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Old 10-03-2002, 12:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

I have 1979 F150 housing with everything on it. I found a 1977 F250 housing. I was wondering if I can move the knuckles, spindles, disc brackets, rotors and discs from the 79 f150 onto the 77 F250 housing? I did a search and came up with some other questions that I had. So what do you think about the swap. I think that everything will fit.
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Old 10-03-2002, 01:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why? If the F250 axle (Dana 44) is complete run that. If the 79 F150 housing is complete run that, it should be reverse cut as well. I don't know if the ball joints between these two are the same or not. I would think that would be what you need to look at to see if they'll swap. I'd run the 79 Dana 44 because it'd reverse cut. Right me if I'm wrong in any of this.

Plus moving the knuckle is some major work, so why not rebuild the F150 axle and make it burly. People usually run 38's on these w/o much problem unless they have a lead foot like me-that's why I run 35s-36s.
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Old 10-03-2002, 02:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I would guess that he is going to use coils, so 250 is out. You don't have to swap the knuckles, but if you do they will be flat tops.
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Old 10-03-2002, 04:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If this is to get an 8 lug front so you can got to a Dana 60 rear, have disc brakes and use the same wheel pattern at both ends it's a good idea.
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Old 10-03-2002, 08:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

Quote:
Originally posted by NateH
I have 1979 F150 housing with everything on it. I found a 1977 F250 housing. I was wondering if I can move the knuckles, spindles, disc brackets, rotors and discs from the 79 f150 onto the 77 F250 housing? I did a search and came up with some other questions that I had. So what do you think about the swap. I think that everything will fit.
NateH
Good thinking. I have never done this but you should be able to swap the 79 knuckle out on to the 77 F250 housing, if they are both ball joints. (If the F250 has ball joints it's a Reverse Rotation. Also the 78-79 1/2 ton housing is junk!)
Get me the BOM from both axles and I'll give you the outer shaft lengths. Best plan is to run the F250 inner axle shaft and the F150 outer shaft with the new spicer joint.
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Old 10-03-2002, 08:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sorry I miss spoke before. I am not swapping the knuckles. I plan on swapping the splindles. ball joints, backing plate, rotors and calipers. I plan on running coils in the front. I have a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I will make the brackets and wled them onto the housing. The reason that I want to run the f250 axle housing is because it is stronger, has leaf plates on it, and I can weld on it. The 79 f150 has the cast ears on it so I can not run the custom suspesion that I want. I looked in to see if the 77 and 79 uses the same ball joints and they do. So I guess that I will try to swap everything from the knuckles out onto the f250. From what I have found they both use the same calipers, bearings, seals, ball joint. So I hope everything goes good. They should both be RC 44 so my air locker and gears will work. I will just have to reset the backlash, and redo my steering.
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Old 10-03-2002, 08:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Re: 77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.N
If the F250 has ball joints it's a Reverse Rotation.
Nope, F-250 D-44 1976 thru 1977 1/2 is Ball jointed and LOW pinion with disc breaks


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Old 10-03-2002, 09:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Also the 78-79 1/2 ton housing is junk!)
How do you figure that a reverse rotation 44 housing is junk??

I agree that if you are running larger than 38's in rocks you have good chances of bending the tubes and tweaking the knuckles.

Is that what you mean or do you think they are junk in general?
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think he is using the word "junk" as a complement.

My junk '79 housing has held up to over 5 years of sand, mud and rocks with 36s and 38s. The tubes may be thinner but the cast piece takes up a lot of the span on the long side which might even make it harder to bend. Don't know, don't care cause it was cheap and it works.

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Old 10-04-2002, 06:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: 77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

Quote:
Originally posted by Alpo23


Nope, F-250 D-44 1976 thru 1977 1/2 is Ball jointed and LOW pinion with disc breaks


Eric
Nope? I've a pic of a 76 with closed knuckles! I've yet to see a 76-77.5 with ball joints. How do you figure?
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Old 10-04-2002, 06:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stonyford


How do you figure that a reverse rotation 44 housing is junk??
F250 has 1/2" wall tubes, the 1979 Dana 44 might have a 1/4" center tube To me a 1/4" tube is junk.
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Old 10-04-2002, 06:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.N

Nope? I've a pic of a 76 with closed knuckles! I've yet to see a 76-77.5 with ball joints. How do you figure?

Every '76 I've seen has disc brakes, No closed knuckle ever had disc brakes. And they were open knuckles....Found two with the big hub option when I was hunting for an axle to put in my '73 to get discs. one was a '76 with C-6 and NP-203 divroced, the other was a NP-435 with NP-205 divorced, Both had low pinion open knuckles. As for the Ball joints....hmmmmm I'll have to get back to you on that but I'm 99% sure they were ball joint and not king-pin like the earlier D-44 on the F-100.......





Eric


P.s. If you have access to that " 76 " axle get the BOM off of it
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Old 10-04-2002, 07:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 77 f250 with 79 f150 knuckles and outers?

Quote:
Originally posted by Alpo23



Every '76 I've seen has disc brakes, No closed knuckle ever had disc brakes. And they were open knuckles....Found two with the big hub option when I was hunting for an axle to put in my '73 to get discs. one was a '76 with C-6 and NP-203 divroced, the other was a NP-435 with NP-205 divorced, Both had low pinion open knuckles. As for the Ball joints....hmmmmm I'll have to get back to you on that but I'm 99% sure they were ball joint and not king-pin like the earlier D-44 on the F-100.......

P.s. If you have access to that " 76 " axle get the BOM off of it
I'll get the BOM next time I vist that yard. Now I need to find a pic of a 76-77.5 F250. Just when I was close to done

edit-> With what Ford did in different plants, it's possiable is an early 77, with a 76 axle. Or someone swapped the axle for higher gears.
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Old 10-04-2002, 07:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by NateH
I am not swapping the knuckles. I plan on swapping the splindles. ball joints, backing plate, rotors and calipers.

So I guess that I will try to swap everything from the knuckles out onto the f250. From what I have found they both use the same calipers, bearings, seals, ball joint.
NateH
Which is it?
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Old 10-08-2002, 01:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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okay here is the scoop on
housings

this is for 1973-1979 ford 4x4 trucks
from the factory

all 3/4 ton 4x4s before 1976 had closed joint knuckles with drum brakes dana 44 and 60

(found in crew cabs)

1976-1977 1/2 had low pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (found in

crew cabs)

1977 1/2 - 79 had high pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (known as

the snowfighter package)

1/2 ton 74 and earlier had drum brakes

1967-1979 had high pinion housings

knuckle for disc brakes interchange between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton dana 44s
how ever the 1/2 brake parts will not fit because the knuckle needs a notch for the caliper
the 3/4 parts will fit the 1/2 ton knuckles

all disc brake 3/4 4x4 uses dual piston calipers dana 44 and 60
1/2 tons use single piston calipers

check out my site www.ncspecialties.com autobody link
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by infoford
okay here is the scoop on
housings

this is for 1973-1979 ford 4x4 trucks
from the factory

all 3/4 ton 4x4s before 1976 had closed joint knuckles with drum brakes dana 44 and 60

(found in crew cabs)

1976-1977 1/2 had low pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (found in

crew cabs)

1977 1/2 - 79 had high pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (known as

the snowfighter package)

1/2 ton 74 and earlier had drum brakes

1967-1979 had high pinion housings

knuckle for disc brakes interchange between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton dana 44s
how ever the 1/2 brake parts will not fit because the knuckle needs a notch for the caliper
the 3/4 parts will fit the 1/2 ton knuckles

all disc brake 3/4 4x4 uses dual piston calipers dana 44 and 60
1/2 tons use single piston calipers

check out my site www.ncspecialties.com autobody link
Where did you get your info?
1st, are you sure on the disk brakes? As far as I can tell 1973 was the first year for disk brakes on a 4x2, but 1976 was the first years for the 4x4 disk brakes. I've yet to find 73-75 disk brakes on a 4x4, not saying it was an option, I just haven't seen any proof.
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ah....the never ending Saga of what came when


First off: Disc brakes were an option as early as 1968 for the 4x2 F-250 and F-350. This is the only models shown for discs in my Factory Shop manual for 1968.

Second: 1976 IS the first year Discs were availible on a 4x4, 1/2 ton or any other tonnage. infact it was standard equipment since it was a federal requirement.

For more info go here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ight=ford+tech


Eric

And welcome newbie
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Old 10-08-2002, 06:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The thin axle tube on the 78/79 axle is not a problem if you think about it. That thin section of tube is what a few inches long. And how much weight is taken by the tube, not alot since the coil and radius arm are past it. Now granted if you have the choice on what one to use, I would also go with the weld on c mounts. If I had the 78/9 one I would be in no hurry to get rid of it.
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Old 10-08-2002, 07:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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if you read my whole post I was only talking about the FOUR WHEEL DRIVE models yes the 2wheel drive trucks came with disc as a an option as early as 68 typically on the camper specials
the half ton FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1975 the 3/4
FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1976
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Old 10-08-2002, 07:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by infoford
if you read my whole post I was only talking about the FOUR WHEEL DRIVE models yes the 2wheel drive trucks came with disc as a an option as early as 68 typically on the camper specials
the half ton FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1975 the 3/4
FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1976
Where are you finding info on 1975 as the first year? I haven't seen that in print, at least not from Dana or Ford. (Then again..)
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Old 10-08-2002, 07:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alpo23
Ah....the never ending Saga of what came when
You bet, we've a newbie
Welcome infoford

Oyeah, It Reverse Rotation, not high pinion.
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I use to work in a 4x4 wrecking yard for almost ten years before I started my own business the hollander exchange books plus the trucks I junked out gave extensive knowledge on what came on trucks whether it was ford chevy or dodge
ford had disc on their 1/2 ton 4x4s in 75 but if everyone want to believe that they came out in 76 so be it I not going to argue of one year
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:02 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by emsoffroad
The thin axle tube on the 78/79 axle is not a problem if you think about it. That thin section of tube is what a few inches long. And how much weight is taken by the tube, not alot since the coil and radius arm are past it. Now granted if you have the choice on what one to use, I would also go with the weld on c mounts. If I had the 78/9 one I would be in no hurry to get rid of it.
Few inches? It's the center tube, from pumpkin to cast C-mount, more like a couple feet.
Anyways, if the front axle is left under a Ford with coils it works well. I almost bought a 79 Bronco last month with 33", I wouldn't have changed the axle becasue of this week point. However for my trail runer with 38" I wouldn't run that axle.
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.N
You bet, we've a newbie
Welcome infoford

Oyeah, It Reverse Rotation, not high pinion.
Infoford: don't pay Mr N. no-nevermind, he's a stickler for this 'Reverse Rotation' over 'HP' thing......



'You say '75 for F-100 discs uh????Hmmmm, I'll have to look into this somemore, I'm not above admiting if I'm wrong after cross-checking info.



Eric
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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okay if you really want to get technical
your reverse rotation is actually called a reverse cut ring and pinion

hence the standard cut ring and pinion on a low pinion diff is the
same as a rear dana 44 or a rear dana 60 pending on what front end you have in ford (chevy 12 bolt front end "not dana" use the same gear as the chevy 12 bolt rear

the design of the ring and pinion is stronger going in one direction
then the other the power side is stronger then the coast side
the coast side is only about 80% the strength so when it is moved to the front housing and when you are under power you are running on the coast side of the gears ford had dana design a high pinion housing with reverse cut gears you gain 20% in strength in that alone because you are running on the power side by design if was a reverse rotation then you would have major bind up

and thanks for the welcome
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