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Old 12-09-2010, 08:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Np 205 vs Borg Warner 1356

Ok so i have a NP 205 out of a 79 half ton ford and a Borg Warner 1356 out of a 91 one ton.Got a project going and am wondering which is the better choice. Both are in decent shape. Is their a big advantage of one over the other? I know about the 205s legendary strength and gear driven reliability, but How does the 1356 compare? Enlighten me............
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The 1356 is TOUGH, has lower gearing and really doesn't break. The only issue they ever have is the pump keeper likes to rub through and the pump spins - if it has a ton of mileage on it, pop it apart and take a look, it's obvious what you are looking for.

1356 is chain driven, but geared lower. Really don't hear of them breaking.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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What is it going in? a late 70's frame is a little narrow for the 1356,
What the chain gets loose it'll ruba hole in the case,
Also the 1356 case is made of magnizeum, so it's pretty brittle (won't take a drop on a rock)
There are some 1356 cases that have a PTO port, those cases the front half is aluminum,
No twin sticking the 1356,
The gearing is better in the 1356 I believe the low range is 2.86:1

The 205 is legendary, but depending on application the 1356 aint bad at all.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The "plan" is an 81 shortbed f100,kingpin detroited 60 up front,sterling "miller" locked rear, mild 460 ( Holly Avenger carbed) C6 and between 40 and 44 inch tires.(Swamper 43 sx's seem to be calling me ) It will be multi use for trails,mud bogs that kind of chit. The guinea pig:
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'll throw a good hijack in here as well.

My '83 Bronco came with an NP208. There is local JY that has an abundance of 1356's. They go for about $100 a piece. What would you do?

'83 Bronco
300 I6
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33's may go 35's in the future
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Lots of sand dunes
Planning a SAS 44 in the future

Is there any issues mating the C6 to the 1356 if I decide to go with route?

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Old 12-09-2010, 12:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would go 1356 for the lower range and ease of junkyard parts availability. Do the simple pump mod, and it will last forever. If you can, go bw4407, talk about beef
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The 205 is legendary, but depending on application the 1356 aint bad at all.
Yup, better gearing aside, I really don't like chain driven cases for the reasons already given. I'd stick with the np250 since you have both.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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NP205, then add NP203 later.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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NP205, then add NP203 later....if you need the extra gearing
Fify. And, I heartily agree.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would go 1356 for the lower range and ease of junkyard parts availability. Do the simple pump mod, and it will last forever. If you can, go bw4407, talk about beef
Why, exactly? I've got two 4407's that BOTH exhibit symptoms of popping...all I can figure is chain slipping. I need to open one up and check it out and decide if I want to rebuild.

Who has actually been into a 4407? I've asked about them before here and no one really seems to know. I know they're heavy and huge (I've posted pics of size and weight) but that doesn't mean they're superior. I'm beginning to think they're the 5.4 Triton of 'cases.........huge but not necessarily better LOL
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Yup, better gearing aside, I really don't like chain driven cases for the reasons already given. I'd stick with the np250 since you have both.
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NP205, then add NP203 later.
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Fify. And, I heartily agree.
Couldn't agree more. I'm running a triple sticked ORD 203/205 setup an absolutely love it. Leave that chain driven crap alone.

Also I have ran a np 208 with fixed yokes front and rear and broke the thing in half. I also ran the borg warner unit and broke it.

Hp level was 450 to 500 range (460)
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd go with the Np 205, just my opinion.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you can live with 1.96 gearing or the price of a doubler, or like twin stick, go with the NP205. If you can shield the 1356 from the rocks and like the idea of a 2.7:1 low range, use the 1356 but open her up and inspect before using.

I would throw a used NP205 in my truck and not worry about it any day of the week.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Why, exactly? I've got two 4407's that BOTH exhibit symptoms of popping...all I can figure is chain slipping. I need to open one up and check it out and decide if I want to rebuild.

Who has actually been into a 4407? I've asked about them before here and no one really seems to know. I know they're heavy and huge (I've posted pics of size and weight) but that doesn't mean they're superior. I'm beginning to think they're the 5.4 Triton of 'cases.........huge but not necessarily better LOL
Wide Open Performance running 10.80's in their 7.3 OBS running a stock bw4407 and 4wd launches on slicks.

YouTube - Wide Open Performance 11.12 2007.wmv

I've been inside both of mine, only takes a few minutes to blast one apart after removing the rear yoke and a couple large snap rings. One had 240k on it with minimal chain slop, out of a snatch truck that saw plenty of abuse. The one currently in my truck has just over 160k on it. Both operate like new and I wouldn't be afraid to go another 100k without cracking them open.
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Old 12-10-2010, 05:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I've also been inside a couple 4407 cases, they are pretty beef for sure, large shaft/bearing size, fixed yokes & the chain is prett heafty as well.
The case is also aluminum, not mag, so a crack or hole can be welded relitively easily,

For the popping I would look at the enguagement collar for the 4wd, people will try to pull them into 4x4 with out the hubs locked while moving, this can round the dogs over a bit & caus it to jump under load,

If the chain was loose enough to jump a tooth you would hear a ton of noise just cruising down the road, as the chain eats through the case,
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Old 12-10-2010, 05:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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they are decent cases and can found with fixed rear output .
The 92-96 bronco had the fixed rear yoke 1356.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The 92-96 bronco had the fixed rear yoke 1356.
Nah, any Bronco w the 1356 which started showing up somewhere around '87. After the 208 in the early '80s there was briefly the 1345, mostly in '85 and '86.

In fact on more than one occasion you've been told it's not exclusively '92-96
/forum/ford/859298-bw1356-sye.html
/forum/ford/533374-bw1356-question.html

I don't understand the argument in the second thread about "common body style" because '87-91 is still very common too. We can make it easy tho: if it's a Bronco and it does NOT have sealed beam headlights, there's an exceptionally high probability it has a fixed yoke 1356.

However early 1356's had even less area to locate the pump arm, so one could argue the possibility of pump arm carnage is higher. In my case I'm only comparing '87 to 90, so sometime between there they gave the case more meat:
/forum/ford/746091-transfer-case-slips-stuck-if-4hi.html
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I've also been inside a couple 4407 cases, they are pretty beef for sure, large shaft/bearing size, fixed yokes & the chain is prett heafty as well.
The case is also aluminum, not mag, so a crack or hole can be welded relitively easily,

,
I know nothing about those cases, but I'd assume if they were aluminum, they'd be cast.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If you are planning any off the shelf aftermarket headers on that 460 beside maddog fenderwells, you're looking at running the 1356, with the 205, the collector and the driveshaft are going to want to live in the same place.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Nah, any Bronco w the 1356 which started showing up somewhere around '87. After the 208 in the early '80s there was briefly the 1345, mostly in '85 and '86. Blah blah blah
So am I wrong in posting that if you look for a 92-96 bronco you WILL find a fixed yoke 1356?
The fact is I never said you can only get this case from a 92-96, I'm simply stating that if you go to that year range you will get a fixed yoke 1356,
I'm not as familiar with the 87-91, & was unsure if the 208 or the 1345 was ever used in that era, rather than possibly being wrong about what case is used, I just don't mention it.

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I don't understand the argument in the second thread about "common body style" because '87-91 is still very common too.
There is no aurgument, It was not a statement of popularity, but the fact 92-96 are the same bodystyle.

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We can make it easy tho: if it's a Bronco and it does NOT have sealed beam headlights, there's an exceptionally high probability it has a fixed yoke 1356.
The Probability IS exeptionally high, your right, But I'm not wrong by saying if you go to a 92-96 you WILL get a fixed yoke 1356.




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I know nothing about those cases, but I'd assume if they were aluminum, they'd be cast.
Yes, the 4407 is a cast aluminum housing, & if you drop in on a rock it will break,
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:40 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Anyone have a length measurement between the 1356 and 205? We have a bronco with a 1356 and we are on case #2 and the chain is beginning to clap the case like the original one. We want to go 205, or even 203/205 but we aren't sure if it will fit in stock wheelbase without high zoot cv driveshafts...
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Anyone have a length measurement between the 1356 and 205? We have a bronco with a 1356 and we are on case #2 and the chain is beginning to clap the case like the original one. We want to go 205, or even 203/205 but we aren't sure if it will fit in stock wheelbase without high zoot cv driveshafts...
I just put in a 203-205 doubler and its only about 3-4" longer than the 1356. the 205 is probably a good 6-7" shorter than a 1356 so you would need new driveshafts.
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Looking back on my doubler setup, I should've gone with the 203/205 combo. The reason I chose to do a 1356/1356 is because they are a dime a dozen at the scrapyard, that's it.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Go 1356/205 and get interesting ratio splits instead of 2 x 2 with the 203.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Anyone still making a good kit? Seems like DD machine and Bohemouth are a joke..
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