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Old 03-15-2008, 07:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What is a "Highboy"

Well, I've taken over someone else thread... so since there is a lot of good info, i though it should have it's own thread.

What is a Ford "Highboy"?
Lets keep this to the F-series trucks. (No need to talk how Ford used it back in the 30's for a cat)

I'll start. Ford never used the term "highboy" for it's trucks. It's a term of endearment, however people are always talking about a certain type of truck.

Picture: The Last year of the Highboy
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'll keep this brief, but I'll go first. Hi-boy and lo-boy were terms found in parts catalogs for Ford F-250's of the model year 1977, because in 1977.5(January of 1977) they changed the entire drivetrain design to a much lower running stance by using the frame width/married t-case/high-pinion front axle and 3" rear lift block already in use on the 73 and later F-150 4 x 4's. If someone were to have some vintage 78 to 80ish JC Whitney catalogs, or better yet some vintage auto parts store catalogs, it may help prove this. I'm not sure if Ford itself used the terms internally or not, but they had to have assisted in some manner informing the aftermarket public with their data, and may have actually been the ones to formally coin the phrases "hi-boy" and "lo-boy". If some one actually has the 77 Ford truck repair manuals it would be very interesting to see how they differentiated in there as well.

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Old 03-15-2008, 08:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.N
So, page 47 shows:
F250 3/4 ton pick-up
and a
F250 3/4 ton Heavy Duty pick-up

Now why would Spicer list them different? They sure group alot of others together... I think I'm on to something.
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Highboy's had a different Frame, thus the truck sit higher than a standard F-series.

Highboy frame


Regular frame
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Those that like the Google may find this...

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...78&postcount=8

Quote:
The basic definition seems to be:
=========================
A Hiboy is a Ford truck that came from the factory as having the following:
- Built from 1967 thru 1977.5.
- F-250.
- 4x4.
- Divorced transfer case.

Trucks that are NOT considered a Hiboy are:
- Any truck built after mid-1977. It goes by Consecutive Build Number in the VIN# anything built starting Y80001 is a 77 1/2. **
- Anything other than an F-250.

There will always be a couple very oddball exceptions but, for the most part, this is it.

Front axle choices in the Hiboy were either the 8 lug Dana 44 or the old style low-slung pinion Dana 60 (commonly referred to as the Dana 50). Engine choices were either the 6 cylinder or 360 2 bbl. Steering was either manual or power ram assist.
The Dana 44 had two different versions in the F250, and the Dana 60 ONLY came in the Crewcabs. Also the referred to Dana 50... The Dana 50 was not "invented" around this time. That is just false info...
It comes from the factory with a 3 inch steel lift block in the rear and an extra leaf up front. & 2 different general suspension types. While the frame part numbers are different, because of the new 1973 design, the trucks from 1967/72 have a similar width frame, similar springs, suspension, etc
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It never fails to amaze me how something so simple always creates such confusion. It boils down SO simply:

Any F-250 4x4 built from 1967 through 1977.5.

Qualifies as a "Highboy" (which is indeed slang).

3....2....1 untill some noob posts swearing that his 1979 F-150 is in fact a "factory hi-boy"
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proeliator View Post
It never fails to amaze me how something so simple always creates such confusion. It boils down SO simply:

Any F-250 4x4 built from 1967 through 1977.5.

Qualifies as a "Highboy" (which is indeed slang).

3....2....1 untill some noob posts swearing that his 1979 F-150 is in fact a "factory hi-boy"
I disagree with your Any F-250 4x4 built from 1967 through 1977.5.

I believe there is a 'Lowboy' during these same year. There are several GVW...
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The frames are indeed different, but so was the spring package, on a "lo-boy" 77.5 & later the rear springs are 3" wide, prior to 77.5 I believe they were 2.5
The front springs after 77.5 were 2 leaf units which even new were maybe flat, (look at one now & they have a reverse arch, prior to 77.5 they had more leafs & more arch, I think this is where most of the high comes from,
Other differences prior to 77.5 are (as posted earlier) narrower rear frame rails (requiring a different bed), gas tank behind the seat, strait front cross member, (vs angled in 77.5, 78 &79)
Anything after 77.5 would have had either a 300 strait six or a M engine (351M 400M) (4x4)
Thats all I can think of right now,
But as already stated I believe it is slang to define the two,
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.N View Post
I believe there is a 'Lowboy' during these same year. There are several GVW...
This would explain the difference in front differentianls, No?
In years prior to 77.5 (hi-boy) I have seen low pinion, closed knuckle, drum brakes, small hubs (internal splines)
Low pinion, closed knuckle, drum brakes, big hubs (bolt on)
& Low pinion, open knuckle, disk brakes, big hubs (bolt on)

All trucks were "hi-boys" (sat higher than 77.5 & later)

Never seen a low pinion closed knuckle 60, but could account for another GVW,

Are all of the GVW numbers listed for 4wd?
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipped_Link View Post
This would explain the difference in front differentianls, No?
That is my thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipped_Link
In years prior to 77.5 (hi-boy) I have seen low pinion, closed knuckle, drum brakes, small hubs (internal splines)
Low pinion, closed knuckle, drum brakes, big hubs (bolt on)
& Low pinion, open knuckle, disk brakes, big hubs (bolt on)
1975, Small kingpin on F250. That spring sure doesn't look like a highboy spring.

No more pics, I lost them back in 2001.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipped_Link
Never seen a low pinion closed knuckle 60, but could account for another GVW,

Now you have.. From my web page --> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Dana44_3.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipped_Link
Are all of the GVW numbers listed for 4wd?
1972 4x4
GVW model code
6,800 F-260
7,100 F-261
7,700 F-262
6,300 F-263
7,700 F-264

F263 = all styles: chassis + cab, flare, style, platform and stake
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.N View Post
That is my thought.

1975, Small kingpin on F250. That spring sure doesn't look like a highboy spring.

No more pics, I lost them back in 2001.

It does to me, (& I mean that respectfully) it is hard to tell in the pic, but that spring as at least 3 maybe 4 leafs, the front eye/bolt is higher than the top of the spring, the "lo-boy" (77.5 & later) would have 2 leafs & the reverse arch would allow the top of the spring to set even with the front bolt/eye, That pic looks to have about 3-4" more hight than a 77.5, 78, & 79 truck would have,

Just guessing,

Thanks for the pics of the low pinion 60,
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipped_Link View Post
It does to me, (& I mean that respectfully) it is hard to tell in the pic, but that spring as at least 3 maybe 4 leafs, the front eye/bolt is higher than the top of the spring, the "lo-boy" (77.5 & later) would have 2 leafs & the reverse arch would allow the top of the spring to set even with the front bolt/eye, That pic looks to have about 3-4" more hight than a 77.5, 78, & 79 truck would have,

Just guessing,

Thanks for the pics of the low pinion 60,
ya what he said

that is a 77.5 and older spring/hanger/axle

after 77.5-79 springs had 2 leafs and were flat.

dont even try to argue that there were f250 4x4's built before 77.5 that were "low boys"
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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ya what he said

that is a 77.5 and older spring/hanger/axle

after 77.5-79 springs had 2 leafs and were flat.

dont even try to argue that there were f250 4x4's built before 77.5 that were "low boys"
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:10 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM View Post
dont even try to argue that there were f250 4x4's built before 77.5 that were "low boys"
Don't even try? Why because you read it on the internet? Come-on give me some facts, not just a lazy reply.
(fyi, it's not the first time I've challenged the collective thinking. Funny thing, I've change the collective thinking before, not that I couldn't be wrong)


I'll give you 76-77 F250's are all highboys..
and 73 and older had a different frame... so that I'll not worry about.

I'm still trying to find out about 73-75, as there are a lot more GVW's in those years... Need to find Ford frame part numbers.

Edit:
So, the 2wd has a different frame than the "highboy" 4x4, no?
So how certain are you that Ford didn't use this frame in a 4x4? I mean this is Ford after all. Heck from what I've found the 4x4 crewcabs used a 2wd frame, and the 2wd crewcabs used a highboy frame.
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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MR N,just curious,on the site you have,you"ve got the axle shown in post 12 as a small kingpin non highboy,thats the axle that was stock in my 74 f 250, i just replaced that axle with one from a 76 f 250,mine was listed as 6600 gvw
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.N View Post
I disagree with your Any F-250 4x4 built from 1967 through 1977.5.

I believe there is a 'Lowboy' during these same year. There are several GVW...
And I disagree that there was a "lowboy" F-250 4x4 build during those same years

Granted, there were axle and tranfer case differences, but they all had that same height and frame similarity that identify them as a "highboy".
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Ok, most of the info I've seen on highboys says either 6 cylinder or FE motor, however one of my friends has a 77 highboy with a 351M, as far as we can tell it's factory, so did some of the late early 77s have a 351M? The truck is definitly a highboy, divorce t-case, low pinoin big hub 44, higher ride height, etc, I've just never heard of a non FE v8 in one.



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Old 03-16-2008, 11:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM View Post
ya what he said

that is a 77.5 and older spring/hanger/axle

after 77.5-79 springs had 2 leafs and were flat.

dont even try to argue that there were f250 4x4's built before 77.5 that were "low boys"
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Proeliator View Post
And I disagree that there was a "lowboy" F-250 4x4 build during those same years

Granted, there were axle and tranfer case differences, but they all had that same height and frame similarity that identify them as a "highboy".
Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewchief View Post
Ok, most of the info I've seen on highboys says either 6 cylinder or FE motor, however one of my friends has a 77 highboy with a 351M, as far as we can tell it's factory, so did some of the late early 77s have a 351M? The truck is definitly a highboy, divorce t-case, low pinoin big hub 44, higher ride height, etc, I've just never heard of a non FE v8 in one.



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Except for the 352 in 1967, the only V-8 engine available in the Ford F-250 4 x 4 was the 360. Not even the 390. I don't know why, and it is freaky, but I challange anyone to provide a valid vin that does not start with F26Y. In 1977, even before the mid-year low-boy, the engines changed to the 351M(code H) or the 400(code S), so any 77 with a 351M/400 is perfectly normal. I'm not certain about prior to 1977, but in 78/79, the 300-6(code B) was definitely available in the F-250 4 x 4.

It has nothing to do with equipment or spring rate(GVWR). All pre-77.5 frames were the same, and lo-boy was coined to describe the new low-slung version began in MY77.5. The "slang" terms as it was put, had a definite purpose for the MY 1977, but have stuck to all of the models in either direction since. That's what I remember. Now I will say, my memory is far from perfect, and you will see a lot of people with the HD version calling them a "true highboy", so I am anxiously awaiting some valid, printed proof as well. I am certain about the frames, but I'm not positive at what point and why the term "highboy" first originated. Obviously "lowboy" only applies to the 77.5 and later, but was that just an obvious choice of labels in 1977 since the term "highboy" already existed in use, or were the 2 terms originated at the same time for the same purpose? I'm very curious to find out.

To be a little clearer, I see 2 possible scenarios:

1. The terms hi-boy and lo-boy were coined by Ford or someone else in 1977 to distinguish the 2 entirely different models for which virtually none of the equipment(parts) would interchange.

2. The term hi-boy existed prior to 1977, maybe as far back as 1969, to distinguish between the HD version and the normal, or LD version. The obvious choice of terms in 1977 would have been to call the new style the lo-boy, opposite of the prior years description. Prior to 1977.5, distinguishing between a hi-boy and non-highboy would not have been critical, because most parts were interchangeable. The springs or axle parts would have naturally generated the need for more specific GVWR info to get the right parts.

I think this is where Mr. N has been confused. He assumed that if it wasn't a hi-boy, it was naturally a lo-boy, and since all lo-boys have 36" wide frames, therefore there must be prior to 1977.5 36" frames. In actuality though, even if the term hi-boy existed prior to 1977, there were just hi-boys and non-highboys, and still no lo-boys until January of 1977.

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Old 03-16-2008, 05:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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And I disagree that there was a "lowboy" F-250 4x4 build during those same years

Granted, there were axle and tranfer case differences, but they all had that same height and frame similarity that identify them as a "highboy".
Now, as soon as I find my info in writing... you'll be proven wrong.

Looks like, walks like a fact...
F250 crewcab 4x4 used the 2wd frame. So thus, not ALL F250's from the mid 70's are highboys. So, looks like your statement will be proven wrong.
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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MR N,just curious,on the site you have,you"ve got the axle shown in post 12 as a small kingpin non highboy,thats the axle that was stock in my 74 f 250, i just replaced that axle with one from a 76 f 250,mine was listed as 6600 gvw
Can you get me some picture of that axle?

Your vehicle GVW was 6600, however that front axle should be 3,300.
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGVABronco78 View Post
All pre-77.5 frames were the same,
Please go into more detail. With general statements like this you make your argument weaker.
Is there a difference's between the 2wd frame and 4wd frame?
What about the different styles of truck, wheelbase? Surely they were different frames.
What about the change in part number in 1973?

So, there were a changes. Looks like more false info...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JGVABronco78
I think this is where Mr. N has been confused. He assumed that if it wasn't a hi-boy, it was naturally a lo-boy, and since all lo-boys have 36" wide frames, therefore there must be prior to 1977.5 36" frames. In actuality though, even if the term hi-boy existed prior to 1977.5, there were just hi-boys and non-highboys, and still no lo-boys.
Your on track. However I use the term lowboys loosely. I just want to verify it's not a Highboy.
Yes, right now I understand the no highboys to have the wider frame. I've yet to find my proof.... but I've talked to several old timers who assure me they also have seen them like I did.
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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It does to me, (& I mean that respectfully) it is hard to tell in the pic, but that spring as at least 3 maybe 4 leafs, the front eye/bolt is higher than the top of the spring, the "lo-boy" (77.5 & later) would have 2 leafs & the reverse arch would allow the top of the spring to set even with the front bolt/eye, That pic looks to have about 3-4" more hight than a 77.5, 78, & 79 truck would have,

Just guessing,

Thanks for the pics of the low pinion 60,
Thanks for the reply!
Yes, it's not a 77.5 and later leaf spring configuration. So, the frame is different from a 77.5+, so the leafs don't tell us much.
Other then they don't look like a same year highboy leaf set up. They are close, but all highboys I've seen have 5, usually 6 leafs up front.
This truck is long gone and so are my picture of it, it still could be a non-highboy.

edit, found a better picture of the light duty axle.
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM View Post
after 77.5-79 springs had 2 leafs and were flat.
I think the 2 leafs is an 80's thing.

Then explain this this picture?

3 leafs, on what clearly is a 77.5-79 axle



5 leafs, on what clearly is a 77.5-79 axle
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Highboy = any F-series 4x4 with front leaf springs and a divorced transfer case. These two design features require a good deal of suspension height.

F100/F150 switched over '65ish. F250 switched over '77ish.

F250s highboys used a number of different axles - all low-pinion:
D44 closed knuckle, small joint, small hub, drums
D44 closed knuckle, large joint, large hub, drums
D44 open knuckle, small joint, large hub, discs
D60 closed knuckle, drums (crewcab)
D60 open knuckle, discs (crewcab)
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