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Strongest possible d50 or any TTB set-up

33K views 64 replies 24 participants last post by  CherokeefromMI 
#1 ·
So basically I am planning on building a prerunner out of a 97 f-250 crew cab, short bed, diesel 4x4. I know they came from the factory with the D50 TTB set-up, but no one really seems to know exactly how to make one to stand up to a ton of power and torque like I am doing with this truck. Can anyone shed some light on how to build the strongest D50 ttb set-up please. I am already going to have them cut, turned, and extended, but I am worried about killing axles, u-joints, hubs, and other things with such a heavy truck that has so much power on 37's.


Any advice is appreciated,
-Mikey
 
#2 ·
There a build in Hardcore jeep he used a ttb setup and D60 shafts and outers. What kind of powerpant you talking about? 460? maybe something in the small block forced induction flavor? specifics and we can help you more. Sorry I don't have the link but it's a fairly recent build a quick search should find it.
 
#3 ·
Hmm I guess I forgot to specify. It is a 7.3L powerstroke and I am planning on pushing 600 ft/lbs of torque or more through them. I am not going to do any serious wheeling that I know of, I just want to be able to use the 4x for the sand and not have to worry about anything. I need the 4x for north dakota where the military is sending me :shaking: lol.


Also I am just new to the 4x world, not new to trucks at all.
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/04yfzkid/93 extra cab/?action=view&current=DSC_7794.jpg
 
#4 · (Edited)
ok i'm gunna assume you aren't gunna build a "prerunner" out of a 7 or 8K lb truck. cause that would be dumb.

to build a strong TTB:
take torch
remove all ttb parts made by ford
find D60 drop outs now being offered.
get beams made for that.
get kingpin D60 outers
make radius arms (3 to 4 foot long)
beeef the engine crossmemeber.
beef the frame mounts for coils or coilovers

if you are gunna keep the diesel and big cab and long wheelbase and heavy tires then give up now.

the one thing you can do to go faster is to lose weight. so less cab, less frame length, less motor weight, less tire weight, axle weight, etc.

edit:eek:k missed your last post.
you can't get that kinda travel with TTB. if you went solid axle it would be possible but with TTB you have to worry about the center U-joint. it can't handle that kinda angle.
 
#5 ·
Like I said it's going to be a prerunner, not a race truck. It has been done before, just never with a 4x or a diesel that I have seen. I have seen diesels that people have built before though. The truck will see the desert maybe once or twice a year, going to be street driven other then that.

About the TTB, are you just saying the center u-joint can't handle that much power, or just can't handle drive line angles like that? I have seen many many d44 trucks pull easily that much travel (19") but I am only shooting for around 15-17" with coilover, bypass, and bumps.

The only thing I see being difficult is doing a TTB from scratch. I know of a company that has built one before, but that is very rare. I would like to stick to just modifying the stock beams but if that's not an option I will have done what is necessary lol.
 
#6 ·
the d50 has a bigger center u-joint. most of the guys pulling big travel out of D44's swap tp the D50 joint.

d50 beams are shorter then d44 beams (or so i've been told.)
in my opinion the D50 can't hold stock power on a worn out 351 on 35's much less 3 times that power with more weight. if you know how to drive it can be done. but for me the worry isn't worth it.

to do the D60 parts in a ttb arrangement would be really cool. no one wants to spend the money around here. but yall desert guys aren't afraid of writing checks. i bet you could do it for ten grand.


the big difference between what you've seen and what you want to do it the weight. most of the guys i've seen running big (one ton) chase trucks are running solid front ends. that said go make something work.
 
#7 ·
Here's a link to the guy's thread where he's building a D50 with D60 shafts to take on KOH:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=829346

However I'd be a little leery of the D50 ring & pinion gears with 37" tires and the weight of a big huge crew-cab truck running a diesel. I would have to agree something full-on custom using a D60 centersection is probably in order here.
 
#8 ·
Sweet I will go through that thread.

I don't mind spending the money where I need to. I don't want to spend 10k on the front end, but if it comes down to that I will. I was told there is an upgrade to 35 spline shafts for sale out there so I could do that, and I will need custom axles anyways for the extended width of the truck so I could beef those up. I guess I need to read up a little more on the TTB stuff so I can understand exactly what might possible be a weak link.


I do really appreciate all the help so far guys.
 
#9 ·
So basically I am planning on building a prerunner out of a 97 f-250 crew cab, short bed, diesel 4x4. I know they came from the factory with the D50 TTB set-up, but no one really seems to know exactly how to make one to stand up to a ton of power and torque like I am doing with this truck.
Mikey,
You should really skip the idea of building your Dana 50 for your above listed need.
Build a 60 or 70 front, and you'll be happier and it will cost less.


Corey on the other hand has different requirements, and it sure is fun to watch his build up of a Dana 50.
 
#11 ·
Unless I could build a nice TTB set-up using 60 or 70 parts I am not really interested in doing a solid front axle for this truck. I have owned nothing but beamed trucks and love them.

You could always go to a mid / long travel A-Arm set up... Using chevy front end parts. Would likely be pricey, but would entirely out perform a solid axle of any make.

You would more than likely be looking at some serious custom fabrication, but imagine the possibilities / performance available.

If you ever plan on airing this thing out, I would go with 2wd beams. Build it and be done.

If you are morally opposed to chevy parts on a ford truck, then go the easy way out and straight axle it. I wouldn't ever expect it to match an A-Arm set up, much less a beam truck performance wise.

A dana 50 could be made to work, it would take some serious beam work. Cut and turn, along with extending the inner section of the drivers side beam, fabricating radius arm mounts, etc. Custom shafts all around, and a cryo'd ring and pinion at the very least.

Good luck either way, and post some pics when you get it done.
Lets just put it this way, I am having a friend build me a set of CUSTOM ttb's so I am trying to figure out what part I need to put in them. Per Corey's build, I think I have found what I can do to make them last. People were making them last with 750hp big blocks on 36" paddles with way more abuse then this truck will ever see.

YouTube - Þórir Schiöth syrpa

No matter what the beams are getting cut, turned, extended, plated up, new chromo axles, new gearing with some kind of traction aid, and what ever else is necessary. I already know I am going to ditch the leafs in a heart beat for coilovers, bypasses, and hyrdrualic bump stops with a pair of radius arms. Money is not really much of an option here because I am selling my race truck to pay for JUST THE FRONT END and rear suspension on this truck. Hopefully I should be looking at around 15k here plus what ever I save over the next year.


It is sounding like I might have to go equal length because with the use of a 1480 ujoint up at the diff output to go to the opposite side beam, it will hit the beam pivots. At a very least we will have to spread the pivots out a little bit more.


I think you guys think I am going to do KOH type stuff with this truck. The only real 4x stuff it will see is what a stock 4x yota pickup with street tires and open diffs will go through.


Here is some pictures of my other trucks I have owned and pieced together over the last two years. Modified trucks and spending lots of money on them is no big deal to me













 
#10 ·
You could always go to a mid / long travel A-Arm set up... Using chevy front end parts. Would likely be pricey, but would entirely out perform a solid axle of any make.

You would more than likely be looking at some serious custom fabrication, but imagine the possibilities / performance available.

If you ever plan on airing this thing out, I would go with 2wd beams. Build it and be done.

If you are morally opposed to chevy parts on a ford truck, then go the easy way out and straight axle it. I wouldn't ever expect it to match an A-Arm set up, much less a beam truck performance wise.

A dana 50 could be made to work, it would take some serious beam work. Cut and turn, along with extending the inner section of the drivers side beam, fabricating radius arm mounts, etc. Custom shafts all around, and a cryo'd ring and pinion at the very least.

Good luck either way, and post some pics when you get it done.
 
#14 ·
Getting air is about the only thing a TTB is good for. There was a green Bronco in 4WOR magazine a few years back that was getting 10' of air on the stock axles, he'd just built up the suspension to take the pounding. There's a user here, or was---I don't know if he's still around--"simon5ay5" or something like that, who owns a 5.0L powered Ranger that he desert races---on a D44 TTB.


Here's his build thread:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=693586&highlight=simon5ay5

And his Youtube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/simon5ay5
 
#16 ·
Wouldnt it be better to build up a mean small block to take some of the weight off the front axle? I mean air time and nose weight just dont sound like a good idea to me but what do I know Ive never seen a desert let alone try jumping through dunes.
 
#20 ·
Oh it would make a ton more sense! Actually a supercrew would make the most sense for a 5 seater to build, and a small ranger / toyota will be the most reliable truck to build. I have had all those trucks already, they just don't have the power around town with out a motor swap or other work. With this truck I wont have to worry about driving it home in cali with all the power I hope to make, or worry about getting 5 mph everywhere.

honestly dude, you know a lot more about the desert and abuse the truck will see than 99% of the people on this board. i would just make sure you have 35 spline cro moly axles and beefy attachment points for everything and call it good. i doubt the ring and pinion will fail. its not like you are going to be doing 4wd burnouts and drag racing 1/4 miles with this truck too are you?

i think its a great idea and i know it will work really well aside from being heavy as shit. my buddy just did the same thing to his 97 PSD CC SB and couldn't be happier with how it performs now. he didn't extend beams or anything but coil overs ride so much better than the leafs its silly not to if you know how.
Thanks man, I am just going to go for it and build the drive train a little over kill where I can. Nope don't plan on doing any of that. Maybe the last two years I would have done 4x burnouts or if I went solid axle, but I have grown up from that. The Air Force is really teaching me attention to detail now :).

Really, thats pretty bad ass! Would you happen to have any pictures of it or video? I would definitely love to see it :smokin:

this might be alittle bit of help the formula off-road guys run the ttb 50
here is a pic. of the rig and list of the stuff he has had done to the frontend

The D60 35 spline stuff will fit the D50 spindles, hubs and knuckles.

All you have to do is use an outer axle that is a little bit shorter than a standard D60 Ford outer, remove the thrust bearing on the axleshaft to get the u-joint in line with the balljoint center axis.

On the TTB I had Jack at CTM make me a 35 spline slip yoke with D60 U-joint. I also machined a standard D50 carrier to put in D60 35 spline side gears and welded them to the carrier.

Standard 35 spline drive flanges for Ford/Chevy fits the D50 hubs.

The only problem I have is the upper balljoints wearing out quickly, but that is probably the result of using 18" wide wheels with only 3" backspacing.
Oh thanks man that is the info I was looking for! :smokin:. I knew somewhere out there, someone had to be doing something with the D50 TTB. Is that your truck, or when it says "I" it's coming from a copy and pasted article? Really appreciate the help.
 
#17 ·
honestly dude, you know a lot more about the desert and abuse the truck will see than 99% of the people on this board. i would just make sure you have 35 spline cro moly axles and beefy attachment points for everything and call it good. i doubt the ring and pinion will fail. its not like you are going to be doing 4wd burnouts and drag racing 1/4 miles with this truck too are you?

i think its a great idea and i know it will work really well aside from being heavy as shit. my buddy just did the same thing to his 97 PSD CC SB and couldn't be happier with how it performs now. he didn't extend beams or anything but coil overs ride so much better than the leafs its silly not to if you know how.
 
#19 ·
this might be alittle bit of help the formula off-road guys run the ttb 50
here is a pic. of the rig and list of the stuff he has had done to the frontend

The D60 35 spline stuff will fit the D50 spindles, hubs and knuckles.

All you have to do is use an outer axle that is a little bit shorter than a standard D60 Ford outer, remove the thrust bearing on the axleshaft to get the u-joint in line with the balljoint center axis.

On the TTB I had Jack at CTM make me a 35 spline slip yoke with D60 U-joint. I also machined a standard D50 carrier to put in D60 35 spline side gears and welded them to the carrier.

Standard 35 spline drive flanges for Ford/Chevy fits the D50 hubs.

The only problem I have is the upper balljoints wearing out quickly, but that is probably the result of using 18" wide wheels with only 3" backspacing.
 
#51 ·
heres a few pics of my buddys F250 CCSB you were asking about. he doesn't have a build thread here but the pics are pretty self explanatory.












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no thats slick :smokin: the best idea i have seen on pirate in months, i have a 95 f250 psd im building for my tow rig but that leaf sprung ttb rides like ass, radius arms and coils bad ass and easy to do :D
 
#26 ·
I put a TTB on my buggy, for the price you can pick these up for, I have a complete spare, plus figure I can upgrade as I break stuff. I did a cut & turn, and beefed up what I could for now.
 
#27 ·
Stupid mulitquote doesn't work on my phone.

Yes Mr. N it will be a mall cruise for now but that is only for one reason, I will be stationed in north dakota. After that it's back home to railing across the desert and hitting whoop sections at 70 mph, cruising around glamis / pismo, and chasing for teams down in baja. Maybe the ocasional cruising around 4x stuff. I have gotten my monies worth out of ever single truck I have owned and this truck will be no different....after it's properly built. Tired of driving trucks that I threw together with no cage, and lots of weak links in them.

Andy, that thing looks pretty rad. You said the beams are stock? (minus the obvious brackets for the radius arms and shock tabs). Do you know if the owner has broken anything wheeling?

4x4e350, that is a rad buggy! Got any more pics? What motor does it have, and is it a completly built as you in you take it out and wheel with it? If so have you broke anything yet?


Thanks for all the comments and help guys, I really appreciate it.
 
#29 ·
4x4e350, that is a rad buggy! Got any more pics? What motor does it have, and is it a completly built as you in you take it out and wheel with it? If so have you broke anything yet?


Thanks, basically it started out as a VW dune buggy frame, and has evolved into this. It has a 300 straight six with a turbo added, propane powered, dual 1356 transfer cases. It is still a work in progress, but I hope to have it wheeling in a few months if everything goes well.
 
#28 ·
with all the 9" goodies that are out there, and since you are having beams built, perhaps build around a 9" center section and it sould make gear/axle/etc options more plentiful and easier. Also for the ball joints, since you're going to be running the diseal, i would look at swapping out to something stronger (like a uniball, perhaps dynatrac's new ball joints that are supposed to be pretty bling). Again, since you're building the beams, build the equal length and as wideas you can make them. Couple quick things i've learned is once you know your total travel you want, set the radius arms and beams to be dead level at mid travel if possible.
 
#37 ·
I am going to pretty much copy corey's build of his xj. Going to do a d60 kingpin spindle with d60 stub axles with 1480 u-joints and longer arp studs, then up to custom axles and probably a custom slip with 35 spline axles going into the pumpkin. Hopefully a 1480 u-joint at the center between the diff and the slip, but clearance is very tight there. Thinking about custom d60 kingpins because they are about $250 each online.

Not sure what I am going to in the diff to accept the 35 spline axles, and weather or not to do a air locker or what. Also since I need longer studs, should I worry about going 5/8th studs on an 8 lug truck.

Also confused on what hub I will have to use to keep it so I can lock and unluck the hubs because this will be a street driven truck
 
#38 ·
badass build man.
I'm workin on mine, but we don't have any go fast areas here in michigan, so the details are a little bit diffirent. I have a radius arm'd d50 and it seems to do ok, but I am only sporting a 351w. I am looking for a 4.5 cummins or a 5.9 CR for it, but I am not about to spend 10k on just an engine.
Everything here rusts too, so yeah, those crewcabs are hard to find.

Keep with the creativity, it is nice to see something diffirent
 
#40 ·
Where I am now up here in minot, there is no real go fast areas either that I have found. Thats why I am choosing to build a diesel because I can still put down a lot of power through it once I get the suspension done. Do you have any pictures of it by chance?

Lots of great info in there...
Oh I agree there is. I have been asking him a fair amount of questions. Everytime I read the TTB portion of his build he gives a lot of credit to you :grinpimp::smokin:
 
#44 ·
So a spacer, and longer spindle studs with the D50 knuckle, and D60 spindle??


I'm curious how you will use king pins on a TTB?

My plan is a D44 beams, (they are longer), D50 center section, D50 outer "C's" (for the bigger ball joints, and use of the D50 knuckle), D60 spindles, spacer, 35 spline outters and hubs.

For now, I'm going to have stock solid axle D60 shafts cut/re-splined to work with the D50 center section.


The weak link in that setup becomes the splined shafts where they fit into the center section.
 
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