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Old 04-02-2006, 09:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How to Efi 460?

I have got a gt 390 in my 74' f100 and am looking into converting it into a fuel inj. 460. What exactly do I need? All the sensors wiring harness and a computer? I was reading up on this fuel injectuion stuff and its pretty confusing. Say I wanted to p[ump up the motor a bit, would the computer be able to "handle" that power or would the gains be inadequate? Do you reprogram the computers or what?
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You have several options. First would be drop in a complete EFI 460 out of an '88-97 F-250/350. Go for post '93 if you can, they have better flowing heads and the heads have more potential. If you do that you'd want the motor, ALL the engine related wiring and the ECM. If you know what your doing these motors have a fairly tuneable computer, although you do have to 'hack' into it using Tweecer or a similar computer system to tune it. Once you have the ability to reprogram the computer, you can basically do anything you want as far as mods go, so long as you avoid cams with a lot of overlap.

The next option, would be to get a non-fuel injected 460 and get an aftermarket injection system to run it. This might be a little more user freindly as far as tuneing goes, but I've never messed with aftermarket EFI, so I don't really know. The last option would to be get a non-injected 460, and piece together your own injection system. If you get thrifty, I've even seen guys using chevrolet TBI systems atop 460's, since you can find those systems for a dime a dozen in JY's, and the are more easily tuneable. Thats probably the route that I'm going to go for EFI on my GT-40 windsor motor, mostly because I have a TBI setup laying around.
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Old 04-03-2006, 10:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks dude that helped a lot. I still cannot figure out what I want tho a windsor or a 460. Sounds kinda funky but i still dont know!
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordman500
thanks dude that helped a lot. I still cannot figure out what I want tho a windsor or a 460. Sounds kinda funky but i still dont know!
Go with the 460, way more low end, and that is what you need for rock crawling, plus there is lots of power to be had from a 460, it costs alot more to get power from a windsor, good luck either way. If you plan on swapping in a stock EFI 460, pm me and we can swap numbers, I have done this swap before on my 75 F150/F350 hybrid with great luck.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
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How do you plan to wheel the truck? If its mostly for crawling, I would go with a built windsor. Punch it out to 427ci, aluminum heads and intake and you have a good torquey motor that is much lighter than a big-block. If its just a general all around wheeling truck or for mud/snow/dune type wheeling then I'd go with a big-block. Cheaper to get the same power numbers if weight is not a concern.

The windsor is the route that I'm personally going with my '79 F-150. I have a 351w that I'm building up using GT-40 heads. For now I'm probably going to run it with the stock displacement, but plans are to eventually stroke it to 427ci. Fuel injection will be via Chevy TBI, as I stated before. As much as I love the big-block in my F-250, I just can't see it working out to well in a truck built for crawling, too much front end weight.

Edit: As far as torque needed for crawling, its sort of a moot point with the crawl ratios that most people are running today. A 400lb-ft small block (which if your thrifty can be built fairly ecconomically), will have more than enough torque for 95% of crawling situations. True the torque will have to come on a little higher in the rpm range to get those numbers, but with gearing it really doesn't matter IMO. Now if your talking Tellico style wheeling, having more power on tap is nice; big tires and big motors are always fun there.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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engine mods

If you want to use a stock engine, use all the stock system that comes with the engine. Ford sells a stand alone wiring harness for the 302/351. Available from Summit for around $250. I am currently doing a 460 stroker motor (545) and will use the stock Ford everything but changing injectors adding a mass airflow meter and using a Mustang 302 computer. Look on the computer search: mass airflow conversion. Lots of info and instructions.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Whats wrong with the 390? I've had a few and thought they were great. They don't give up much to a 460 in my opinion...
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Old 04-05-2006, 11:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Im putting a 95 F350 460 EFI motor in my 67' F350 and debated also but ended up getting a donor truck for all the stuff... the heads are different also so now my problem is they dont make frame exit headers for the older trucks that fit the EFI heads so custom headers... thought about using an 85' F350 motor, sitting in the garage also and use the FAST system then you need the crank trigger, special distributor mods etc..etc.. alot more cost.. Then I really didnt want the carb injection wanted the throttle body so went with the 95' stocker. I will be driving in the snow and ice so dont want some insane motor although it is tempting so now Ill be at close to 400hp or so? I also looked into the mustang throttle body on it with mustang ECM using the tweecer to set which looked do able? See the below link, alot of Tech there.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220/


Todd

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Old 04-05-2006, 11:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakt
Im putting a 95 F350 460 EFI motor in my 67' F350 and debated also but ended up getting a donor truck for all the stuff... the heads are different also so now my problem is they dont make frame exit headers for the older trucks that fit the EFI heads so custom headers... thought about using an 85' F350 motor, sitting in the garage also and use the FAST system then you need the crank trigger, special distributor mods etc..etc.. alot more cost.. Then I really didnt want the carb injection wanted the throttle body so went with the 95' stocker. I will be driving in the snow and ice so dont want some insane motor although it is tempting so now Ill be at close to 400hp or so? I also looked into the mustang throttle body on it with mustang ECM using the tweecer to set which looked do able?

Todd
Hey Todd, Im in the same boat. Im putting a 97 Mass air 460 in my 73 crewcab and Im going to run fenderwell headers. Their are three options that I am aware of, the first is buy a set of L&Ls and weld up the flanges so they will seal. The second is get a set of L&Ls cut the flanges off and weld on flanges for the newer heads. The third is call the guy that makes maddog headers and see if he will change the flanges. I talked to him once and he seemed receptive to the idea but that was when he first got started I dont know if he would do it now.
I found a set of good used L&Ls for a hundred bucks and bought some 1/2 flanges for the newer heads when I get the time I will cut the old and weld on the new. The tube spacing and bolt pattern is the same between the old and new heads the ports are raised 5/8in and are more D shaped on the newer heads .
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I was thinking of going to REF unlimited in Kingman,AZ for a custom set of custom headers made. Are you running the E40D with BW1356?

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Old 04-05-2006, 02:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakt
I was thinking of going to REF unlimited in Kingman,AZ for a custom set of custom headers made. Are you running the E40D with BW1356?

Todd
What or who is REF and what would they charge you for a set.
I have an E40d but havent decided on which t-case. I have a 1356 and a 4407 But both of which will give fitment problems with thease narrow frame trucks. They have too much offset for the front drive shaft and the side of the t-case will hit the frame on the drivers side. I was going to use a 205 but they dont have enough off set and the front drive shaft yoke will hit the corner of the transmission case at the pan flange. I thought about doing a 203-205 doubler but I really dont need it as this truck is going to be used for towing.
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Its like 1200.00 or so for a custom set of headers but my truck is a money pit so no matter to me just when it gets done...I had the same problem with the T-case but bought the clock ring from below and solves the BW1356 fitment problem between the rails.. although I have a 12" lift on mine anyway though.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7804


http://www.attitudeperformance.com/reindex%20kit.htm


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Old 04-05-2006, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=zakt]Its like 1200.00 or so for a custom set of headers but my truck is a money pit so no matter to me just when it gets done...I had the same problem with the T-case but bought the clock ring from below and solves the BW1356 fitment problem between the rails.. although I have a 12" lift on mine anyway though.

1200.00 Thats more than my budget will allow. How bad did your t-case hit? Im only going a 4in lift and dont want to clock it very far if I dont haft to. I havent mocked it up yet but when I ues the tape it looks like I have about 2in too much t-case.
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Old 04-05-2006, 07:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Cut the frame a little where the T case hits.A buddy of mine did that and it works like a champ,and no frame weakness problems either.
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Old 04-05-2006, 08:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have been accumilating the parts to swap in an 89 EFI 460 in my wifes 78 Bronco. Glad you guys are working the bugs out and finding some answers to many of my questions. Currently it has the C-6/ 205 drivetrain but after I finish the EFI swap and have it running good I want to swap in an E4OD and the 1356. Didn't think it was going to be a problem fitting between the frame rails but hadn't made any measurements yet. Her Bronco is more of a daily driver with 6" lift and 38" swampers.
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Old 04-05-2006, 11:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncoformudv
I have been accumilating the parts to swap in an 89 EFI 460 in my wifes 78 Bronco.

I EFI'd my 400 and I love it even more now than when it had a carb. I would definatly do it all over again. If your putting in a EFI 460 the only way to do it is with mass air. speed denisity is good, but mass air is far better.
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I havent measured any thing exactly yet but know the BW1356 wont fit by looking so not sure by how much? As above though I have 12" lift and clocking the transfer case 20 degrees drops it 6 inches, so that will work in my case. I most likely will be converting my 95' motor to Mass Air, when I put the vortec supercharger on they say I cant run higher boost with out converting IST makes a conversion kit which I want to use then you have to use a stand alone transmission control which I plan to use the PCS controller. The E40D shifts could be better in my opinion so midas well fix that while Im at it.

http://www.mass-air.com/Products.htm

http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...content-4.html

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Old 04-06-2006, 12:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakt
I most likely will be converting my 95' motor to Mass Air, when I put the vortec supercharger on they say I cant run higher boost with out converting IST makes a conversion kit which I want to use then you have to use a stand alone transmission control which I plan to use the PCS controller. The E40D shifts could be better in my opinion so midas well fix that while Im at it.

http://www.mass-air.com/Products.htm

http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...content-4.html
Todd you do know Ford made a MASS air 460 with an E4OD? You could run factory Ford with a SCTuner and set it up the a blower and shift points how you want.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncoformudv
I have been accumilating the parts to swap in an 89 EFI 460 in my wifes 78 Bronco. Glad you guys are working the bugs out and finding some answers to many of my questions. Currently it has the C-6/ 205 drivetrain but after I finish the EFI swap and have it running good I want to swap in an E4OD and the 1356. Didn't think it was going to be a problem fitting between the frame rails but hadn't made any measurements yet. Her Bronco is more of a daily driver with 6" lift and 38" swampers.
I wouldent run an 89 the 93 and up 460 heads are alot better. Im putting a 97 460 with factory MASS air and an E4OD that way you dont have to mess with getting a diffrent ECM. Picking up parts and mixing and matching is OK but its alot simpler just to find one wrecked truck and put the engine trans and ECM in as a unit get it running and make changes from their.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Cut the frame a little where the T case hits.A buddy of mine did that and it works like a champ,and no frame weakness problems either.
Which t-case did your budy use? Got any pics?
Thanks Leadmic
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I dont have pics sorry.But he used a NP 208 wich is similar in sise.You know hoy the frame is shaped like this. [ the bottom of the frame that runs like this - he cut a little out for the clearence and it worked out fine.If you cut more than you need you can allways weld a plate to the side of frame for more support.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Isnt the NP208 a fulltime 4x4 case?

Leadmic, is the SCTuner like the Tweecer? I also have the 95' truck or would have gotten the 97' with mass air

http://www.tweecer.com/products.htm

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Old 04-06-2006, 02:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakt
Isnt the NP208 a fulltime 4x4 case?

Leadmic, is the SCTuner like the Tweecer? I also have the 95' truck or would have gotten the 97' with mass air

http://www.tweecer.com/products.htm
The SCT is loaded with three diffrent tunes that are done by the shop that you get it from. You tell them what you want and they set it up for you. The program they use has some base values and they build what you want from their. If you find a shop with a dyno they can get the tune spot on from the gate. The SCT also allows for datalogging and a broad band O2. Their two packages one lets you make small changes to fuel curvs and timming and shift points the other lets you change what ever you want . You can also change tire sizes and check codes and clear them. The tweecar is simmiler except you dont start with a base tune except the factory one you do it all yourself. Its alot more in depth. I here good things about both.
Also the 208 was the first aluminum case chain drive Ford used. Siminular to the 1356 just not as strong and had more problems.
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Old 04-06-2006, 03:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A quick note on the Ford Mass air EFI 460, from all my sources and from what I have seen, these setups were only availible in '97, in CA. The are very hard to find, and those who know what it is want a nice coin for them.
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The 208 is NOT a full time case and is compareable in sise to a BW 1356
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