I know whether to sell the d-70 or not.
thanks for your help on this. I learn new things every time I get involved in old junk like this!

bremen242 · 07-09-2005, 09:39 PM

I see what you are say. I believe the hubs will swap, don't know if the dullies hubs will offset the shaft, my guess is no, but you'll have to look a little closer.

72hiboy4x4 · 07-09-2005, 09:53 PM

thanks again! I will keep looking into this and let ya know what I find out (if anything) LOL

masterbeavis · 07-09-2005, 11:07 PM

My vote is to run the D70 and find a limited slip for it, or a locker. The 60 would probably do ok for you, but myself personally, I would save myself the hassle of swapping stuff out and fooling around, run the 70, have BEEF. Hopefully, the D60, and D70 have the same gear ratio??? If not, why not sell the D70 and buy a dualie D60 with the 1.5" 35 spline shafts (assuming they made a D60 dualie??)

Dumb question, why not just buy a set of budd wheels, do the lugnut thing, and call it good on the D60 you have now? Would save alot of hassle I would think....

Mr.N · 07-11-2005, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72hiboy4x4

2) are my d-60 axles long enough to properly engage the diff?

Easy enought to find out, get your tape measure out....

72hiboy4x4 · 07-11-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

My vote is to run the D70 and find a limited slip for it, or a locker. The 60 would probably do ok for you, but myself personally, I would save myself the hassle of swapping stuff out and fooling around, run the 70, have BEEF. Hopefully, the D60, and D70 have the same gear ratio??? If not, why not sell the D70 and buy a dualie D60 with the 1.5" 35 spline shafts (assuming they made a D60 dualie??)

DO THEY? I DON'T KNOW

Well, I think I might just do this and swap over to the D70. it is the right gear ratio and I think a lot less hassles to use than trying to convert the D60.
I really don't need that much 'BEEF' but what the heck, eh?
thanks for the answers and opinions! it will be put to good use.
anyone need a decent D60 with a good locker (posi,tru-trac, whatever,(stock FORD))?

Quote:

Dumb question, why not just buy a set of budd wheels, do the lugnut thing, and call it good on the D60 you have now? Would save alot of hassle I would think

what exactly is the 'LUGNUT THING' I can't find anywhere that can say exactly what to do/ is involved, or use for replacement lug bolts. I have a full set of Budd wheels (+ about 3 or 4) so thats no problem.

Jrod-13 · 07-12-2005, 07:38 AM

just run the 70

if your building a wrecker, you need a real rearend.
a 60 is a entry level full floater rearend, usualy found under 3/4 tons.
any real 1 ton, especialy dually is always going to have a 70,80, 14 bolt, or sterling under it.

72hiboy4x4 · 07-12-2005, 08:37 PM

JROD-13 - uuummm this is a 3/4 ton truck - I'm just building it for an off-road recovery and work truck. It has had the boom on it for 2 years now and the d-60 works just fine for me.
I want the extra stability of the dually tires, I don't really need the beef.
that being said, I just posted that I was going to use the d-70, so why are u insulting the d-60? I really want to hear your opinion about my D-44 front end!
my F350 Crew Cab (Centurion) has a Sterling 10.25" BTW.

07-09-2005, 07:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
72hiboy4x4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Member # 45540 Location: Shawnee, OK Posts: 210	axle gurus wanted Hi there guys! I have a '72 F-260 (factory hiboy) that I am converting into a wrecker. It has a dana 60 (with posi) in the rear now with single rear wheels. what I want to do is put dual rear wheels on it for stability, without causing any inherent weakness but just extending the lugnuts or something. I picked up an F350 for parts, thinking it had a d-60 under the rear (it is a dually) well my mistake, it is a dana 70. so I'm thinking bummer, won't work. but after reading a bunch of articles on it, I am beginning to think I can take the outer parts of the d-70, from the brake backing plates out, and bolt them to my d-60 axle. then re-use my d-60 axle shafts. this brings up a host of ?'s. 1) will the d-70 backing plates actually bolt up to the D-60 axle housing? 2) are my d-60 axles long enough to properly engage the diff? 3) Should I use the master cyl. from the F350? arent they all the same for this app? 4) what am I overlooking on this? I am not an axle expert, but a decent shadetree mechanic. Or should I just put the D-70 under my truck, then find a locker for it? (gotta love the lockers) just a lot of $$$ for a junk truck the only issues I can see here are scratch-building new u-bolts and spring blocks (lift blocks), and maybe changing the pinion yolk or driveshaft yolk to fit. plus the dough for the locker and install. which I dont have! LOL

07-09-2005, 08:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
bremen242 Granite Guru Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 28687 Location: GANS Posts: 866	if you read the article, you would have seen this pic.... http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0/Dcp_4171.jpg comparing a 60 shaft to a d70 shaft. the problem with that is a dana 60 shaft is 1.31" and a dana 70 shaft is 1.5". even if it is long enough, you'd have to swap the side gears to 30 spline, and that is the whole point of upgrade to a 70, to get a heavier tube and 1.5" shafts. measure it from hub to hub to see. some duallies aren't any wider than a SRW, the offset of the rims make up the width. some don't. Last edited by bremen242; 07-09-2005 at 08:30 PM.

07-12-2005, 07:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jrod-13 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17313 Location: Tower, MN Posts: 2,794	just run the 70 if your building a wrecker, you need a real rearend. a 60 is a entry level full floater rearend, usualy found under 3/4 tons. any real 1 ton, especialy dually is always going to have a 70,80, 14 bolt, or sterling under it. __________________ A recent survay of over 1000 trailer parks in the southeast found the 350 chevy out numbered the mullet by nearly 4:1, draw your own conclusion.

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07-09-2005, 09:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
bremen242 Granite Guru Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 28687 Location: GANS Posts: 866	1) probably 2) probably long enough, but not thick enough, and different spline count 3) again should be the same, most 3/4-1tons (as long as they are FF with big drums) should use the same MC 4) Won't know until you do it. If you get a 70 with a 2 piece carrier, you can detroit it for around $350 (same type of carrier that the 14bolt chebby uses) a local spring shop should be able to bend you some ubolts for a couple bux (30 for my last set for a 1/2 ton). you should be able to use your current spring blocks.

07-09-2005, 05:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
72hiboy4x4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Member # 45540 Location: Shawnee, OK Posts: 210	Hey thanks for the quick reply! on answer #2, how can the spline count change? I will be using the same axles that I started with in the d-60. I have read off this site's tach articles that the outer flange of a d-60 axle shaft will bolt to a d-70 hub. REF: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/D70/D70.htm (16th pic down) I'm just wondering if its LONG enough to engage the carrier with the dually outer hubs installed. the axle spindles seem to bo close enough that they will work without too many problems. I will still have to custom-build new spring blocks if I swap the d-70 in. the housing is 3.562" in diameter,(REF above link) where the d-60 is somewhere around 3" diam. the holes that the u-bolts slide in are too narrow for the d-70's u-bolts. you are right on about the $$ for bending u-bolts. thats what it cost when I re-did mine on this d-60 last year when I installed the 1 ton suspension.

07-09-2005, 09:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
72hiboy4x4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Member # 45540 Location: Shawnee, OK Posts: 210	Actually I did read the article, thats why I am even thinking about this. I guess we are not understanding each other. I am just trying to see if this is feasible...... I dont want to use the d-70 axles in the d-60 housing. I want to re-use the d-60 axles. I want to use the outer parts of the d-70, from the brake backing plate to the drum, on my d-60 housing. then install the d-60 axle shafts back into the d-60 housing. thereby having a dually d-60 rear axle with d-70 brake parts. no changing the side gears to 30 spline because they already match the axle that are currently installed in the housing, so I know they fit. the spindle seems to be close enough that I could use the d-60 axles in the d-70 hubs. the d-70 is a flatbed rear axle. from what I understand, and measure out, it is about 11" narrower than a normal P/U dually rear axle. I wish I had the time to actually tear it apart right now and try this, but other projects are ahead of this one. Just looking for info, so I know whether to sell the d-70 or not. thanks for your help on this. I learn new things every time I get involved in old junk like this!

07-09-2005, 09:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
bremen242 Granite Guru Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 28687 Location: GANS Posts: 866	I see what you are say. I believe the hubs will swap, don't know if the dullies hubs will offset the shaft, my guess is no, but you'll have to look a little closer.

07-09-2005, 09:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
72hiboy4x4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Member # 45540 Location: Shawnee, OK Posts: 210	thanks again! I will keep looking into this and let ya know what I find out (if anything) LOL

07-09-2005, 11:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
masterbeavis Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9468 Location: Eldorado BFE, East of sac Posts: 2,827	My vote is to run the D70 and find a limited slip for it, or a locker. The 60 would probably do ok for you, but myself personally, I would save myself the hassle of swapping stuff out and fooling around, run the 70, have BEEF. Hopefully, the D60, and D70 have the same gear ratio??? If not, why not sell the D70 and buy a dualie D60 with the 1.5" 35 spline shafts (assuming they made a D60 dualie??) Dumb question, why not just buy a set of budd wheels, do the lugnut thing, and call it good on the D60 you have now? Would save alot of hassle I would think....

07-12-2005, 08:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
72hiboy4x4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Member # 45540 Location: Shawnee, OK Posts: 210	JROD-13 - uuummm this is a 3/4 ton truck - I'm just building it for an off-road recovery and work truck. It has had the boom on it for 2 years now and the d-60 works just fine for me. I want the extra stability of the dually tires, I don't really need the beef. that being said, I just posted that I was going to use the d-70, so why are u insulting the d-60? I really want to hear your opinion about my D-44 front end! my F350 Crew Cab (Centurion) has a Sterling 10.25" BTW.