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Old 11-13-2010, 10:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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super duty disc brakes on 94 sterling 10.25

I searched but havent found what i am looking for. I have a customer with a 1994 f350 that we put a cummins in a couple of years ago. At that time we put a TSM rear disc conversion on it. The ebrake on the eldorado calipers doesnt hold the truck worth a damn. Its just too heavy. SO my question is does anybody know if the superduty ebrake setup will work on the earlier sterling axle. I can redrill the rotors, but is the offset on the hubs the same. Has anybody done this swap. If so what parts work. My customer doesnt mind buying new parts from the dealer if thats what it takes. Just need to know if this will work.

Paul
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you considered a driveline brake? I am interested in this as well, getting ready to do the swap myself.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Newer 1 ton ford vans have discs, IIRC they are dana axles however, might be something to look at though, this way a rotor from any parts store could be used with no machine work.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by brewchief View Post
Newer 1 ton ford vans have discs, IIRC they are dana axles however, might be something to look at though, this way a rotor from any parts store could be used with no machine work.
Another bonus of the van axle is they are not the metric bolt pattern that the Super Dutys use, I'm hunting for one right now for the next project.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes the Van's use disks with a built in drum. I've not seen these axles though. The rotors are also a standard 8x6.5 pattern.

If you can adapt the backing plates to the Sterling you should be able to make it work. You might have to change your caliper brackets though.....I would imagine they would need to be welded to the axle further inboard.

The van rotors are what I'm using on a 10.25 disk setup, and it uses Chevy 3/4 calipers and no E-brake. I'm thinking about eventually adding a line lock style "E-brake"

The rotor in this setup fits all the way against the hub-basically slides on from the outside. Again I would have to see the plates on the D60 van axles to know for sure how they are setup.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Another bonus of the van axle is they are not the metric bolt pattern that the Super Dutys use, I'm hunting for one right now for the next project.

From what I understand you don't have to bore the spindles for 35 spline axles either...

And if you do a search for JANA 76 Carl Jantz is putting D70 10.5 gears in D60's
Plus it has VSS if you need that. As far as FF D60's you can't get better.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's the swap using the Van parts. It's not my website but one I found while researching the brake swap on my project.

http://www.fordmann.com/F350.rear_disc_brakes.htm
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies so far. Anybody have any thing else. We are not willing to swap the axle out and I do not want to cut and weld a brake flange due to liability on the job. If it was my own vehicle I would have no problem cutting and welding the flange. A drive line brake is out of the question due to no location on the truck to mount it. Line locks are not street legal in the state of TX since we do annual safety inspections and it is not a mechanical brake.

Does anybody have the dimensions of the backing plate bolt pattern on the sterling axles.

Hopefully I get a super duty in tomorrow and I can measure the bolt pattern on the backing plate. I can always redrill the rotors on a superduty setup.

Paul
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies so far. Anybody have any thing else. We are not willing to swap the axle out and I do not want to cut and weld a brake flange due to liability on the job. If it was my own vehicle I would have no problem cutting and welding the flange. A drive line brake is out of the question due to no location on the truck to mount it. Line locks are not street legal in the state of TX since we do annual safety inspections and it is not a mechanical brake.

Does anybody have the dimensions of the backing plate bolt pattern on the sterling axles.

Hopefully I get a super duty in tomorrow and I can measure the bolt pattern on the backing plate. I can always redrill the rotors on a superduty setup.

Paul

Redrilling the rotors won't be the problem with a superduty. The hubs will still be the wrong bolt pattern.....And you can't re-drill those.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Redrilling the rotors won't be the problem with a superduty. The hubs will still be the wrong bolt pattern.....And you can't re-drill those.
But thats what I am asking for. If the hub is the same offset between the two trucks then I should be able to reuse the original hub with a redrilled rotor. Ill update this as I find out more info.

Paul
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i'm looking at the same thing, actually i'd like to build a parking pawl into the driveline somewhere. you should be able to add a line lock, why would they have a problem with it if you still have a mechanical e brake in the el dorado calipers? that way you can set the e brake, set the line lock, then you can chock the tires if need be. i know the line lock will lose pressure but if your on a steep hill just use it to give yourself enough time to get out and chock it.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But thats what I am asking for. If the hub is the same offset between the two trucks then I should be able to reuse the original hub with a redrilled rotor. Ill update this as I find out more info.

Paul


The hubs on the superduty and on the 10.25's are COMPLETELY different. They really are very different.

you can't re-drill them because their is a boss cast into the back of the hub at each stud...It's not a solid flange. I guess you could machine it flat and remove all the bosses on the back side. Then re-drill. But your removing a significant amount of strength from the hubs if you do that.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The bearing spacing and hub offset are both different. The 10.25 has a much wider bearing spacing, and a longer hub.
I'd think the E-series brake setup would be the thing to look into, as Ford used a similar wheel end setup on the danas and sterlings, it may be close to fitting without any major work.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This is the set-up from Ruff Stuff. I am wondering if the E350 emergency brake stuff would work for ya?



http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...ket-p-342.html

"Ford Sterling Disc Brake Bracket, '84-'94

Here you are, an easy bolt on bracket for the Sterling axles! This one also uses the GM Caliper ('73-87 3/4 Ton 4x4 Front with the MKD153 pads) because it is 1/2 the cost of the Ford and way less expensive to put together than the wedge system. The rotor is a '96 Ford E350 Van Rear rotor (NAPA#4886799). These were a long time coming but way worth the wait. However there is of course an exception to the rule here. In '94 Ford changed the inner bearing width changed and to use this with the later years a 1/8" spacer would be required. All of our brake brackets are sold in pairs."
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This is the set-up from Ruff Stuff. I am wondering if the E350 emergency brake stuff would work for ya?



http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...ket-p-342.html

"Ford Sterling Disc Brake Bracket, '84-'94

Here you are, an easy bolt on bracket for the Sterling axles! This one also uses the GM Caliper ('73-87 3/4 Ton 4x4 Front with the MKD153 pads) because it is 1/2 the cost of the Ford and way less expensive to put together than the wedge system. The rotor is a '96 Ford E350 Van Rear rotor (NAPA#4886799). These were a long time coming but way worth the wait. However there is of course an exception to the rule here. In '94 Ford changed the inner bearing width changed and to use this with the later years a 1/8" spacer would be required. All of our brake brackets are sold in pairs."
Yea but no E-brake. He's looking for an upgrade from the caddy caliper swap for a better E-brake.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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A drive line brake is out of the question due to no location on the truck to mount it. Line locks are not street legal in the state of TX since we do annual safety inspections and it is not a mechanical brake.
Keep the caddy ebrake. Regardless of how heavy the truck is it should hold. If not you need to look at why and fix that problem. My guess is either the ebrake cable bracket that mounts to the caliper is bending or the ebrake cable is stretching.

Ok, let's assume you can't fix the problem with the ebrake caliper. Keep it on there so it passes state inspection. Then add two line locks. Put one on the front and one on the rear. If the ebrake caliper works kinda ok then just put one on the front to help out.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yea but no E-brake. He's looking for an upgrade from the caddy caliper swap for a better E-brake.
The rotors have a small drum in them for an e-brake, perhaps the E350 e-brake set-up would work?

Blackbirds customs has a kit for the sterling which includes e-brakes, but I don't know what they are using. http://www.blackbirdscustomtrucks.com/index8.html#6str Probably Caddy stuff, but it might warrant a call.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisevans2645 View Post
i'm looking at the same thing, actually i'd like to build a parking pawl into the driveline somewhere. you should be able to add a line lock, why would they have a problem with it if you still have a mechanical e brake in the el dorado calipers? that way you can set the e brake, set the line lock, then you can chock the tires if need be. i know the line lock will lose pressure but if your on a steep hill just use it to give yourself enough time to get out and chock it.
Line lock will not work, for legal reasons and the fact that it is not a solution, its a band aid to the problem.


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Originally Posted by CherokeefromMI View Post
The hubs on the superduty and on the 10.25's are COMPLETELY different. They really are very different.
you can't re-drill them because their is a boss cast into the back of the hub at each stud...It's not a solid flange. I guess you could machine it flat and remove all the bosses on the back side. Then re-drill. But your removing a significant amount of strength from the hubs if you do that.
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Originally Posted by 82F100SWB View Post
The bearing spacing and hub offset are both different. The 10.25 has a much wider bearing spacing, and a longer hub.
I'd think the E-series brake setup would be the thing to look into, as Ford used a similar wheel end setup on the danas and sterlings, it may be close to fitting without any major work.
Thats the type of info Im looking for. The tsm kit looks to use the e350 rotor like all the other kits out there. What my thoughts are is to use just the ebrake portion from the superduty, or possibly the e350. If I can just redrill the backing plate to fit the early axle flange then the rest should be gravy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown349 View Post
This is the set-up from Ruff Stuff. I am wondering if the E350 emergency brake stuff would work for ya?

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...ket-p-342.html

"Ford Sterling Disc Brake Bracket, '84-'94

Here you are, an easy bolt on bracket for the Sterling axles! This one also uses the GM Caliper ('73-87 3/4 Ton 4x4 Front with the MKD153 pads) because it is 1/2 the cost of the Ford and way less expensive to put together than the wedge system. The rotor is a '96 Ford E350 Van Rear rotor (NAPA#4886799). These were a long time coming but way worth the wait. However there is of course an exception to the rule here. In '94 Ford changed the inner bearing width changed and to use this with the later years a 1/8" spacer would be required. All of our brake brackets are sold in pairs."
Im going to look into the e350 backing plate and see how much actually has to be trimmed off of the shoes.

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Originally Posted by GubNi View Post
Keep the caddy ebrake. Regardless of how heavy the truck is it should hold. If not you need to look at why and fix that problem. My guess is either the ebrake cable bracket that mounts to the caliper is bending or the ebrake cable is stretching.

Ok, let's assume you can't fix the problem with the ebrake caliper. Keep it on there so it passes state inspection. Then add two line locks. Put one on the front and one on the rear. If the ebrake caliper works kinda ok then just put one on the front to help out.
The caddy ebrake will not hold the truck. I have replaced the pads, this helped a little bit. I have replaced the cables which were stretched, but did not help at all. What it seems like is it holds ok. When the pads are brand new, it holds on a slight incline. The ebrake levers are not flexing in fact they go all the way to the stops on the calipers. I have tried adjusting the pads out by engaging the ebrake over and over just like you do in the stock application on the cadillac. It just doesnt hold. The internal drum setup is just a lot more effective than the caliper setup on a heavier vehicle. This isnt the first conversion we have had this problem with. This customer has a driveway that is less than a 5 degree slope and he has found his truck in the neighbors yard across the street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown349 View Post
The rotors have a small drum in them for an e-brake, perhaps the E350 e-brake set-up would work?

Blackbirds customs has a kit for the sterling which includes e-brakes, but I don't know what they are using. http://www.blackbirdscustomtrucks.com/index8.html#6str Probably Caddy stuff, but it might warrant a call.
Looking at the brackets in that kit they are GM brackets, that will use the Cadi or 4x4 calipers. Im gonna look into the bolt pattern on the e350 and the superduty to see how close it is to the early bolt pattern.
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Last edited by Madzooki; 11-15-2010 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Madzooki, Please let us know what you find-out about the E350 e-brakes.

I may have time to go look at the wrecking yard on Saturday.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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http://www.fordmann.com/F350.rear_disc_brakes.htm

Looks a little involved, but not horrible to do if you have the facilities to make a new flange for the axle to hold the backing plate on.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Just to throw out this piece of info if you end up trying to use the parking brake assembly off of the 10.5. I have a '04 10.5 under my 94 where a 10.25 used to be.

The parking brake cables from the applicable Superduty will work with the existing cable that runs from the pedal down the side of the frame. All I had to do was weld a small bracket to the frame to hold the new Superduty cables stationary. They hold my 7600lb rig on 38's fairly well. Best of luck, let me know if you need pictures of the cable setup, I can get them up here on the 23rd.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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more info please
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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YO madzooki

Check out this link from the Chevy section
/forum/chevy/933123-rear-caddy-calipers-help.html



Cliffs notes.....Retract the pistons, THEN adjust the E-brake, before applying any hydraulic pressure to the calipers. Should tighten up the E-brake function of the Eldorado calipers.
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I should have the truck in this week...I think. I will try that before doing anything else. When I put the pads on it last time I believe I tried that...but thats been over a year ago, so I dont remember for sure.

In the meantime I got a superduty into the shop yesterday and was able to make some preliminary measurements. The rotor between the 96 E350 and the 2000 or so superduty are identical except for the bolt pattern. The offset is the same everything. The only thing that appears to be different is the bolt pattern where the park brake assy bolts to the axle flange. Im gonna see if my buddy that own a 4x4 only shop here has a 10.5 and a 10.25 laying around. So I can start comparing the offset of the hubs and such.

Paul
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