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Old 12-21-2007, 02:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Looking for inexpensive power and mileage from 1986 460.

Merry Christmas!

I know this quest seems futile, however, I thought I would ask anyway.

I would like to get something better than 8 mpg from this pig. Oregon born 1986 F250 460 4x4, C6, 3.53 gears. This truck does not have nor require a cat. **All tuneup parts are new and functional except for carb (I will be rebuilding that soon).** Now I know I can swap out gears and get a Gear Vender overdrive unit but those are are expensive options.

I know I can get hearders but in Kalifornia the smog nazis are particular about modifying that crap. I have not found a set of OE legal headers for this thing (Holley 4bbl too). I could swap out the single exhaust for a nice custom one. I was thinking of getting a set of plain unpainted headers, install bungs on them for the factry air injection (AI).

Also, I found JC Whitney has custom fab AI tubes so you can make your own. Anyone ever used these?

Any suggestion??

TIA
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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1. Pull heads, do a 'mild' port and polish, basically just clean up the heads, give it a good three-angle valve job. You will be surprised at how much efficiency can be gained with just a little cleanup work to the heads, and really the only cost is your time (and the valve job if you decided to go that far).

2. Install a set of roller rockers

3. Edelbrock performer intake (get one with the EGR valve, when working properly it will help boost mileage, and performance losses are quite negligible)

4. Tune up/re-build the carb, get someone that really knows carbs if you are in doubt.

5. Install an aftermarket HEI distributor

6. Headers (even shorty headers would be ok), they do make smog legal headers for that truck, you just have to find them. Look diligently on the Summit website, and also take a look at bronco graveyard.

7. Run a nice smooth 3" single exhaust with a flowmaster 40 series or equivalent.

8. K&N air filter

I'm not sure how much gain in mileage all this would give you, maybe 2-3mpg at best, but I'm fairly sure you would be pleased with the increase in performance.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have been told that running synthetic fluids in engine, tranny, case, and axles will show increased mileage, but that is just what I have heard, and I have no proof!
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I had a 460 1ton 4x4 crewcab with 373 gear getting about 14-16mph on propain !!!

I bought the truck that way from a farmer around here.He said he got most of the stuff off of a forklift???

Just thought I throw that out there..wish I still had that rust bucket...
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poohbair View Post
I have been told that running synthetic fluids in engine, tranny, case, and axles will show increased mileage, but that is just what I have heard, and I have no proof!
It will help. I was running all synthetic fluid in my '79 ford, and was getting 14mpg. I switched back to regular oil and now I'm getting 12mpg. The synthetic was nice for the better mileage, but all the cranky old components of my drivetrain hated how thin it was. I was getting a lot of gear noise and it leaked a bit faster than the 85w140 that I'm currently running front to rear. Also, syn. was expensive, and hard to find in BFE, which is not good for a trail rig in my case.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the info. Yes I can rebuild the carb, no prob. Have to be more patient on the header looking. Yes 3" single would be great. I can have a client of mine do the head work. I was thinking the same about the Performer mani.

Wondering about the aftermarket HEI though. Other than a more agressive curve, will that really get me any better mileage? I know I should gain a smidge of performance.

VerticleTRX-- I would be happy with 2-3 MPG increase. That is a huge 25-30% increase in mileage. K&N is a no brainer and I have that already.

Poohbair-- I have also heard of the Synth helping. However that means a complete gasketing of all areas to hold the new liquid. Don't know if I am into that right now. Daily Driver here

Mudbilly-- I used to have a propane setup years ago and sold it. Now would be a great time for that. Not only is LPG cheaper in NorCal but I could run much hotter spark and more adv due to the higher Octane rating of LPG.

Decisions decisions...
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I really don't know how much mileage gain an HEI will give you, but I can say that its 100times simpler than Ford Dura-spark and seems to work great on my '79, I'm using a Proform HEI.

The secret to any engine is in the heads. Spend most of your time here and it will pay off. Roller rockers/head work will be the biggest bang for the buck. I can give you some specifics on what to do with these heads if you want.

Edit: Heres a set of headers: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I really don't know how much mileage gain an HEI will give you, but I can say that its 100times simpler than Ford Dura-spark and seems to work great on my '79, I'm using a Proform HEI.

The secret to any engine is in the heads. Spend most of your time here and it will pay off. Roller rockers/head work will be the biggest bang for the buck. I can give you some specifics on what to do with these heads if you want.

Edit: Heres a set of headers: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Not a problem finding headers. Just a problem finding them with air injection. I will have to get a raw metal set and afix the AI bungs for mine or the JCW ones and fab a connective solution.

As I stated I will have to give the heads to a client of mine (been doing head machining 20+ yrs) and trade out some work. I have done a set but I don't have the time to devote to it this time around.

Thanks for the heads up. Excuse the pun.
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Old 12-22-2007, 01:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok , here is the REALITY of building up a 460 for gas mileage... You DO NOT need a new intake manifold, headers etc... Before you start ranting and raving I will explain...

1. It is so easy to get caught up in aftermarket BS hype!!

First thing, install timing set straight up. Then get a freeflowing muffler such as Hooker's Aeromax or Magnaflow. FLOWMASTERS ARE NOT freeflowing! Better than stock but spend some time on 460ford.com and search the dyno results of NUMEROUS runs...

Up the air pressure in your tires!

Install and O2 sensor with a readout gauge and learn to fine tune your carb. learn how to tune for cruising and for pulling. leaning the carb out at cruising where throttle is almost closed and engine load is low, manifold vacuum high will give more gains in MPG than about anything!!!

Going from a 750 to a 600 CFM carb can be worth 2-3 mpg and even pick up torque!


Now let's debunks some myths, or some ideas...

Lowering engine speed at cruise will help MPG, but you said inexpensive!!

Headers? New intake manifold?? = More MPG??
All that will do is lighten your wallet! Here is why.
More air through the system = more fuel burnt! Yes power will go up! but now you have an engine that runs 2500 rpm that can now ingest more air and fuel at 2500 rpm! More power is being made. So now can you just let off the throttle a little since you have a more powerfull engine?? Not hardly. Their is plenty of torque in a 460 at cruise to keep you from having to give it more throttle due to lack of power...

You still have to do 2500 rpm to maintain the same speed.

Some will argue that installing a new intake, headers etc will make the motor run more effecient. This will then equate to better MPG... Yes it may become more effecient , but that equates to more HP. SINCE FUEL IS BURNT IN A RATIO TO AIR... the only way to increase MPG is to do 2 things. Eliminate friction (roller rockers,rollerize the C6, more air in tires to reduce rolling friction etc etc) OR reduce the amount of air/fuel you use and try to keep a balance that gives you enough HP to do the work you need...

Make sense?

I just spent a whole year and a bunch of $$ to see just how much I could gain in fuel economy with a 460.

I started out with a 429 with a factory 2 barrel. 13.5 MPG's. Installed Headman elite headers, duals and H pipe, flowmasters. Slight power increase but lost down to 11.5 MPG.

So I got the bright idea to swap to a 460 with a 750 Holley. 7.5 MPG

So, out came the checkbook... A new cam (chosen for it's better effeciency),
And Edelbrock performer, roller timing set straight up, FRPP Roller Rockers, KB dished Hyper pistons, A LOT of port work on the heads, Headers, Hpipe, new mufflers. A LOT MORE power but no real increaese in MPG

Went to the dyno and tuned a 600 holley and actually picked up power and 2 MPG's!! Now I am at 10 MPG.

Hmmm, must need more money thrown at it... Low gear set and full rollerized C6 to reduce parasitic drag. MPG...Don't know yet. Just got in in and I can't keep from mashing the skinny pedal


So, try the tire airpressure, timing, and tune the carb to maximize the AFR at cruise. Those are cheap things to do first. Then if still not satisfyed and you want to go headers, intake, cam etc, PM me and I will be willing to make a wager on how much you increase your MPG.

Oh yea, if you do, you WILL pick up power and that only makes you want to embarass unsupecting victims in the next lane

For porting 460 heads, go here http://reincarnation-automotive.com/
Join his technical index pages and it will be the best 25 bucks you have ever spent on your 460. Step by step instructions with lots of pics and flow bench numbers to back it up.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the great info guys. Looks as though I have a lot of research to do before I open my wallet.

broncman--- I sent you a PM to clean up your sig web link.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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broncman- notice his title did say power AND mileage mods?

My suggestion still stands on an overall package. I strongly believe that you will not decrease your mileage any, and if tuned right will pick up some mpg, how much I do not know.

What I do know, is that doing any modifications to a motor strictly to increase mpg do not pay off unless they are cheap or free. The cost of modifications (hundreds of $$$) will also buy a lot of gas. The only exception being if you drive hundreds of miles a week, although that doesn't seem to be the case here. Now, if power is your main goal, and mpg is only an added benefit, then go ahead and build it, you should be pleased with the results.

Also, the headers in the link I showed you do have air injection bungs. It may not show them in the pic, but it says they do on the application page. Also, I ordered a set or Thorley Tri-y headers for my '88 460 (the EFI headers) and they have the air injection bungs on them, everything to bolt right up in place of the OEM manifolds, I'm sure the carb ones would be the same.
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Old 12-22-2007, 10:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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broncman- notice his title did say power AND mileage mods?

My suggestion still stands on an overall package. I strongly believe that you will not decrease your mileage any, and if tuned right will pick up some mpg, how much I do not know.

What I do know, is that doing any modifications to a motor strictly to increase mpg do not pay off unless they are cheap or free. The cost of modifications (hundreds of $$$) will also buy a lot of gas. The only exception being if you drive hundreds of miles a week, although that doesn't seem to be the case here. Now, if power is your main goal, and mpg is only an added benefit, then go ahead and build it, you should be pleased with the results.

Also, the headers in the link I showed you do have air injection bungs. It may not show them in the pic, but it says they do on the application page. Also, I ordered a set or Thorley Tri-y headers for my '88 460 (the EFI headers) and they have the air injection bungs on them, everything to bolt right up in place of the OEM manifolds, I'm sure the carb ones would be the same.

I do drive about 75-100 miles per day depending. Not willing to sacrafice power for mileage. I remember the 6cyl trucks... bad bad bad

Cool Thanks Mon!
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Reread my post. I discussed both POWER and MILEAGE...
The straight up timing, tuning carb individual circuits are practically free. These will not loose any power and again are basically free.

The other stuff, headers, intake etc, of course increase power but in reality do very little to nothing for MPG. That is the standing bet...

I built my rig for towing and the trips are 8-12 hours one way. I have kept datalogs of nearly all changes and their corresponding increase or decrease in mileage.

Therefore, I know almost exactly what all the changes did in my 460.

Out of everything, on the same motor, (ported heads, intake, timing, roller rockers, headers, duals, h pipe etc) swapping from a 750 to a 600 cfm carb made the most mileage difference AND power (according to chassis dyno) difference.

10 MPG is doable in a pretty well modded motor but it does take quite a bit of fine tuning on the carb.

I will never increase MPG enough to pay for the mods, but power was probably the most important thing I wanted. That and to tow on 87 octane gas.

14.6 seconds in the quarter mile in a 5,000 lb truck on 87 octane at 10 MPG.

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