CTM's and 38's - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

ARokCrwlr · 04-02-2002, 05:47 PM

Anyone here running CTM's with 38" tires? What kind of wheeling have they survived? I am wanting to bump up from 36's and I am trying to find out if the d44 will survive. It would definitely be the cheaper route vs a d60. Let's hear the war stories.

Cherokee Paul · 04-02-2002, 06:38 PM

Was thinking of going this route myself, along with Superior or Warn shafts..
Definately cheaper then buying a 60 and rebuilding it, but then I started thinking.. Where's the next breaking point going to be? What I'm afraid of is moving it into the differential.. would hate to start breaking R&P's or carriers instead of u-joints..

Kurtastrophe · 04-02-2002, 07:31 PM

My vote goes to the Dana 44 knuckles breaking next.

Rubicrawler · 04-02-2002, 07:38 PM

Did you happen to read Lance's Tech Article on CTM's?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/productreviews/ctm/index.html

All you questions are answered here!

Cherokee Paul · 04-02-2002, 08:11 PM

Ok, here's the real question then, and yes I've read the review.

on a full sized '79 Bronco, I want to run large tires.. 38, or possibly even 42's..
Should I just bite the bullet, and go with a 60, costing me nearly 2 grand by the time I re-gear, lock, 35 outers, etc..

Or for half the cost, go with a 44 built with moly axles, and CTM joints?

The smart side of me says only a 60 will withstand that kind of abuse...
The miser in me says that I could probably get a 44 to work..

The wild side of me says I should just buy 2 1/2 ton axles to put in there..

D60 · 04-02-2002, 08:42 PM

Dude, w/out ripping on the CTM's or aftermarket shafts, etc, you're still trying to make the 44 something it's not (esp to handle 42s, and even for 38s on such a heavy vehicle). In the long run you'll be better off w/the D60 front. Otherwise it's like trying to build a 302 to match the torque and hp (and longevity) of a mildly warmed over 460 - it can be done but the finished product is still not as good. My .02. But I feel your pain, D60 fronts are expensive, try Harris in the Springs, that's where I got mine for $1k which was cheap at the time (ouch!). If you were building an early bronco or Scout or anything smaller my opinion might vary, but the curb weight on '78/9 Broncos is up there (upper 5ks/low 6k I'd guess as my '90 is low to mid 5ks and the 78/9s ARE considerably heavier).

mad1577 · 04-03-2002, 02:29 AM

I say go for the 60. I am currently running a 44 with 38 inch sx's, with Warn chromoly shafts. I've gone through both u-joints in a year, as well as all the ball joints, and a ring and pinion. You also have to consider the load on your ball joints, wheel bearings, housing, and tubes. These components on the 60 will hold up alot longer than the 44

Cherokee Paul · 04-03-2002, 05:59 AM

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
Now to find a 60..

DaleL · 04-03-2002, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by big78bronco
with Superior or Warn shafts..

Superior

Got a link?

ARokCrwlr · 04-03-2002, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
Did you happen to read Lance's Tech Article on CTM's?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/productreviews/ctm/index.html

All you questions are answered here!

Yes I have read Lances's article. I should have been more specific in my post. I want to know if anyone is running this combo in an EB. I'm pretty sure my rig is quite a bit heavier than Lance's, so the article still leaves questions unanswered. I also believe that a d60 is the best route, but if I can make my d44 survive I'll save about $1700 if you take into account new gears, locker, shafts, etc... I'm thinking that a $300 investment may be worth a try.

Cherokee Paul · 04-03-2002, 07:39 AM

Superior Axle

From what I've heard, they are stronger then the Warn, but don't offer a lifetime warranty, only 2-year? But, if you order from Drivetrain warehouse, they have a no-questions asked lifetime warranty on them.

bsoder · 04-03-2002, 09:07 AM

Quote:

I'm thinking that a $300 investment may be worth a try.

Plus, if you do end up destroying things, you can always sell whatever's left...

How much clearance do you lose with a D60 vs a D44?

Same question for a 9" vs a 10.25", actually...

TB76Bronco · 04-03-2002, 09:36 AM

It seems to me that the Dana 60 is not really that much more expensive. You still have to buy shafts, locker, gears and CTMs for a dana 44. If you already have all these you could sell your 44 and recoup some of the cost to build the 60.

Heck I just sold my stock 44 with disks for $650 and bought a king pin RC60 housing and steering knuckles for $600.

I'd vote for the 60

welndmn · 04-03-2002, 10:37 AM

I would run em in a EB (hell i am saving up for them now) but in a Fullsize, you need a 60, no if's and's or but's about it

with my set up, i am keeping the 1310 joints on my d shaft, this will now become the weak link, d-shafts joints are fast to replace and cheap

ARokCrwlr · 04-03-2002, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TB76Bronco
It seems to me that the Dana 60 is not really that much more expensive. You still have to buy shafts, locker, gears and CTMs for a dana 44. If you already have all these you could sell your 44 and recoup some of the cost to build the 60.

Heck I just sold my stock 44 with disks for $650 and bought a king pin RC60 housing and steering knuckles for $600.

I'd vote for the 60

My d44 is already built with ALL the goodies that are available short of the CTMs. You still have to spring for everything else for your d60 - lockers, gears, steering, shafts, brakes, etc...so you're still looking at at least $1200 more. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather have a d60. It's all an issue of $$$.

So, back to the question that hasn't been answered yet. Are there ANY EB's or similar sized rigs here running this setup? How has it held up?

Flatty · 04-03-2002, 11:00 AM

No question about the fullsize. Yoou NEED the 60 up front, but with an EB, you can ottally get away with a 44. My bro just got the CTM's for his CJ7, and is goign to the hammers this weekend. I know how he drives, so if he doesn't break them, I know no one else will. He has a D44 on a CJ7 with 38's, and some MASSISVE room for flex. He has a 460 BB, C6, 205, 44 front, 60 rear, 1/4 ellip rear, Radius arms in the rear, SOA on 4" springs up front, Lockright, 4.88's, CTM's, Warns, 38's on Champions. This thing works, and he is not scared to use all 4 barrels of the 460 on there. He fully gets it, and if anyone breaks the CTM's, he WILL this weekend at the HAmmers.

Dimtiri

D60 · 04-03-2002, 11:03 AM

Sorry dude. I'd guesstimate the curb weight of your rig and hp. Maybe figure crawl ratio, describe your driving style and type of terrain.... and then post to the General forum.

ARokCrwlr · 04-03-2002, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatty
No question about the fullsize. Yoou NEED the 60 up front, but with an EB, you can ottally get away with a 44. My bro just got the CTM's for his CJ7, and is goign to the hammers this weekend. I know how he drives, so if he doesn't break them, I know no one else will. He has a D44 on a CJ7 with 38's, and some MASSISVE room for flex. He has a 460 BB, C6, 205, 44 front, 60 rear, 1/4 ellip rear, Radius arms in the rear, SOA on 4" springs up front, Lockright, 4.88's, CTM's, Warns, 38's on Champions. This thing works, and he is not scared to use all 4 barrels of the 460 on there. He fully gets it, and if anyone breaks the CTM's, he WILL this weekend at the HAmmers.

Dimtiri

Thanks. Please post the results of his test

yjtj · 04-03-2002, 11:43 AM

goes the d44

Flatty · 04-03-2002, 12:17 PM

Well The auto allows for slippage, so I do not see the massive problem. We ran teh con and the hammers before with the stock crap, and no broken u-joints, but he was taking ti easy. He says he is gonna hammer the crap out of them, so we shall see.

Dimtiri

04-02-2002, 05:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
ARokCrwlr Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Member # 3523 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 124	CTM's and 38's Anyone here running CTM's with 38" tires? What kind of wheeling have they survived? I am wanting to bump up from 36's and I am trying to find out if the d44 will survive. It would definitely be the cheaper route vs a d60. Let's hear the war stories.

04-02-2002, 07:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rubicrawler Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2037 Location: Brentwood, CA 150 mi. from the 'Con Posts: 5,834	Did you happen to read Lance's Tech Article on CTM's? http://www.pirate4x4.com/productreviews/ctm/index.html All you questions are answered here! __________________ Mark Langford KI6TMK '86 CJ7, ProRock60's, 4.88's/Detroits/35 Spline Alloys/CTM's, TBI 350, 700R4, 4:1 D300 w/Twin Stick, 17" x 8.5" Trail Ready HD Aluminum beadlocks, 37x13.5x17 Toyo MT's Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers (TDO)

04-02-2002, 08:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
D60 Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2001 Member # 6398 Location: CO Posts: 3,351	Dude, w/out ripping on the CTM's or aftermarket shafts, etc, you're still trying to make the 44 something it's not (esp to handle 42s, and even for 38s on such a heavy vehicle). In the long run you'll be better off w/the D60 front. Otherwise it's like trying to build a 302 to match the torque and hp (and longevity) of a mildly warmed over 460 - it can be done but the finished product is still not as good. My .02. But I feel your pain, D60 fronts are expensive, try Harris in the Springs, that's where I got mine for $1k which was cheap at the time (ouch!). If you were building an early bronco or Scout or anything smaller my opinion might vary, but the curb weight on '78/9 Broncos is up there (upper 5ks/low 6k I'd guess as my '90 is low to mid 5ks and the 78/9s ARE considerably heavier). __________________ "Take 300 people and on average 290 of them just generally suck at life"

04-03-2002, 10:37 AM	#14 (permalink)
welndmn Well Done Man! Join Date: Mar 2000 Member # 398 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 17,434 Blog Entries: 3	I would run em in a EB (hell i am saving up for them now) but in a Fullsize, you need a 60, no if's and's or but's about it with my set up, i am keeping the 1310 joints on my d shaft, this will now become the weak link, d-shafts joints are fast to replace and cheap __________________ Mark 71 Bronco. 42's and bolt on goats. 47' CJ2a, 302, C4, 33's. 2012, year of the flat fender.

04-03-2002, 11:00 AM	#16 (permalink)
Flatty Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 29 Location: Belmont, CA Posts: 6,389	No question about the fullsize. Yoou NEED the 60 up front, but with an EB, you can ottally get away with a 44. My bro just got the CTM's for his CJ7, and is goign to the hammers this weekend. I know how he drives, so if he doesn't break them, I know no one else will. He has a D44 on a CJ7 with 38's, and some MASSISVE room for flex. He has a 460 BB, C6, 205, 44 front, 60 rear, 1/4 ellip rear, Radius arms in the rear, SOA on 4" springs up front, Lockright, 4.88's, CTM's, Warns, 38's on Champions. This thing works, and he is not scared to use all 4 barrels of the 460 on there. He fully gets it, and if anyone breaks the CTM's, he WILL this weekend at the HAmmers. Dimtiri __________________ 1974 FJ40 in the works 2006 F250 crew cab longbed powerstroke for towing duties

04-02-2002, 06:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cherokee Paul Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5044 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 189	Was thinking of going this route myself, along with Superior or Warn shafts.. Definately cheaper then buying a 60 and rebuilding it, but then I started thinking.. Where's the next breaking point going to be? What I'm afraid of is moving it into the differential.. would hate to start breaking R&P's or carriers instead of u-joints..

04-02-2002, 07:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kurtastrophe Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Member # 10046 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 449	My vote goes to the Dana 44 knuckles breaking next.

04-02-2002, 08:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Cherokee Paul Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5044 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 189	Ok, here's the real question then, and yes I've read the review. on a full sized '79 Bronco, I want to run large tires.. 38, or possibly even 42's.. Should I just bite the bullet, and go with a 60, costing me nearly 2 grand by the time I re-gear, lock, 35 outers, etc.. Or for half the cost, go with a 44 built with moly axles, and CTM joints? The smart side of me says only a 60 will withstand that kind of abuse... The miser in me says that I could probably get a 44 to work.. The wild side of me says I should just buy 2 1/2 ton axles to put in there..

04-03-2002, 02:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
mad1577 Wheeler Join Date: Feb 2002 Member # 10244 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 115	I say go for the 60. I am currently running a 44 with 38 inch sx's, with Warn chromoly shafts. I've gone through both u-joints in a year, as well as all the ball joints, and a ring and pinion. You also have to consider the load on your ball joints, wheel bearings, housing, and tubes. These components on the 60 will hold up alot longer than the 44

04-03-2002, 05:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cherokee Paul Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5044 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 189	Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Now to find a 60..

04-03-2002, 07:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cherokee Paul Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5044 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 189	Superior Axle From what I've heard, they are stronger then the Warn, but don't offer a lifetime warranty, only 2-year? But, if you order from Drivetrain warehouse, they have a no-questions asked lifetime warranty on them.

04-03-2002, 09:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
TB76Bronco Wheeler Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7452 Location: Florissant, CO Posts: 237	It seems to me that the Dana 60 is not really that much more expensive. You still have to buy shafts, locker, gears and CTMs for a dana 44. If you already have all these you could sell your 44 and recoup some of the cost to build the 60. Heck I just sold my stock 44 with disks for $650 and bought a king pin RC60 housing and steering knuckles for $600. I'd vote for the 60

04-03-2002, 11:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
D60 Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2001 Member # 6398 Location: CO Posts: 3,351	Sorry dude. I'd guesstimate the curb weight of your rig and hp. Maybe figure crawl ratio, describe your driving style and type of terrain.... and then post to the General forum. __________________ "Take 300 people and on average 290 of them just generally suck at life"

04-03-2002, 11:43 AM	#19 (permalink)
yjtj Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3373 Location: hell (thats N.Y.) for a wheeler Posts: 1,261	goes the d44 __________________ the world might be passing you by, but its just going in circles 91 yj 5.7tbi/th350/d300/d60/14bolt/5.13s/detriots/xd9000i/soa on bds 3.5 yjs front/soa 4 inch waggys back/39.5 boggers on mrt beadlocks

04-03-2002, 12:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
Flatty Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 29 Location: Belmont, CA Posts: 6,389	Well The auto allows for slippage, so I do not see the massive problem. We ran teh con and the hammers before with the stock crap, and no broken u-joints, but he was taking ti easy. He says he is gonna hammer the crap out of them, so we shall see. Dimtiri __________________ 1974 FJ40 in the works 2006 F250 crew cab longbed powerstroke for towing duties

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